Blazers threaten the rest of the NBA [merged]

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I think Portland was resigned to the fact that he was going to go back on the books (and planned accordingly), but once nba executives started gloating to national papers that Portland was going to intentionally get screwed they took off the gloves and said that isn't going to happen.

A lot of Portland fans are okay with Darius going back on the books in a legitimate circumstance. We were even resigned to him going back on because teams wanted to take a bite out of the Blazers cap space. When the executives started getting ballsy then Portland got ballsy back with that email - yet there is very little outrage about the statements from anonymous executives saying Portland will get screwed over intentionally. To me this shows that to other fans this isn't about Darius Miles to them - it's about Portland getting less cap space to become better and now that Portland is fighting back they're like NO DAMNIT DOUCHEBAGS!

After reading some reasoned posts on other boards, it appears to me that the luxury tax/redistribution implications of Miles going back on the books this season is the stronger case for the team and the reason for this email. The fact that Memphis, a team so cash-strapped that it traded a pick away in order to waive Shaun Livingston and get some cash, is involved in this should (and it appears did) send off fire-alarms at One Center Court. Memphis obviously needs every dollar, and an extra $300k of Paul Allen's money will help pay staff salaries.

I don't think it is about the cap space; I think it is about Paul Allen not wanting to hand over money to teams deliberating trying to cripple his asset. That is the definition of "bad faith" ethics.
 
Question. If the Blazers do choose to sue, couldn't the other owners have a vote to expel the Blazers owner from the league, forcing him to sell the team?
 
public posturing... whatever. More importantly he says the Cavs won't be signing him

STOMP


It reads like posturing for the unions to me. The rest of the owners I'm sure want to distance themselves from this. There is nothing to be gained by claiming that there are unwritten rules teams should live by when dealing with player contracts. And Gilbert's e-mail says we live by the collective bargaining agreement.... PERIOD. None of this ridiculous "fiduciary duty" stuff.
 
Nice typo. ;)

In addition, persons or entities involved in such conduct may be individually liable to the Portland Trail Blazers for tortuously interfering with the Portland Trail Blazers' contract rights and perspective economic opportunities.

Between "perspective" (which is a typo) and "fiduciary duty" (which doesn't appear to be legally applicable)... I wonder if a lawyer even wrote this letter.

If one did, I think that he or she should probably do a better job of reviewing it before it goes out. It's hella-sloppy.

Ed O.
 
Question. If the Blazers do choose to sue, couldn't the other owners have a vote to expel the Blazers owner from the league, forcing him to sell the team?

No, but they won't choose to sue. Again, a team could stand up and say "I did it to get Paul Allen's luxury tax payment" and there still would be nothing to sue over. It's empty sabre rattling.
 
And can one of the Blazers fans in opposition against this, why do the Blazers deserve to have Miles removed from their cap if he didn't suffer a career ending injury and that it was just a mis-diagnosis.

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Regardless, the NBA has pitted itself against the Blazers. The Blazers made a very stupid move.

Despite the Portland Trail Blazers’ efforts to dissuade teams from signing Darius Miles, the NBA sent out a memo on Friday morning that makes clear it won’t stand in the way of the free-agent forward’s return to the league.

The league notified teams on Friday that Miles had cleared waivers and is eligible to be signed to a standard contract. “Any such contract,” the league wrote in the email, “would be approved by the NBA.”

“What they’re saying is: ‘Don’t let that scare you off,’ ” said one Eastern Conference GM who had received the memo.

An NBA spokesman wasn’t immediately available to respond for comment or clarification regarding the memo.

The Memphis Grizzlies waived Miles on Tuesday after he played in two games for them. If Miles plays in two more games, the remaining $18 million of his contract will go back on the Trail Blazers’ salary cap.

Blazers president Larry Miller sent out an email to every NBA team threatening possible legal action should Miles be signed for the “purpose of adversely impacting the Portland Trail Blazers’ salary cap and tax positions.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...YF?slug=aw-nbamiles010809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
 
Between "perspective" (which is a typo) and "fiduciary duty" (which doesn't appear to be legally applicable)... I wonder if a lawyer even wrote this letter.

If one did, I think that he or she should probably do a better job of reviewing it before it goes out. It's hella-sloppy.

Ed O.


Thank you! Yes, a lawyer wrote it, and a lawyer wrote Gilbert's response (which I assume was on behalf of the owners).

It's funny, that is the kind of typo that a spell check won't catch....
 
Between "perspective" (which is a typo) and "fiduciary duty" (which doesn't appear to be legally applicable)... I wonder if a lawyer even wrote this letter.

If one did, I think that he or she should probably do a better job of reviewing it before it goes out. It's hella-sloppy.

Ed O.

Both are legally applicable and are the reason for the letter. And yes, "perspective" is the correct term in that instance.

LMAO
 
I am literally laughing at posters who think they know more than Paul Allen's attorneys.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/1/9/715182/darius-miles-situation-exp#11276911

In one of the sidebar discussions, someone questioned the use of the term “perspective” instead of “prospective”, and said it was the wrong word. It is the right word, and tells the whole story here (do you think that Paul Allen can’t hire lawyers who will know the right word?)

in perspective”

An object or person that is in perspective has the correct size and position in comparison with other things in the picture.

If a team plays Darius for two games for the purpose of screwing the Blazers, it will skew the “perspective economic opportunities” of the Blazers relative to the rest of the league, their partners in this joint venture.


This does not say, “Don’t sign and play Darius.” It says, “Don’t do what people have been saying in the media is going to be done, or you are going to pay.”

You want to know who David Stern is angry at? It isn’t the Blazers. It’s the stupid NBA execs who were talking about teams screwing the Blazers. I would bet money that David Stern saw that email and raised no substantive objection.

You think something stinks or smells bad? It isn’t the Blazers sending out an email. It’s teams setting out to rip off millions of dollars from the Blazers, their partners in a joint venture.
 
Both are legally applicable and are the reason for the letter. And yes, "perspective" is the correct term in that instance.

LMAO

You're kidding, right?

"Perspective" is not the right word choice. It's is PROSPECTIVE. Looking forward. Hypothetically. Perspective has to do with point of view. The two sound similar but mean entirely different things.

Defending the use of the word "perspective" is ridiculous. I hope you're kidding.

As for fiduciary duty, that is a very specific legal term that is normally applied to trustees or business executives regarding their obligations to assets entrusted to them on behalf of others. While it's conceivable that a special NBA partnership that happens to be called a "joint venture" contractually obligates NBA franchises to fiduciary duties, I find it unlikely.

Ed O.
 
I am literally laughing at posters who think they know more than Paul Allen's attorneys.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/1/9/715182/darius-miles-situation-exp#11276911

My guess is that somebody got all pissed off and went to the attorneys, and the attorneys did what attorneys do and took care of their clients. "Let's write a letter!" Some junior lawyer did 10 minutes of research on the fiduciary duty thing, and it sounded good at the time, so "whammo." Mistakes were made.

League attorney's apparently aren't that impressed. That is why they are telling teams not to worry about it. But they have to be a little bit nervous about the union response, or why the Gilbert e-mail?

My strong guess is that Allen's attorney's (or whomever) are sitting with egg all over their face right now, meekly defending themselves and feeling very exposed.
 
The league notified teams on Friday that Miles had cleared waivers and is eligible to be signed to a standard contract. “Any such contract,” the league wrote in the email, “would be approved by the NBA.”

What they’re saying is: ‘Don’t let that scare you off,’ ” said one Eastern Conference GM who had received the memo.

Um, not really. They are saying that Miles has cleared waivers (true) and that his contract would be approved (true, by CBA rules), and nothing more. It says nothing about protection from any "bad faith" action the Blazers may take in the future.

Some real Einsteins in the NBA, huh?
 
My guess is that somebody got all pissed off and went to the attorneys, and the attorneys did what attorneys do and took care of their clients. "Let's write a letter!" Some junior lawyer did 10 minutes of research on the fiduciary duty thing, and it sounded good at the time, so "whammo." Mistakes were made.

League attorney's apparently aren't that impressed. That is why they are telling teams not to worry about it. But they have to be a little bit nervous about the union response, or why the Gilbert e-mail?

My strong guess is that Allen's attorney's (or whomever) are sitting with egg all over their face right now, meekly defending themselves and feeling very exposed.

Where are they telling teams not to worry about it? All the NBA said is that Miles has cleared waivers and can be signed to a contract. That's not news.
 
I am literally laughing at posters who think they know more than Paul Allen's attorneys.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/1/9/715182/darius-miles-situation-exp#11276911

That's a lame attempt at covering up a typo.

"Perspective economic opportunities" is a new term, as far as I can tell. I went through law school without hearing of it in any class, including torts. I made it through my MBA program, including business law class, without ever hearing it.

A google search for the term returns nothing applicable to tort law. A search for an applicable adjective use of "perspective" turns up nothing.

Occam's Razor seems to indicate this is a typo, rather than a new definition of a standard word.

Ed o.
 
You're kidding, right?

"Perspective" is not the right word choice. It's is PROSPECTIVE. Looking forward. Hypothetically. Perspective has to do with point of view. The two sound similar but mean entirely different things.
Defending the use of the word "perspective" is ridiculous. I hope you're kidding.

As for fiduciary duty, that is a very specific legal term that is normally applied to trustees or business executives regarding their obligations to assets entrusted to them on behalf of others. While it's conceivable that a special NBA partnership that happens to be called a "joint venture" contractually obligates NBA franchises to fiduciary duties, I find it unlikely.

Ed O.

Again with the opinions, and "in perspective" fits. As for the fiduciary argument, if I am Paul Allen and Memphis is involved in a plan to take more of my money, damn straight I would be protecting my assets.

Regardless, that post offered a lot of insight, and after reading the micro-views here, the macro- approach that was taken makes a lot of sense to me.
 
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Again with the opinions, and "in perspective" fits. As for the fiduciary argument, if I am Paul Allen and Memphis is involved in a plan to take more of my money, damn straight I would be protecting my assets.

But "in perspective" was NOT USED.

The sentence read like this:

In addition, persons or entities involved in such conduct may be individually liable to the Portland Trail Blazers for tortuously interfering with the Portland Trail Blazers' contract rights and perspective economic opportunities.

There is no "in". "Perspective" is used as an ADJECTIVE.

Further, I just noticed that "tortious" is spelled wrong. Do you want to argue that it actually has to do with TORTURE, rather than TORTS? Or that they meant "sneakily interfering", rather than the actual legal claim, which is "tortious interference"?

I can't believe I'm having to point out typographical errors that are so clear.

Maybe the original story added the typographical errors? That would be sloppy journalism, but possible.

Ed O.
 
is there any new news? is there any reason to read this whole thread?
 
My guess is that somebody got all pissed off and went to the attorneys, and the attorneys did what attorneys do and took care of their clients. "Let's write a letter!" Some junior lawyer did 10 minutes of research on the fiduciary duty thing, and it sounded good at the time, so "whammo." Mistakes were made.

League attorney's apparently aren't that impressed. That is why they are telling teams not to worry about it. But they have to be a little bit nervous about the union response, or why the Gilbert e-mail?

My strong guess is that Allen's attorney's (or whomever) are sitting with egg all over their face right now, meekly defending themselves and feeling very exposed.
sure, one of the richest men alive hired lazy incompetent lawyers to do their jobs. Despite his many references to how important the 2009 capspace could be, lazy dumb KP never followed through making sure this situation was fully checked out. right... :rolleyes2:

more likely the league's interests and Portland's are not one in the same as evidenced by their statements. Any team that wants to offer DM a guaranteed deal for the year shouldn't fear a lawsuit... another 10 day deal could be more problematic

STOMP
 
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You're kidding, right?

"Perspective" is not the right word choice. It's is PROSPECTIVE. Looking forward. Hypothetically. Perspective has to do with point of view. The two sound similar but mean entirely different things.

Defending the use of the word "perspective" is ridiculous. I hope you're kidding.

As for fiduciary duty, that is a very specific legal term that is normally applied to trustees or business executives regarding their obligations to assets entrusted to them on behalf of others. While it's conceivable that a special NBA partnership that happens to be called a "joint venture" contractually obligates NBA franchises to fiduciary duties, I find it unlikely.

Ed O.

I've been waiting for someone to ask about the law here, but nobody has taken the bait! Here goes.

First of all, it is a much contested legal concept. A fiduciary duty is a kind of unwritten rule, and some courts, and many legal scholars, don't like to give a wide berth to unwritten rules. Nevertheless, there is a pretty strong tradition upholding fiduciary duties in joint ventures, in some circumstances.

The landmark case in this area is from the Cardoza court in NY in the 1920's. It has a juicy quote that is used a lot:

"Joint adventurers, like copartners, owe to one another, while the enterprise continues, the duty of the finest loyalty. Many forms of conduct permissible in a workaday world for those acting at arm's length, are forbidden to those bound by fiduciary ties. A trustee is held to something stricter than the morals of the market place. Not honesty alone, but the punctilio of an honor the most sensitive, is then the standard of behavior."

Subsequent courts have determined that joint venturer's do have duties of various kinds to partners (one duty, for example, is to avoid conflicts of interest with partners). They use several criteria to determine the nature and extent of the duties. Perhaps the most important of these is determining the nature of the business relationship between the partners. If it is a relationship characterized by contracts and arms length transactions, then they are less likely to say that unwritten rules apply.

In this case, there is no way that a court would believe that fiduciary duties should bind teams, when dealing with players. For starters, they are in an inherently conflicting situation to begin with. They are not trustees of each other. They are competitors. That's why they have contracts to bind them (the owners' agreement). And they are perfectly able to specify the rules of engagement in these contracts. No court is going to say that competitors who begin in situations of conflicting interests should somehow be bound by unwritten rules. Won't happen. Any court will say that they should be bound only to the rules they have agreed among themselves to be bound by.

Secondly, the existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes this even tougher for the Blazers. A court would never, in principle, say that unwritten rules should bind teams. This would open the doors for teams to do all kinds of things which the unions would think might violate the CBA. No, as long as there is a union around, then the written rules are the rules of the game. Period.

Net-net, there is no rule written which says that a team can't sign a player to screww over another team, and so there is no rule that will be enforced by any court. No chance. Nada. None. The Blazers can be pissed all they want, and their lawyers can write whatever they want, but it is hardly credible.
 
My question in all this:

Point #1: The Blazers are the property of the NBA. They are owned by Paul Allen, but the team still belongs to the NBA, correct? Paul couldn't take the team and move them to another league, or another city, or another country without the approval of the league, correct?

Point #2: How can one part of a corporation sue another part of the same corporation? It's almost like that joke commercial last year, where Coke wanted to sue Coke Zero or whatever it was.

Point #3: Can't the NBA step in and simply say, "no you're not."
 
I initially thought the same thing, but after sleeping on it, it occured to me: What if the Blazers have hard evidence of collusion or conspiracy? A recorded conversation, an inside source, information obtained through an investigator? I'm not saying they have definitive evidence, but if they do then there could be a lot more to this legal posturing than hot air and a bluff.

I have been really down on this move from a PR aspect...but this comment brings me back to the way I normally try to evaluate things I see from the team.

Essentially, they have A LOT more information available to them. Who know's if at some point during the season someone didn't email them a trade or move and implicitly threaten to sign Miles at some point...great point Niko...thanks for getting me off the ledge...
 
Net-net, there is no rule written which says that a team can't sign a player to screww over another team, and so there is no rule that will be enforced by any court. No chance. Nada. None. The Blazers can be pissed all they want, and their lawyers can write whatever they want, but it is hardly credible.

But there also isn't a rule that says the Blazers can't sign him and sit him...yet both of these situations seem to be in violation of the INTENT of the rule which is to objectively evaluate the severity and career "ending-ness" of an injury...
 
^I'm pretty sure they simply have info that some teams are considering signing Darius just to mess w/ Portland. And that was all the letter was talking about. You can't just send it to those specific teams though, you gotta send it to all of 'em.
 
this whole things makes it look like the Blazers are begging someone to take on Miles' contract. You think these team owners are going to take threats from other teams? I dont like this at all. I wasn't happy with the way Portland handled the Miles' situation to begin with and I'm certainly not happy this is now the major Blazer news the national media is talking about.
 
My question in all this:

Point #1: The Blazers are the property of the NBA. They are owned by Paul Allen, but the team still belongs to the NBA, correct? Paul couldn't take the team and move them to another league, or another city, or another country without the approval of the league, correct?

Point #2: How can one part of a corporation sue another part of the same corporation? It's almost like that joke commercial last year, where Coke wanted to sue Coke Zero or whatever it was.

Point #3: Can't the NBA step in and simply say, "no you're not."

Good questions:

1) Not "owned" by the NBA. They are independent businesses bought from the NBA - the term that gets used is "franchise," but most are corporations or limited partnerships. The association of the teams and the NBA is governed by an extensive partnership agreement that the owners have with one another. So, no, Paul Allen owns the team.

2) Hee hee! But they can. It would be more like Coke and Pepsi buy a plant together to make syrup, and Coke sues Pepsi over something.

3) Interesting question. That is why they said "examining legal options." These things quickly turn into a mess. It's doubtful that the NBA could stop the suit (you'd have to see the owners' agreement), but there could be counter suits and fines, etc.. There also may be clauses in the agreement which require arbitration.
 
What I really do not understand and am baffled why NO MAJOR MEDIA outlet is acknowledging is that Miles was evaluated by an INDEPENDENT NBA doctor mutually agreed upon by the players union deeming Miles injury career ending. Why is it that we are liable and why should we pay for another doctors and league mistake if they felt he could not play? Secondly, we let Miles go with the assumption that his injuries were to severe to play, if he can play (which he was deemed not able to) then he should be the property of the Trailblazers (even though we do not want him). Seems like we are being screwed by the NBA, CBA, Miles and teams around the league. If he wants to play so damn badly why cant he be forced to sign an injury waiver, voiding his contract and he then has to go out and earn his money if he thinks he is so healthy to play.
 
Good questions:

1) Not "owned" by the NBA. They are independent businesses bought from the NBA - the term that gets used is "franchise," but most are corporations or limited partnerships. The association of the teams and the NBA is governed by an extensive partnership agreement that the owners have with one another. So, no, Paul Allen owns the team.

2) Hee hee! But they can. It would be more like Coke and Pepsi buy a plant together to make syrup, and Coke sues Pepsi over something.

3) Interesting question. That is why they said "examining legal options." These things quickly turn into a mess. It's doubtful that the NBA could stop the suit (you'd have to see the owners' agreement), but there could be counter suits and fines, etc.. There also may be clauses in the agreement which require arbitration.

But if they're franchises, wouldn't it be more like one McDonalds filing suit against another McDonalds? Couldn't corporate step in?
 
I also want to add that while I feel the same way about this whole Miles situation as the Blazers do, I think they went out with guns blazing and handled the situation rather poorly. I think they could of been more discrete and their real beef should be with the NBA (since their independent doctor agreed with our prognosis). Why should we be penalized for their (the NBA's) findings? Doesn't seem right to me and why is no one mentioning that in the paper, on tv, ect....
 
Secondly, we let Miles go with the assumption that his injuries were to severe to play, if he can play (which he was deemed not able to) then he should be the property of the Trailblazers (even though we do not want him).

That makes a lot of sense to me. With the system in force at the time, he was made a free agent. However, it's turned out to be a pretty weak system. The NBA should probably go back and look at this one, so their owners don't fight over things like this. Nothing to do about this though. The Blazers screwed themselves over by sending around baseless threats. Now, they are best served if somebody picks Miles up and everyone moves on.

I'm out. Good luck fellas.
 
But if they're franchises, wouldn't it be more like one McDonalds filing suit against another McDonalds? Couldn't corporate step in?


Sure, well, one McDonalds franchisee could sue another McDonald's franchisee. (One company owned McDonalds couldn't sue another company owned, but, again, the NBA does not own its teams.)

Could corporate step in if two franchisees had a dispute? Probably not, depending on the nature of the suit. If it had nothing to do with corporate, it would be two independent businesses suing each other. None of corporate's business.

Anyway, the NBA is not like corporate. The NBA is not a separate entity, like a McDonalds. The league level is a device created by the ownership agreement that the owners use to pursue their common interests. The owners apparently give a lot of power to the league, but unless there is something in the agreement that says that David Stern gets to be judge and jury for these types of things, then it's between the two owners.

Over and out.
 
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