Blazers v. Clips game thread (on TNT) 1/20

[Pinwheel1]

LMA will make it. The coaches could give a shit about Love and Griffin. They tend to reward the more established players.
Stern would care about marketing. The coaches know who deserve it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

LMA will make it. The coaches could give a shit about Love and Griffin. They tend to reward the more established players.
Stern would care about marketing. The coaches know who deserve it.

I think you overestimate the "established player" thing and underestimate just how huge the numbers Love and Griffin have been putting up since the beginning of the season. LMA's "quiet" first month and a half is really going to weigh him down; this production needed to start back in early November.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think you overestimate the "established player" thing and underestimate just how huge the numbers Love and Griffin have been putting up since the beginning of the season. LMA's "quiet" first month and a half is really going to weigh him down; this production needed to start back in early November.

I think you over estimate the numbers and under estimate the coaches ability to know who is helping his team win more and also who is making his teammates play better, and not who will be a star in the future. If I am a coach I want to keep the young bucks down a little longer.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think you over estimate the numbers and under estimate the coaches ability to know who is helping his team win more and also who is making his teammates play better, and not who will be a star in the future. If I am a coach I want to keep the young bucks down a little longer.

Say what? Whatever their rationale, I highly doubt this has anything to do with the decision making process.

 

[mook]

[video=youtube;IBUD2Ol2drE]

Lol. I was actually humming that tune to myself while watching the replay during the game.

Usually when you shoot over somebody it's not your own teammate rolling around on the floor.

 

[illmatic99]

The funniest part of that sequence was Wes seemingly taking a charge. On offense.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

His awful shooting also probably had quite a lot to do with that. 6-17 for an "inside" player? Yeesh.

You're right. Their formula is spelled out at the bottom of the page. 11 Missed shots reduce the score much more than 5 turnovers does.

Using some points+rebounds+assists metric would be wildly simplistic in assessing how the two players did. At the very least, shooting percentage and turnovers should be considered.

Which is why I kind of like their simple system. BTW, just for fun, I applied their formula to each players full season stats so far. LA is over 150 "rating points" behind Griffin on the year, and more than 230 behind Love. Per game, LA is averaging a little over 39, while the other two are each right around 45.

But again, much like PER, it doesn't measure defense, so

 

[Pinwheel1]

Say what? Whatever their rationale, I highly doubt this has anything to do with the decision making process.

Right and Jordan didn't get intentionally "freezed out" in his his first allstar game by Thomas and Ewing who wanted to make a point. I think opposing coaches will understand that Griffin will be an allstar for many years. If the decision is close, give the nod to the older player. Blake has enough hype being in LA. LMA is a better all around player right now and deserves it over Blake and Love.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

[video=youtube;IBUD2Ol2drE]

BTW, the name of the song (in case anyone cares) is "Yakety Sax"--it's one of Jim Rome's favorites. Reminds me of the time that Blake Griffin actually had one of his buddies play that song in the background while he was doing a Rome show interview last year, presumably as an indicator that he knew the show. It was actually pretty cool.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Right and Jordan didn't get intentionally "freezed out" in his his first allstar game by Thomas and Ewing who wanted to make a point. I think opposing coaches will understand that Griffin will be an allstar for many years. If the decision is close, give the nod to the older player. Blake has enough hype being in LA. LMA is a better all around player right now and deserves it over Blake and Love.

I think the fact that it's in LA, as is Blake, will ensure that if he doesn't get voted in by the coaches, he will be added to the team by David Stern as Yao's replacement. I would be absolutely shocked if Griffin didn't make the all-star team.

 

[Pinwheel1]

BTW, the name of the song (in case anyone cares) is "Yakety Sax"--it's one of Jim Rome's favorites. Reminds me of the time that Blake Griffin actually had one of his buddies play that song in the background while he was doing a Rome show interview last year, presumably as an indicator that he knew the show. It was actually pretty cool.

For some of us old fucks, it was the theme song to the Benny Hill show.

 

[Minstrel]

Which is why I kind of like their simple system. BTW, just for fun, I applied their formula to each players full season stats so far. LA is over 150 "rating points" behind Griffin on the year, and more than 230 behind Love. Per game, LA is averaging a little over 39, while the other two are each right around 45.

But again, much like PER, it doesn't measure defense, so

Just to be clear, I wasn't commenting on the system in the link when I said "wildly simplistic." I was referring to some comment earlier in the thread that had Blake "ahead" of Aldridge when adding up points/rebounds/assists but the commentator "would take the win" as if that's the comfort in Blake besting Aldridge. I thought that was a little silly without taking into account things like shooting and turnovers.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think the fact that it's in LA, as is Blake, will ensure that if he doesn't get voted in by the coaches, he will be added to the team by David Stern as Yao's replacement. I would be absolutely shocked if Griffin didn't make the all-star team.

No doubt Stern will add him.

 

[Minstrel]

Right and Jordan didn't get intentionally "freezed out" in his his first allstar game by Thomas and Ewing who wanted to make a point.

Those were players punishing a guy who they felt was arrogant or somesuch. I don't think coaches care for trying to "punish" Blake for being young or put "the young buck" in his place, or any such thing. I think they select based on merit. Of course, since their job is not to evaluate the entire seasons of All Star hopefuls, I'm sure that their judgments are far from infallible and they have the normal perceptual biases (exaggerating in their own minds how players did against their teams or on national games that they watched, etc). I just doubt they have some systematic desire to reward "established players" over young players.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Those were players punishing a guy who they felt was arrogant or somesuch. I don't think coaches care for trying to "punish" Blake for being young or put "the young buck" in his place, or any such thing. I think they select based on merit. Of course, since their job is not to evaluate the entire seasons of All Star hopefuls, I'm sure that their judgments are far from infallible and they have the normal perceptual biases (exaggerating in their own minds how players did against their teams or on national games that they watched, etc). I just doubt they have some systematic desire to reward "established players" over young players.

i would like to see Phil Jackson's vote.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

For some of us old fucks, it was the theme song to the Benny Hill show.

Many of us young pups are aware of that as well. We also know that dude was a total perv. Don't have to be ancient to know what happened before MTV existed.

 

[Nikolokolus]

i would like to see Phil Jackson's vote.

You mean before or after the Clippers just beat his team a few days ago when Griffin dropped 18 and 15 on them? (and did most of his damage late).

 

[MIXUM]

lol... and what better opponent to have a nutty play then the clippers!!!

 

[KingSpeed]

His awful shooting also probably had quite a lot to do with that. 6-17 for an "inside" player? Yeesh.

Using some points+rebounds+assists metric would be wildly simplistic in assessing how the two players did. At the very least, shooting percentage and turnovers should be considered.

Griffin's a hell of a player, though. Not a go-to type of offensive player yet. He's more like a young Shawn Kemp. Elite rebounder and finisher, not a very good player at getting his own shot.

Shawn Kemp was never this good. At any point in his career. Look up the numbers. Griffin's current stats are way better than Kemp's best season. Tonight was a bad game for Griffin. He's better at getting his own shot than you think. You don't score 47 points in a game without being able to create some of your own offense. That's the most points ANY player in the NBA has scored in a single game this season.

 

[crowTrobot]

Don't have to be ancient to know what happened before MTV existed.

define ancient

 

[Pinwheel1]

You mean before or after the Clippers just beat his team a few days ago when Griffin dropped 18 and 15 on them? (and did most of his damage late).

After. He is already rubbing the Lakers the wrong way. I am not saying he does not deserve to be in the allstar game. I am saying LMA equally does too. So who do you vote for? I can see him voting for LMA just as easy (if not more) than a player who is stealing some of the spotlight away from the Lakers here in LA.

 

[Nikolokolus]

After. He is already rubbing the Lakers the wrong way. I am not saying he does not deserve to be in the allstar game. I am saying LMA equally does too. So who do you vote for? I can see him voting for LMA just as easy (if not more) than a player who is stealing some of the spotlight away from the Lakers here in LA.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Phil Jackson doesn't really give a shit about Griffin "stealing" the spotlight from the Lakers ... nor do most (any?) coaches cast their votes out of spite.

 

[maxiep]

I would argue that it wasn't that Griffin had a "bad" game, (he certainly got his numbers, but was inefficient in obtaining them) but that the gameplan to defend him was terrific and well-executed. Nate and the coaching staff deserve some credit. A lot of teams would have packed it in at 16-2.

 

[THE HCP]

He had a great game with what, 20/18......... but he had to work his ass off to get that 20 and I haven't looked at a box score, but I think he has a bunch of free throws. He struggles with long defenders like LA. The first half against the Lakers the other night Gasol made him go like 1/ for something. That is why I didn't think he would make it in the league, but he has proved me wrong.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Phil Jackson doesn't really give a shit about Griffin "stealing" the spotlight from the Lakers ... nor do most (any?) coaches cast their votes out of spite.

OK so when you have 5-7 players at the same position that are worthy, what sways a coach to choose one over the others.
PTs? FG%?, W/L's?, Defense? Who makes their teammates better? This is a close call. I think it often gets political and/or personal when it is that close of a decision. Human nature says you choose who you like better at that moment.

 

[illmatic99]

I do think they give some weight to how their teams handled the player, and how that player affected their team's defense. I remember Sloan mentioning a few years ago that Roy's performance against Utah made him vote for Brandon. If that's the case around the league, then I think Aldridge can count on a vote from Sloan, Carlisle, Gentry, Adelman, Rambis, and VDN.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4130/gamelog;_ylt=AuSJWwlXaoeaM8F2XaXdZXZUPaB4