Blazers vs. Minnesota Game Thread

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KingSpeed said:
who knows?
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Well, in his hugely limited action, he looked better than Howard has looked at any time this year. He has more hustle and more talent at this point, and he should be out there instead of Howard.
 
B-Roy said:
True, but can he play any worse than Howard?
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I was at the game. Cunningham is actually better than I thought he would be. quicker, smarter on D and looked perfectly comfortable taking his 18 foot shots.

Will he play well against front-line NBA 3s and 4s? Who knows, but there's no way he should be behind Howard in the rotation. Juwan's a helluva nice guy and was once a good player, but he really is done.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I was at the game. Cunningham is actually better than I thought he would be. quicker, smarter on D and looked perfectly comfortable taking his 18 foot shots.

Will he play well against front-line NBA 3s and 4s? Who knows, but there's no way he should be behind Howard in the rotation. Juwan's a helluva nice guy and was once a good player, but he really is done.
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He looked like he had a little gas left in the preseason games, but has looked completely washed up since. Since DC has a jumper, I'd like to see him get some of those minutes, but he's got to show some rebounding (at least being able to box out back up 4's), too.
 
FeloniusThunk said:
He looked like he had a little gas left in the preseason games, but has looked completely washed up since. Since DC has a jumper, I'd like to see him get some of those minutes, but he's got to show some rebounding (at least being able to box out back up 4's), too.
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He was actually chasing around small forwards tonight more than 4s so he tended to be away from the boards. As for his ability to box out I didn't really watch that too much, but he's very smart about the way he plays defense in the post and at the elbows ... he's a player.
 
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_minnesota.html

Some concerning things in the postgame wrap up...

The team's heart and soul returned to his rightful spot -- at the point -- where he could put his finger on the pulse of the team without having to fight Miller for the ball.

"There's only one ball," McMillan said before the game, although he wasn't talking specifically about Miller and Roy.

For all the simmering issues for the Blazers this season -- the sudden lack of depth at forward, the foul trouble of Greg Oden and LaMarcus Aldridge, the shooting of Blake, the rash of turnovers and the absence of Webster -- at the forefront of the team's unsettled offensive play has been the dynamic between Roy and Miller.

Both want, and both need, the ball. When they played together, it was often a power struggle. Or as McMillan described it, it was as if two fists were colliding.
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Continued

However, both McMillan and Roy acknowledged that the pairing of Roy and Miller on the same unit was not working, primarily because it was detracting from Roy's game.

"I feel like we tried it (the three-guard lineup), and you could say it worked at times, but me sacrificing hurt the team, so it should get back to me playing full-out and getting some other guys in other areas to sacrifice a little bit," Roy said.

Privately, Roy has been conflicted. He was never happy playing small forward -- particularly on offense -- but he put on his best face for the team. But as a star, and the leader of the team, he felt like he had too much to offer that wasn't being utilized. In turn, his unrest and reduced production was having an effect on the team.

"This team is going to go off my pulse," Roy said. "Even if I'm smiling and trying to make it work, if I seem like I'm not totally comfortable, then Martell won't be. And Rudy (Fernandez) will look like he's in a funk. And L.A. (Aldridge) will look like he's in a funk. They have been playing with me for a couple years and if I'm going well, they have more confidence."
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I don't really know what to think of this...
 
Privately, Roy has been conflicted. He was never happy playing small forward -- particularly on offense -- but he put on his best face for the team. But as a star, and the leader of the team, he felt like he had too much to offer that wasn't being utilized. In turn, his unrest and reduced production was having an effect on the team.
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I find this a funny statement to make for an article.
 
B-Roy said:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_minnesota.html

Some concerning things in the postgame wrap up...



Continued



I don't really know what to think of this...
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Yeah, i just read that and it definitely raised my eyebrows. So this means that Roy (and in extension, Miller) cannot play with another ball-dominant player? He can't change or alter his style of play? Really??

And Roy feels that when he was trying to sacrifice for the good of the team, he was in actuality hurting the team? I don't know about that. We won quite a few games (including probably the most impressive win of this young season so far against the Spurs) with Roy starting at the 3 spot. And if playing the SF role was what was hurting Roy's game, then why did tonight's game, where he was back to his SG role, look statistically like he was playing the SF position again. Is there that big of a difference in his impact whether he is playing the 3 or the 2?

I honestly don't know what to think about Roy's quotes. Is he being a bit selfish or is he correct in his assumptions? I don't want to hate on the guy- he's been a class act ever since he's arrived and has been a fantastic player for us, giving us hope when we were the dregs of the NBA. This is the first time I have questioned his motives. IMHO, the quotes in the article make him look kind of selfish, or maybe I'm just inferring too much. Maybe the quotes were taken out of context. And maybe Roy is correct- our team will be better off in the long run with the ball back in Roy's hand and Roy back at the SG spot.
 
B-Roy said:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_minnesota.html

Some concerning things in the postgame wrap up...

I don't really know what to think of this...
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I do. It means that in three weeks KP will probably be fielding offers for Miller so he can find him a new home. I'm not saying this signing couldn't have worked, I'm not saying Miller is a bad guy, or that Roy is being selfish. What I am saying is that the signing of Miller has worked out kind of like that blind date hookup where the girl was actually kind of hot, but you realized that for whatever reason you have zero chemistry and she kisses weird. "No hard feelings, it's not you, it's me." Move on.

For better or worse, Brandon is this team's star player and he has looked increasingly uncomfortable on the court (and ineffective) and no matter what Miller might have been able to do for LaMarcus, Greg and the rest of the team if he can't make it work with the team's best player and the guy making 75 million bucks it's probably best to cut your losses and do something different.

Miller isn't making an extremely bloated contract given his past production,so he should be somewhat easy to move and if he goes to the right kind of team (one that wants to run) he'll probably have himself a very nice year or two left in the league.

As for being worried about the backup point guard spot behind Brandon if/when Miller is traded, after watching Bayless in person I can say that he's almost starting to look like a real point when he's on the floor. He had some errant passes off of dribble penetration, but watching them develop they tended to look like he had completely caught his teammates flat-footed because they were expecting him to finish and not to pass. Guys also clanked a couple of shots off the rim that were wide open after receiving passes from Jerryd that would have otherwise been registered as assists. By the end of the year I think he's got a shot at being a regular contributor.
 
Darkwebs said:
And Roy feels that when he was trying to sacrifice for the good of the team, he was in actuality hurting the team? I don't know about that. We won quite a few games (including probably the most impressive win of this young season so far against the Spurs) with Roy starting at the 3 spot. And if playing the SF role was what was hurting Roy's game, then why did tonight's game, where he was back to his SG role, look statistically like he was playing the SF position again. Is there that big of a difference in his impact whether he is playing the 3 or the 2?
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That's the only part I support actually. Him playing the SF position in the long run is not good for him or the team. BUT, the fact that he and Nate basically shot down playing with Miller is concerning. I don't know, but it seems like this team is gearing for a trade that ships Andre Miller out, assuming though, that KP is willing to make a midseason trade.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I do. It means that in three weeks KP will probably be fielding offers for Miller so he can find him a new home. I'm not saying this signing couldn't have worked, I'm not saying Miller is a bad guy, or that Roy is being selfish. What I am saying is that the signing of Miller has worked out kind of like that blind date hookup where the girl was actually kind of hot, but you realized that for whatever reason you have zero chemistry and she kisses weird. "No hard feelings, it's not you, it's me." Move on.
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I wonder who we could get for Andre? Or rather, what does the team WANT for Andre? A good backup 4 would be nice, but it's probably not worth Andre. You could bring in a star SF who uses the ball a lot, although that might piss off Roy. As much as I hate his contract, (and him), I still think Hedo would have worked on this team, although we wouldn't trade to get him for obvious reasons.
 
Wow. I didn't think Roy's ego was this inflated.

Instead of even trying out a backcourt of Miller and Roy without Nate's loverboy Blake in there, both Roy and Nate are giving up.

Didn't we see this "Roy at point" garbage fail miserably in the playoffs? Wasn't the whole point of signing Miller about getting Roy some respite from handling the ball so much? Miller is a FAR, FAR better PG than Blake will ever be, and Roy want to compromise the talent difference, because he thinks his ego not being satisfied will have an adverse impact on the rest of the team. That is just mind boggling to me. And what's worse, Nate doesn't have the balls to get that ego in check even if it would ultimately result in the betterment of the team. This is a slap in the face of an accomplished PG in Miller, and also in the face of KP who bent backwards trying to convince us that Miller was the right guy.

The most telling quote from that piece: "We went 7-2," Miller said. "So I don't think that's a problem. And over half of the games were on the road. I'm not going to look at it that way. We won games."

And yet, Roy didn't approve.

So much from that article rubs me the wrong way, and leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth even after a good win.
 
I think it's ridiculous for people to be concerned about Roy after this. IMO, he handled this exactly as it should. At least to me, it was obvious that the team was being hurt by Brandon playing out of position, and the addition of Miller into the starting lineup wasn't enough to offset it. Miller just hasn't been playing that well. Honestly, I wouldn't bat an eye if Miller was traded.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Wow. I didn't think Roy's ego was this inflated.

Instead of even trying out a backcourt of Miller and Roy without Nate's loverboy Blake in there, both Roy and Nate are giving up.

Didn't we see this "Roy at point" garbage fail miserably in the playoffs? Wasn't the whole point of signing Miller about getting Roy some respite from handling the ball so much? Miller is a FAR, FAR better PG than Blake will ever be, and Roy want to compromise the talent difference, because he thinks his ego not being satisfied will have an adverse impact on the rest of the team. That is just mind boggling to me. And what's worse, Nate doesn't have the balls to get that ego in check even if it would ultimately result in the betterment of the team. This is a slap in the face of an accomplished PG in Miller, and also in the face of KP who bent backwards trying to convince us that Miller was the right guy.

The most telling quote from that piece: "We went 7-2," Miller said. "So I don't think that's a problem. And over half of the games were on the road. I'm not going to look at it that way. We won games."

And yet, Roy didn't approve.

So much from that article rubs me the wrong way, and leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth even after a good win.
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I do understand your point, but as the teams only star, I also see Roy's point. For gods sakes he has a 25.7 USG% whereas most of the stars in the league are 30+. Melo is at 35.7!
 
VanillaGorilla said:
At least to me, it was obvious that the team was being hurt by Brandon playing out of position, and the addition of Miller into the starting lineup wasn't enough to offset it. Miller just hasn't been playing that well. Honestly, I wouldn't bat an eye if Miller was traded.
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There are two issues here, and I'm not sure they're related that much with one another.

Roy being played out of position is all on Nate. He was too scared to play Roy with Miller in the backcourt, like he should have from the beginning of preseason.

Roy handling the ball for less than the majority of the time is an adjustment Roy should have made before giving up so quickly.
 
yuyuza1 said:
There are two issues here, and I'm not sure they're related that much with one another.

Roy being played out of position is all on Nate. He was too scared to play Roy with Miller in the backcourt, like he should have from the beginning of preseason.

Roy handling the ball for less than the majority of the time is an adjustment Roy should have made before giving up so quickly.
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this!:cheers::cheers:
 
yuyuza1 said:
There are two issues here, and I'm not sure they're related that much with one another.

Roy being played out of position is all on Nate. He was too scared to play Roy with Miller in the backcourt, like he should have from the beginning of preseason.

Roy handling the ball for less than the majority of the time is an adjustment Roy should have made before giving up so quickly.
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The only way the Miller-Roy backcourt could have worked is if this team played the way Miller and Iguodala played in Philly, that means a running team that uses the break the same way that Nate uses the iso. It became pretty evident to me that for whatever reason (inability, unwillingness, whatever) Roy is not a runner, it's just not in his mental makeup.

I was a big fan of signing Miller and I had high hopes for it eventually being a success, but much of that hope was predicated on the Blazers playing uptempo ball. Generating stops with D and using long outlet passes from rebounders to streaking guards and wings for easies at the other end. Whether that isn't happening because of coaching, personnel or some other intangible undefinable factor, it remains that this team is a half-court, grind it out offense for as long as Nate is the coach and Brandon is the team's max contract guy.

Miller-Roy in the half-court is mostly an abomination. Brandon (and Greg) both need shooters to spread out a defense to the point where both of them can either get into the paint to score or to pass to the open shooter on the wings or in the corner, or to even dump it to a cutter. Miller was mostly spotting up as a strongside shooter from the deep corner whenever Brandon handled the ball and that is a poor use of Miller on the basketball court, conversely Brandon was taking 15-20% more long jumpers so far this season which has severely depressed his shooting percentages from a year ago and he's just not a good catch and shoot guard, no matter how much I want him to be.

For better or worse Brandon is the guy this team is built around and the only thing for it is to ride the him as far as he can take you. I think the writing is on the wall; the Miller experiment just didn't work, and I don't really see it being the fault of anyone in particular, it's just a bad fit. Just like Shaq in Phoenix completely marginalized Amare' Stoudemire last year, arguably the Suns most effective player.

On a somewhat positive note, I thought the team did a pretty decent job of getting Oden the ball in a position where he could do something with it, and if Brandon is going to show a commitment to getting him involved in the offense and is OK at it, then the Miller "debacle" (for lack of a better word) bothers me a bit less.
 
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yuyuza1 said:
Wow. I didn't think Roy's ego was this inflated.

Instead of even trying out a backcourt of Miller and Roy without Nate's loverboy Blake in there, both Roy and Nate are giving up.

Didn't we see this "Roy at point" garbage fail miserably in the playoffs? Wasn't the whole point of signing Miller about getting Roy some respite from handling the ball so much? Miller is a FAR, FAR better PG than Blake will ever be, and Roy want to compromise the talent difference, because he thinks his ego not being satisfied will have an adverse impact on the rest of the team. That is just mind boggling to me. And what's worse, Nate doesn't have the balls to get that ego in check even if it would ultimately result in the betterment of the team. This is a slap in the face of an accomplished PG in Miller, and also in the face of KP who bent backwards trying to convince us that Miller was the right guy.

The most telling quote from that piece: "We went 7-2," Miller said. "So I don't think that's a problem. And over half of the games were on the road. I'm not going to look at it that way. We won games."

And yet, Roy didn't approve.

So much from that article rubs me the wrong way, and leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth even after a good win.
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Yeah, I just don't understand why they don't even try out this line-up (Miller & Roy as the guards and Webster as the SF) in the regular season? Wouldn't that be the most logical line-up change to do next?

1. Opening night line-up: Blake, Roy, Webster, Aldridge, Oden. We play this line-up through the 5th game of the season. Nate doesn't like what he sees/feels something is wrong with the line-up, so he...
2. Changes line-up to Blake, Miller, Roy, Aldridge, Oden. We have a six-game winning streak, and then play some uninspired ball the next 3 games. So Nate says, we're done with this line up. And then...
3. Changes back to the opening line up??

Wouldn't that present the same problems that we had in that first 5 games of the season, the same problems that originally necessitated the change in the starting line-up? I don't follow the logic of this decision without giving the Miller-Roy backcourt a try. Perhaps, Nate has tried it in practice and doesn't feel like it works better than the first 2 line-ups that he's tried this season. It's strange that Nate won't even consider trying to play a Miller-Roy backcourt. :dunno:
 
so were stuck with blake the rest of his career? whos gonna be able to co-exist with roy? bayless?
 
oldmangrouch said:
All I can say is, Roy better back it up. He got his way, and the burden is on him to prove he was right.
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That's how I see it too. Roy has got the superstar contract, and apparently he now has the superstar ego, so I guess it's all up to him to provide the superstar performance. Hope his "supporting cast" is good with that.

barfo
 
Darkwebs said:
Yeah, I just don't understand why they don't even try out this line-up (Miller & Roy as the guards and Webster as the SF) in the regular season? Wouldn't that be the most logical line-up change to do next?

1. Opening night line-up: Blake, Roy, Webster, Aldridge, Oden. We play this line-up through the 5th game of the season. Nate doesn't like what he sees/feels something is wrong with the line-up, so he...
2. Changes line-up to Blake, Miller, Roy, Aldridge, Oden. We have a six-game winning streak, and then play some uninspired ball the next 3 games. So Nate says, we're done with this line up. And then...
3. Changes back to the opening line up??

Wouldn't that present the same problems that we had in that first 5 games of the season, the same problems that originally necessitated the change in the starting line-up? I don't follow the logic of this decision without giving the Miller-Roy backcourt a try. Perhaps, Nate has tried it in practice and doesn't feel like it works better than the first 2 line-ups that he's tried this season. It's strange that Nate won't even consider trying to play a Miller-Roy backcourt. :dunno:
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That seems odd to me too. Why not try Miller as the starting pg with Roy the sg? Miller can hit a shot, does it have to be a 3 pointer shot to clear space? But now that Blake learn from Miller to get the ball to Oden this lineup might work better than it did originally.

Also perhaps the problem isn't so much Roy playing sf, it's other teams double and triple teaming him which won't change with him playing sg. Hopefully Blake and Webster continues to hit 3s because once they don't we'll struggle again.
 
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mgb said:
That seems odd to me too. Why not try Miller as the starting pg with Roy the sg? Miller can hit a shot, does it have to be a 3 pointer shot to clear space? But now that Blake learn from Miller to get the ball to Oden this lineup might work better than it did originally.

Also perhaps the problem isn't so much Roy playing sf, it's other teams double and triple teaming him which won't change with him playing sg. Hopefully Blake and Webster continues to hit 3s because once they don't we'll struggle again.
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Hey mgb, did you get to go to the game last night? Did you get to see the game?

I ask because I did not, and I value your opinion. In your mind was the fact that Blake and Web finally started making the open threes the primarily reason the team did so well. Did Roy really do that much better than before? It sounds to me even though I did not get to see the game, only listen to Wheels, that maybe it had little to do with Roy and a whole lot more with those two hitting shots for a change. Also sounds like Roy may not want to adjust for the team as much as some think and may just be comfortable with certain guys and his style of ball. If the latter is true, then can this team be any better than last year?
 
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