Blazers want to bring Pritchard back now?

[BrianFromWA]

just b/c it was on the radio doesn't mean there's a "link".

 

[THE HCP]

Vance has no idea what he's talking about!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wow. Anyone just hear Kenny Vance on radio?

He said the Pacers were interested in getting KP, and their owner called PA for info regarding Pritch, and PA "lambasted KP," making the Pacers look elsewhere.

WTF happened?

I thought we covered this last summer? The Legarrie-Pritch-Penn coup seems to be the predominant theory no?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Vance has no idea what he's talking about!

On a serious note, from the looks of his tweet, lambasting sounds exactly like what he might say to Indiana. I have no idea if he did, or even if Vance said that because there is no link to prove it

 

[Mediocre Man]

I thought we covered this last summer? The Legarrie-Pritch-Penn coup seems to be the predominant theory no?

The story they released, yes.

 

[THE HCP]

On a serious note, from the looks of his tweet, lambasting sounds exactly like what he might say to Indiana. I have no idea if he did, or even if Vance said that because there is no link to prove it

There is so much of this,"My inside source told me!" bullshit in the media. Gotta drop the story first type shit. Who knows, the way things are going around this place, Paul might just have done that.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

That was one hell of a juicy rumor Canzano was throwing fire on . . . imagine how long we could have run with this all based on some no credit source and Canzano once again running with nothing. Maybe it was KP's new agent who leaked it to Canzano (who has been KP's agent bitch before)

I'm kind of inclined to agree, that somebody is leaking false info to Canzano for a purpose and it could be KP's agent, hoping to get someone interested in hiring KP. This could be why PA seems so angry in his tweet, feels like an agent of KP was trying to use the Blazers.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

If I was Paul Allen, I'd shut up because he looks like an out of control billionaire egomaniac with little basketball IQ! His decision making for this team at the least shows he should be hiring a real basketball mind to run this team.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Wow. Anyone just hear Kenny Vance on radio?

He said the Pacers were interested in getting KP, and their owner called PA for info regarding Pritch, and PA "lambasted KP," making the Pacers look elsewhere.

WTF happened?

Interesting...I thought that was illegal. I wonder if KP could sue PA for bad-mouthing him to other prospective employers.

 

[PapaG]

just b/c it was on the radio doesn't mean there's a "link".

Why should I believe hearsay from 6 years ago?

 

[PapaG]

I thought we covered this last summer? The Legarrie-Pritch-Penn coup seems to be the predominant theory no?

I wish they had been successful in ousting Larry Miller. Unfortunately for those three, they didn't realize that they were dealing with an immature, irrational, and highly emotional owner who will always carry a grudge against those three for actually trying to help Paul Allen help himself get out of his own way.

Now, we get Larry Miller, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Bert Kolde, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Hat Guy, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Paul Allen, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, and whoever the next Yes Man GM is, who will know basketball, but will be forced out by the incompetent fools I listed in this sentence. Fan-fucking-tastic. This team is going to get very old, very quick, and as far as I can tell, there is neither a short-term plan nor a long-term plan, other than which of the Yes Men will get to be The King's Hand next season.

 

[e_blazer]

I wish they had been successful in ousting Larry Miller. Unfortunately for those three, they didn't realize that they were dealing with an immature, irrational, and highly emotional owner who will always carry a grudge against those three for actually trying to help Paul Allen help himself get out of his own way.

Now, we get Larry Miller, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Bert Kolde, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Hat Guy, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, Paul Allen, who knows jackshit about NBA basketball, and whoever the next Yes Man GM is, who will know basketball, but will be forced out by the incompetent fools I listed in this sentence. Fan-fucking-tastic. This team is going to get very old, very quick, and as far as I can tell, there is neither a short-term plan nor a long-term plan, other than which of the Yes Men will get to be The King's Hand next season.

Wow, PapaG, I think maybe you need a couple of sugars in your coffee this morning to ease the bitter taste. While there's a possibility that the very negative image you're painting is correct, I'd say it's pretty small. None of us have the inside information to assess the truth of the matter as to the KP and Cho firings. The only way that I can see to test whether PA & Co. are the incompetent meddling buffoons you're making them out to be is to wait and see who they hire as the new GM. If he's the yes-man type, then maybe you're right. OTH, if he's an experienced GM with a good track record, then I think we have to assume that there were legitimate issues with KP and Cho.

 

[PapaG]

Wow, PapaG, I think maybe you need a couple of sugars in your coffee this morning to ease the bitter taste. While there's a possibility that the very negative image you're painting is correct, I'd say it's pretty small. None of us have the inside information to assess the truth of the matter as to the KP and Cho firings. The only way that I can see to test whether PA & Co. are the incompetent meddling buffoons you're making them out to be is to wait and see who they hire as the new GM. If he's the yes-man type, then maybe you're right. OTH, if he's an experienced GM with a good track record, then I think we have to assume that there were legitimate issues with KP and Cho.

Were there also legitimate concerns with Bob Whitsitt, John Nash, and Steve Patterson? I wonder how much trash Paul Allen talked about those guys to other teams. I wasn't wild about the Cho hiring, but firing him for "communication" problems after 10 months is simply not a good enough reason, and now the team has the same guys who traded for Luke Babbit running this draft.

ETA - Does it really matter who gets hired for the job? I'll pat myself on the back for saying that Cho was inexperienced, and not what the team needed to get to the next level, when he was hired. I took a lot of hits for that stance, but I stand by those words to this day, and PA eventually agreed that, for whatever reason, Cho wasn't going to help this team win. If Paul Allen couldn't see that when he hired Cho, yet I could, why should I trust any hire he makes just because of the GM he hires? History shows he can sour on the guy in less than a year.

 

[Minstrel]

Wow, PapaG, I think maybe you need a couple of sugars in your coffee this morning to ease the bitter taste. While there's a possibility that the very negative image you're painting is correct, I'd say it's pretty small. None of us have the inside information to assess the truth of the matter as to the KP and Cho firings. The only way that I can see to test whether PA & Co. are the incompetent meddling buffoons you're making them out to be is to wait and see who they hire as the new GM. If he's the yes-man type, then maybe you're right. OTH, if he's an experienced GM with a good track record, then I think we have to assume that there were legitimate issues with KP and Cho.

Let's assume KP and Cho were actually incompetent and therefore smart fires. At what point do you start evaluating Allen and his advisers as "incompetent buffoons" for hiring a succession of terrible GMs? It's fairly hard to reconcile constant GM turnover and a really, smart effective owner.

I guess I'm asking, what is your measure for bad ownership decisions? What would need to happen for you to feel Allen is just confused and flailing? If he hires a new GM and fires him in a year or two, would that suggest anything negative about Allen?

 

[e_blazer]

Were there also legitimate concerns with Bob Whitsitt, John Nash, and Steve Patterson? I wonder how much trash Paul Allen talked about those guys to other teams. I wasn't wild about the Cho hiring, but firing him for "communication" problems after 10 months is simply not a good enough reason, and now the team has the same guys who traded for Luke Babbit running this draft.

ETA - Does it really matter who gets hired for the job? I'll pat myself on the back for saying that Cho was inexperienced, and not what the team needed to get to the next level, when he was hired. I took a lot of hits for that stance, but I stand by those words to this day, and PA eventually agreed that, for whatever reason, Cho wasn't going to help this team win. If Paul Allen couldn't see that when he hired Cho, yet I could, why should I trust any hire he makes just because of the GM he hires? History shows he can sour on the guy in less than a year.

Whitsitt had his run and got caught trading character for a chance at a title. He's the fall guy for the Jail Blazers era.

Nash and Patterson were simply incompetent at handling the rebuild...which is why it took so long for us to see the playoffs again. Martell Webster over Chris Paul???

Luke Babbitt was KP's final parting gift, not Buchanan's.

I totally get the point you and Minstrel are making about PA & his cronies having either screwed up in hiring KP & Cho in the first place or in letting them go without sufficient cause. I don't think it really is a totally binary situation that it's one or the other. I think PA is on a tight timeline because of his health issues. We may not like it, but if he thinks his GM isn't going to get the job done in the time frame that he wants, I think it's his right to switch things up to get somebody he has confidence in. PA may be a crappy talent evaluator, or it could be that personality traits of the GM only get revealed through on the job situations. Frankly, I never had much confidence in Cho when he was hired so I'm not too surprised at his short tenure. I guess all I'm saying is that I still think that PA wants to win and is willing to do what he thinks it takes to accomplish that. If we end up with an upgrade at the GM spot as a result of all of this hullabaloo then I'm a happy camper.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

PA has also hired Miller and has not fired him for several years. He has hired scouts that he has not fired in years. He has hired a coach he hasn't fired in years. Does that show good he is competent in decision making? Why only isolate the GM spot and point to that to show PA's competence?

I'm guessing with Miller and Nate the board rips on PA for not firing them but then also rips on PA for firing Cho and KP. Basically it doesn't matter what PA does, some haters on the board will quickly spin whatever move as incompetence on Allen's behalf.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I guess the NFL didn't get the cliffnotes from this board about PA the owner:

PA tweet: FoxSports.com http://tiny.cc/cqfo6 has great things to say about @Seahawks in new rankings of NFL organizations that puts us at No. 12.

 

[Minstrel]

I think PA is on a tight timeline because of his health issues. We may not like it, but if he thinks his GM isn't going to get the job done in the time frame that he wants, I think it's his right to switch things up to get somebody he has confidence in.

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't his right to do whatever he wants within league rules. But this isn't a defense of the basketball merits of his actions. If you're correct, you're simply explaining why Allen is erratic and flailing. Which has it's own human interest side, but really isn't terribly good news for us as fans.

I guess all I'm saying is that I still think that PA wants to win and is willing to do what he thinks it takes to accomplish that.

I completely agree with that. The same is absolutely, 100% true of Al Davis and he's run the Raiders into the ground for about two decades. I'm not saying that Allen is as bad as Davis, but an owner wanting to win and being willing to do what he thinks it takes is only good if he really does know what it takes.

I'm not necessarily saying I know what it takes, but I do think that at some point, he has to do his due diligence in selecting a GM and then, after doing that, give that GM leeway and time to make basketball decisions. No GM on Earth is an upgrade if Allen undercuts him and then fires him when he doesn't receive instant gratification.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm not necessarily saying I know what it takes, but I do think that at some point, he has to do his due diligence in selecting a GM and then, after doing that, give that GM leeway and time to make basketball decisions. No GM on Earth is an upgrade if Allen undercuts him and then fires him when he doesn't receive instant gratification.

Again, the bolded text is a huge assumption that you and other around here are making. I'm all for doing all of the due diligence necessary to get as much background on GM candidates as possible. But you can do due diligence until the cows come home and still find after making a hire that there are personality traits or actions taken (or not taken) that can cause you to decide that the person you so recently hired is not what you thought they were. Given all of the discussions on this board around the trade deadline about Cho's slowness in making moves (including giving the credit for finally making the Wallace deal to Jordan's buddy, Larry Miller) I just find it a bit comical how so many are coming down on PA as the bad guy here.

 

[Minstrel]

Given all of the discussions on this board around the trade deadline about Cho's slowness in making moves (including giving the credit for finally making the Wallace deal to Jordan's buddy, Larry Miller) I just find it a bit comical how so many are coming down on PA as the bad guy here.

True, though I wasn't one of the people doing that with Cho. I didn't like Cho's trade of Bayless, but thought his deal for Wallace more than made up for it and placed him solidly on the positive side of the ledger for his first year.

In any case, I'm not saying it's fact that Allen is hiring and firing on whim, rather than a coherent vision, but I'm still curious as to what you feel is a good standard for evaluating Allen. Do you feel that as long as Allen wants to win and tries to win, he's automatically a good owner? (I'm not being snarky, I could see that being a legitimate measure by some.) If not, in light of the fact that we will never know what is going on behind the scenes, when would you consider it "fair" to criticize Allen, either for process or for results? I would honestly like your opinion that. I feel that I'm being fair (I am, at least, trying to be) but you clearly feel that Allen is not being given a fair shake and I sense that you include me in that.

 

[e_blazer]

True, though I wasn't one of the people doing that with Cho. I didn't like Cho's trade of Bayless, but thought his deal for Wallace more than made up for it and placed him solidly on the positive side of the ledger for his first year.

In any case, I'm not saying it's fact that Allen is hiring and firing on whim, rather than a coherent vision, but I'm still curious as to what you feel is a good standard for evaluating Allen. Do you feel that as long as Allen wants to win and tries to win, he's automatically a good owner? (I'm not being snarky, I could see that being a legitimate measure by some.) If not, in light of the fact that we will never know what is going on behind the scenes, when would you consider it "fair" to criticize Allen, either for process or for results? I would honestly like your opinion that. I feel that I'm being fair (I am, at least, trying to be) but you clearly feel that Allen is not being given a fair shake and I sense that you include me in that.

Good questions, but I'm not sure that there's an easy answer to them. I suppose that with any team owner there are pluses and minuses, and I don't mean to imply that I think that PA is above criticism for his actions relating to the GM decisions that have gone on over the past few years. What I do disagree with is the seeming automatic assumption I've seen in many posts around here (yours only to a lesser extent) that just because we don't know the reasons for KP's and Cho's firings, that valid reasons don't exist. Like everybody else, I'm watching how the Blazers handle this new GM search. I think that they've used up their allowances for getting it right. If they screw it up this time, you won't see me defending PA & crew on the next go around.

 

[Minstrel]

My position, to be clear, was never that valid reasons didn't exist to fire Cho. Not knowing the entire picture, I could never make such a claim. My position was that valid basketball reasons didn't appear to exist, based on the actual output of the front office. A one year tenure, based entirely on performance reasons, should only happen due to gross incompetence. Nothing grossly incompetent happened as far as personnel decisions, in my estimation, and the moves that we did see I felt were, in total, positive.

In any case, valid personal reasons could exist, but Allen seems to have personality conflicts a lot. It's certainly within his rights to hire and fire based on personal relationship, but if (and I do stress "if," because I am not suggesting this is certainly true) he just struggles in general to maintain civil, happy relations with his GM, it bodes badly for us fans.

 

[PapaG]

I guess the NFL didn't get the cliffnotes from this board about PA the owner:

PA tweet: FoxSports.com http://tiny.cc/cqfo6 has great things to say about @Seahawks in new rankings of NFL organizations that puts us at No. 12.

Paul Allen is bragging about being the #12 organization in the NFL according to a sports website. That's him, in a nutshell. We're just outside the top 37%. We're just above mediocre.

Woo Hoo!!

 

[PapaG]

Again, the bolded text is a huge assumption that you and other around here are making. I'm all for doing all of the due diligence necessary to get as much background on GM candidates as possible. But you can do due diligence until the cows come home and still find after making a hire that there are personality traits or actions taken (or not taken) that can cause you to decide that the person you so recently hired is not what you thought they were. Given all of the discussions on this board around the trade deadline about Cho's slowness in making moves (including giving the credit for finally making the Wallace deal to Jordan's buddy, Larry Miller) I just find it a bit comical how so many are coming down on PA as the bad guy here.

It's not an assumption that Allen hired Cho to be GM, wrote positively about Cho in his book, and then fired the guy in less than a year. That is a fact. I don't really care what the reasons are, as we have no way of knowing them. All reports say that Cho was not expecting the firing at all, though, so that would speak to me more of a Miller/Allen communication problem with their GM, than any issue with Cho.

I'm dealing in facts, re: firings of GMs. I don't care if he hasn't fired Larry Miller. Miller's primary role seems to be Defender of All that Is Paul Allen in the media these days. He's basically Allen's little pet who Paul sends out to attack enemies, real or imagined, on his command.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Wow. Anyone just hear Kenny Vance on radio?

He said the Pacers were interested in getting KP, and their owner called PA for info regarding Pritch, and PA "lambasted KP," making the Pacers look elsewhere.

WTF happened?

Luke Babbbitt happened.

 

[PapaG]

Paul Allen hasn't fired Larry Miller in almost 4 years. Now that's stability!!!

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The Bob Whitsitt era was the most stable.

Maybe bring back Trader Bob?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Paul Allen is bragging about being the #12 organization in the NFL according to a sports website. That's him, in a nutshell. We're just outside the top 37%. We're just above mediocre.

Woo Hoo!!

I'm sure this being an owner is all jsut a walk in the park and if you were given teh chance you could do much better than PA.

But give the guy a break if he want to celebrate that a franchise he owns is voted in the top half of the league when it comes to organization.

Reading your posts, PA is incapable of running an organization that is even in the top 2/3rd. You sit here from the cheap seats and question, grill, ridicule and insulted PA and claim what a terrible sports owner he is. And how funny is it as you hate on him for being a terrrible owner, fox sports recognizes one of his organization as #12 in NFL.

Kind of socks your rant right in the gut

 

[PapaG]

Luke Babbbitt happened.

Then Allen's the dumbass for firing a guy right before allowing him to "run" your draft.

Think about that. Paul Allen tells KP he's fired before the draft, but he wants KP to be in the draft room, KP agrees to do it, and as a reward Paul Allen is apparently doing his best to blackball KP from the NBA.

What a vile and petty man.

 

[PapaG]

I'm sure this being an owner is all jsut a walk in the park and if you were given teh chance you could do much better than PA.

But give the guy a break if he want to celebrate that a franchise he owns is voted in the top half of the league when it comes to organization.

Reading your posts, PA is incapable of running an organization that is even in the top 2/3rd. You sit here from the cheap seats and question, grill, ridicule and insulted PA and claim what a terrible sports owner he is. And how funny is it as you hate on him for being a terrrible owner, fox sports recognizes one of his organization as #12 in NFL.

Kind of socks your rant right in the gut

We're #12!! We're #12!!

Portland would probably rate in the top half as well in the NBA, mainly due to Allen's money. How that leads to championships, or even consistent wins in the playoffs, eludes me at this point.

I have to laugh at the guy getting slammed for his unnecessary Tweet and having Miller attack Pritchard, who did nothing except be named in a rumor, and then the next day bragging about how great his 8-8 football team is in the eyes of FoxSports.com. Is he losing it?

ETA - the Seabags were 7-9 and have no QB. Awesome!!!