Bogut? (1 Viewer)

[KingSpeed]

Anyone here want Bogut? I would. What do you think? How could we pry him from GS?

 

[jlprk]

The trick is to discover talent before your competition does, not after. Congratulations to Golden State for being good at this.

 

[Rhal]

Boguts health is a giant giant concern and with our training staff i'd stay away.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The trick is to discover talent before your competition does, not after. Congratulations to Golden State for being good at this.

How did GS discover Bogut? He was the overall #1 pick. And it took trading their best player to get him while he was out with a season ending injury. And he was injured in other seasons too. He is good when healthy though

 

[jlprk]

They rediscovered him when his reputation was approaching that of Kwame Brown. If a team signs Oden and Oden helps them, they will deserve credit for estimating his worth better than other teams.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I'd like to get Jack back. He's been great for them this year.

 

[Sinobas]

I'd like to get Jack back. He's been great for them this year.

Or Webster or Bayless or Asik or any of the other guys we se shipped off for nothing who are now doing well.

 

[KingSpeed]

I believe Bayless got us Lillard in a roundabout way. And Webster got us Babbitt, a third place vote getter for sixth man of the year. And when he leaves Portland, he'll carve out a nice role for him elsewhere.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

The trick is to discover talent before your competition does, not after. Congratulations to Golden State for being good at this.

That's crazy talk. It's much better to assume someone is talented, sign them to a big contract, and wait for them to blossum.

 

[Run BJM]

How did GS discover Bogut? He was the overall #1 pick. And it took trading their best player to get him while he was out with a season ending injury. And he was injured in other seasons too. He is good when healthy though

I wouldn't say they "discovered" Bogut. Obviously he was a #1 overall pick, I believe hes made at least one all star team and a 3rd team all NBA, lead the league in blocks, etc etc. But they had a window to get him because hes been so injury prone and they took it despite the risks. People don't just give away big men, you've got to take a risk early and hope it pays off like with Asik. His health really hasn't proven to be very good, and hes visibly less mobile than he was during the stretches where he was healthy this season, so I'm quite sure hes nursing a leg or back injury right now.

We'd be getting murdered in this series without him though. Karl's smallball tactics in game 3 were a ploy to get him off the floor because he challenges EVERYTHING and hes been rebounding like a madman. His numbers are don't wow you but when you watch the games its easy to see how many shots he changes, shots he deters guys from taking altogether, and how many times he cleans up a mistake by another W's defender.

What would it take to get him? I dunno, his value isn't that high because he shows no signs of staying healthy. The Warriors have a ton of cap coming off the books next year, including Bogut, so they very well might use that cap room to go in another direction with someone younger. The W's have little incentive to move him unless someone blew us away with an offer, but who would give substantial assets for an old, beat up big man?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

who would give substantial assets for an old, beat up big man?

28 is old now? Yikes - LA is 8 months away from being "old".

And I wouldn't say "beat up". That, to me, implies a lot of miles on the clock. But, like Grant Hill, Bogut's missed so many games that he's still fresh! (Perhaps "fragile"?)

 

[Run BJM]

28 is old now? Yikes - LA is 8 months away from being "old".

And I wouldn't say "beat up". That, to me, implies a lot of miles on the clock. But, like Grant Hill, Bogut's missed so many games that he's still fresh! (Perhaps "fragile"?)

When 7 footers start to rack up injury after injury with little/no sustained periods of health inbetween, yeah, I think you have reason to believe they've reached their mileage limit. That's why Milwaukee dumped him and although hes still a good starting C, he has not been healthy at all for the Warriors and has only gone through setback after setback. I don't think he'll ever re-gain the mobility and explosiveness he had as a younger player.

We don't know exactly what hes dealing with now but IF he doesn't need any more surgeries this offseason then he can rest up and perhaps we'll see him relatively healthy for 2013-14. Having Ezeli is a big luxury and makes it easier to limit Bogut's minutes like with Duncan. Also like with Duncan it might be time for Bogut to drop some weight.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

When 7 footers start to rack up injury after injury with little/no sustained periods of health inbetween,

You're saying this to a Blazers fan? Seriously?

yeah, I think you have reason to believe they've reached their mileage limit.

Only if they were healthy for a longish period before then. It's like cars: some start to break down after 100 thousand odd miles, and some are just lemons.

 

[Run BJM]

You're saying this to a Blazers fan? Seriously?

You didn't seem to understand. You agree now, so we're on the same page.

Only if they were healthy for a longish period before then. It's like cars: some start to break down after 100 thousand odd miles, and some are just lemons.

Last two seasons hes played 32 and 12 games. At this point I think you go into every season thinking that if he gives you 65 games and is relatively healthy for the playoffs then its a successful season. And its obvious even at 28 years old, when he should be in his prime, that he's never going to get back to the level of athleticism he had before. Again, hes still a useful player, but you've gotta manage him very carefully to keep him from missing an enormous amount of games. At 28 hes being treated like 33 year old Shaq, 36 year old Tim Duncan, Ilgauskas late in his career, etc.

There's just no reason to believe anything other than hes got limited time left. The Warriors will try to do what they can to extend his career, but his body won't miraculously stop breaking down and allow you to throw him out there for 33 mpg for an entire season.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That's why Milwaukee dumped him

Wow - way to diss Monta Ellis. Not that I disagree, but still.

 

[Run BJM]

Wow - way to diss Monta Ellis. Not that I disagree, but still.

Heh. I don't think either team could have gotten better players in exchange for the other one. Monta might end up being a 1.5 year rental if he opts out this season. But hes a fool's gold kind of "star", which isn't a terrible return for a very injury prone C whose value was at an all-time low. IIRC Bucks fans were begging for more Larry Sanders around the time of the trade so maybe they knew they what they had with him.

Dump is an insulting way to put it, but what did they really get from Monta? Hes fallen off since hes been there and he'll probably bail on them ASAP. They got a first round ass whooping out of it but now the team is going to lose its starting 2, won't have any kind of decent draft pick let alone prospects to help them re-build post-Monta (and post-Jennings?).

As a W's fan I wouldn't change a thing. Shipping Monta away let Steph come into his own, and its been spectacular. Everyone knew one of them had to go and a lot of people thought it should have been Steph lol. The return on Bogut really hadn't panned out as his ankle injury actually turned out worse than reported and he had microfracture on it. Then he tried to come back too early and fucked it up again and the second half of the season he was in and out of the lineup. All that said, we sold out for a talented C for moments like right now. Bogut has had complete control of the paint against the Nuggets. We've outrebounded them in every game this series despite the Lee injury. Hes easily been the most physical player out there and hes been pounding their bigs and hammering their small guys with screens. The stats don't show it but hes absolutely crucial for GS.

 

[Pinwheel1]

For the Warriors it was a smart trade. They had Curry and like the Blazers and Lillard, Ellis would have hurt his development because he demands the ball so much. However If I did not have Lillard I would much rather have a scoring guard like Ellis than a center like Bogut.

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't believe Bogut has ever been an All Star.

 

[Rhal]

I don't believe Bogut has ever been an All Star.

He hasn't but he was all nba third team.

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[PapaG]

They rediscovered him when his reputation was approaching that of Kwame Brown. If a team signs Oden and Oden helps them, they will deserve credit for estimating his worth better than other teams.

No, not really.

I do think it's odd that he's dominating McGee and Koufus, though. How bad are those two?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Bogut when healthy is a top 5 center because he plays both ends, and he has a mean streak. (Also because there are hardly any good centers.)

(But he's very rarely healthy.)

 

[Pinwheel1]

Bogut when healthy is a top 5 center because he plays both ends, and he has a mean streak. (Also because there are hardly any good centers.)

(But he's very rarely healthy.)

Especially when the other team starts an undersized PF to guard you. Regardless how good Faried is, (and he is good) the size difference was substantial.

 

[KingSpeed]

The lesson to learn from the Bogut trade is that in can pay off to take a risk on an injured guy who can fill a need once healthy WHICH IS WHY we should make an offer for Bynum. He'll come back eventually and he'll dominate and we'll say we wish we had him but it will be too late. He's won two titles and he was starting to dominate last season, had a 30 rebound game against the Spurs. Let's take the gamble. Sign Bynum.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The lesson to learn from the Bogut trade is that in can pay off to take a risk on an injured guy who can fill a need once healthy WHICH IS WHY we should make an offer for Bynum. He'll come back eventually and he'll dominate and we'll say we wish we had him but it will be too late. He's won two titles and he was starting to dominate last season, had a 30 rebound game against the Spurs. Let's take the gamble. Sign Bynum.

I have never liked Bynum. (Head case IMO) However If he would sign for 11 mil a year I would take the gamble. And it would be a huge gamble.

 

[KingSpeed]

I have never liked Bynum. (Head case IMO) However If he would sign for 11 mil a year I would take the gamble. And it would be a huge gamble.

Agreed. He's a total dick. But we should go for it.

 

[Run BJM]

Especially when the other team starts an undersized PF to guard you. Regardless how good Faried is, (and he is good) the size difference was substantial.

They only made the switch from Koufos to Faried because Bogut and the W's were bitch slapping their front court from the outset. Bogut dominated tonight, but hes been just as dominant controlling the paint (minus the dunks that he got tonight) for all the other games.

The lesson to learn from the Bogut trade is that in can pay off to take a risk on an injured guy who can fill a need once healthy WHICH IS WHY we should make an offer for Bynum. He'll come back eventually and he'll dominate and we'll say we wish we had him but it will be too late. He's won two titles and he was starting to dominate last season, had a 30 rebound game against the Spurs. Let's take the gamble. Sign Bynum.

Somthing tells I can find a post of yours trashing the Warriors when they made the trade. Easy to say I told you so now. But that was a pretty polarizing trade and it seemed like most people took a stance at the time. I was pro-Bogut and anti-Monta.

 

[KingSpeed]

I've always been pro-Bogut. Love the guy.