Bosh available?

[Nikolokolus]

I would assume that Deng would be part of the deal. I'm not sure what else Chicago could offer to entice the Raptors into trading them Bosh.

That's probably true under normal circumstances, but if Bosh is making it public that he doesn't intend to resign with the Raptors, he's really undermining Colangelo's ability to get back fair value ... so, who knows what he'd demand or could force in trade, it would all depend on how many GMs were willing to trade for Bosh with the hope that he'd resign with them.

 

[B-Roy]

no it absolutely would not. what we really need to upgrade as a team is defense and bosh may actually be a downgrade in that department, there's an unpredicatable chance he wouldn't re-sign, and if he does figuring in tax he would cost something like 60 million more than aldridge over the next 4 1/2 years. those are some pretty serious negatives.

Bosh's biggest concern has been winning, which his team is clearly not doing. If Portland can show Bosh that they can be contenders for the next few years (decades?), Bosh will probably resign in P-Town. Is it still a risk? Definitely, but it's a risk I'm willing to take if all we have to give up is Aldridge.

You can debate this all you want, but Bosh is an all-around better player than LMA is right now period. Plus, he's a legitimate perennial all-star and an olympian. You put two legit stars together (Roy and Bosh) and a soon to be star (Oden) and you can almost taste NBA championship. It's a superstar run league, and if you have the chance to obtain two (or three) on one team without giving up a lot of good pieces, you do it, bottom line.

Could LMA become as good as Bosh? Yes, but right now, Bosh is more proven and much better.

 

[Nikolokolus]

just considering their talent, it absolutely is a no brainer.

obviously, bosh being able to leave after next season changes that. of course if he was willing to sign an extension with portland as part of the deal(not sure if he can do that at this point or not), that would move it back to being a no brainer.

I'm sure he could give verbal assurances through back-channels, but there would be nothing binding ... meaning if he changed his mind (just like Brand did with the Clippers) he can walk and there's no recourse.

 

[Natebishop3]

Bosh's biggest concern has been winning, which his team is clearly not doing. If Portland can show Bosh that they can be contenders for the next few years (decades?), Bosh will probably resign in P-Town. Is it still a risk? Definitely, but it's a risk I'm willing to take if all we have to give up is Aldridge.

You can debate this all you want, but Bosh is an all-around better player than LMA is right now period. Plus, he's a legitimate perennial all-star and an olympian. You put two legit stars together (Roy and Bosh) and a soon to be star (Oden) and you can almost taste NBA championship. It's a superstar run league, and if you have the chance to obtain two (or three) on one team without giving up a lot of good pieces, you do it, bottom line.

Could LMA become as good as Bosh? Yes, but right now, Bosh is more proven and much better.

Then I guess it really just depends on what we have to give up.... Aldridge and LaFrentz for Bosh? Do it. Anything more? Then you'd have to really think about it.

 

[B-Roy]

Then I guess it really just depends on what we have to give up.... Aldridge and LaFrentz for Bosh? Do it. Anything more? Then you'd have to really think about it.

Yup, and that was my point.

Bosh has a chance to sign an extension this off-season though. So if Toronto gets him to sign an extension, we could potentially make an offer.

 

[rocketeer]

I'm sure he could give verbal assurances through back-channels, but there would be nothing binding ... meaning if he changed his mind (just like Brand did with the Clippers) he can walk and there's no recourse.

does anyone know at what point bosh is eligible for an extension(or if he is ever with his current contract)?

 

[B-Roy]

does anyone know at what point bosh is eligible for an extension(or if he is ever with his current contract)?

This off season.

 

[rocketeer]

Yup, and that was my point.

Bosh has a chance to sign an extension this off-season though. So if Toronto gets him to sign an extension, we could potentially make an offer.

then i doubt portland makes a play for him until the offseason(if ever).

if bosh wants to leave, no chance he signs an extension with toronto though. that would be something that would have to be worked out as part of the trade being that he signs an extension with the new team.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm guessing he's more tired of getting booed by his own fans when the team is trying to mount a fourth quarter comeback than he's worried about going to an immediate contender (although that wouldn't hurt).

If I was Chris Bosh, there's a lot to like about Chicago: a fairly strong history of fan support, a big market, a young stud point guard and a damn good front court mate in Luol Deng (assuming he's not part of the trade) and a chance to help build something in a new place.

I could see it happening and it working out.

Colangelo tried to trade for Deng on draft day, so I would assume they would want him.

I would imagine the Chicago package would be something like Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah.

For a team like Chicago, whose been knocked for not making the big move, you can't really leave anything on the table when it comes to Bosh. Rose is off limits, and Gordon can't be traded. Toronto can have whatever they want from the Bulls to get a trade for Bosh done, within reason.

 

[B-Roy]

then i doubt portland makes a play for him until the offseason.

if bosh wants to leave, no chance he signs an extension with toronto though. that would be something that would have to be worked out as part of the trade being that he signs an extension with the new team.

True.

To bad they can't pull an extension and trade like they can with a sign and trade.

 

[Денг Гордон]

That's probably true under normal circumstances, but if Bosh is making it public that he doesn't intend to resign with the Raptors, he's really undermining Colangelo's ability to get back fair value ... so, who knows what he'd demand or could force in trade, it would all depend on how many GMs were willing to trade for Bosh with the hope that he'd resign with them.

And given the Bulls situation of loading assets just to make the big deal, getting burned twice (Garnett and Gasol), Chicago is the one team that would probably overpay for Bosh to secure him.

 

[B-Roy]

Colangelo tried to trade for Deng on draft day, so I would assume they would want him.

I would imagine the Chicago package would be something like Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah.

For a team like Chicago, whose been knocked for not making the big move, you can't really leave anything on the table when it comes to Bosh. Rose is off limits, and Gordon can't be traded. Toronto can have whatever they want from the Bulls to get a trade for Bosh done, within reason.

But why would Bosh not want to bolt in 2010? He's going to want to play for a contender and unless Rose explodes into superstardom in his second year, would Bosh want to stay in a team that won't be ready to contend?

 

[crowTrobot]

just considering their talent, it absolutely is a no brainer.

the only things bosh does better significantly better than aldridge is get defensive rebounds and get to the foul line, neither of which are team weaknesses of ours. figuring what bosh would cost in terms of loss of cap flexibility and potential ability to upgrade other positions if needed he's just as likely to be a step backwards as forwards.

 

[Денг Гордон]

But why would Bosh not want to bolt in 2010? He's going to want to play for a contender and unless Rose explodes into superstardom in his second year, would Bosh want to stay in a team that won't be ready to contend?

They'll be ready to contend soon. They will already have a 20 PPG guy in Gordon. It won't take Rose too long to get to star level. With the exception of a few guys (Jermaine O'neal, Tracy McGrady), players usually are stars by the end of their rookie contract...especially if they become superstars.

Rose/Gordon/Bosh. That team has a deadly guard duo, and would all of a sudden have an inside threat. That's a good core. And if they can do the trade I posted (Thomas/Noah/Deng), and they don't take any 2010+ contracts back in the trade, they could add another one of the 2010 free agents as long as they find a taker for Kirk Hinrich.

 

[B-Roy]

the only things bosh does better significantly better than aldridge is get defensive rebounds and get to the foul line, neither of which are team weaknesses of ours. figuring what bosh would cost in terms of loss of cap flexibility and potential ability to upgrade other positions if needed he's just as likely to be a step backwards as forwards.

Bosh is better than Aldridge in just about every aspect of the game. Bosh/Roy would be an absolutely deadly combo unrivaled by just about any two man show in the league.

 

[DaRizzle]

edit...i just realized you said Bosh and not O'neal...nevermind

...yeah, it was a good superbowl

 

[crowTrobot]

and if you have the chance to obtain two (or three) on one team without giving up a lot of good pieces, you do it, bottom line.

unless you need help at other positions more and the upgrade isn't significant enough to justify the massive cost and potential loss of all cap flexibility in the future.

 

[rocketeer]

the only things bosh does better significantly better than aldridge is get defensive rebounds and get to the foul line, neither of which are team weaknesses of ours. figuring what bosh would cost in terms of loss of cap flexibility and potential ability to upgrade other positions if needed he's just as likely to be a step backwards as forwards.

that's just not true.

 

[Natebishop3]

unless you need help at other positions more and the upgrade isn't significant enough to justify the massive cost and potential loss of all cap flexibility in the future.

I'm kind of in your corner at this point.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Bosh is better than Aldridge in just about every aspect of the game. Bosh/Roy would be an absolutely deadly combo unrivaled by just about any two man show in the league.

Shh, don't let Kevin Pritchard know....there is no reason that a Roy/Bosh/Oden team needs to be assembled.

 

[B-Roy]

unless you need help at other positions more and the upgrade isn't significant enough to justify the massive cost and potential loss of all cap flexibility in the future.

I guess that depends on how big of an upgrade you see it as. I see it as pairing two perennial all-stars, both with the ability to get to the line, and one with a refined inside and outside game. You obviously see it as just a slightly better Aldridge. You have a different perspective I guess.

It's not really as big of a cost as you think though, since Aldridge is going to end up signing a near max extension at the end of this season anyways. You're probably looking at around 5-6 million extra a year for Bosh over Aldridge. I'd say it's definitely worth it, especially given Bosh's young age.

 

[Natebishop3]

I guess that depends on how big of an upgrade you see it as. I see it as pairing two perennial all-stars, both with the ability to get to the line, and one with a refined inside and outside game. You obviously see it as just a slightly better Aldridge. You have a different perspective I guess.

It's not really as big of a cost as you think though, since Aldridge is going to end up signing a near max extension at the end of this season anyways. You're probably looking at around 5-6 million extra a year for Bosh over Aldridge. I'd say it's definitely worth it, especially given Bosh's young age.

I guess it really depends on what else is out there... if we can use RLEC to get a starting-quality small forward, do you use him to get Bosh? Would you rather have Aldridge and a good small forward, or just Bosh?

 

[Minstrel]

so, who knows what he'd demand or could force in trade, it would all depend on how many GMs were willing to trade for Bosh with the hope that he'd resign with them.

I think most GMs can safely assume he'd re-sign. Free agency in the NBA is a very different beast than in the NFL and MLB. In those sports, it would be virtually guaranteed that a top talent would explore the market and the ensuing bidding war could end unpredictably. In the NBA, the player's current team can always legally offer him the most, so money is always on the side of the current team (except in the case of owners too cheap to max out a top talent) with no chance of risky bidding wars. And money is usually the main factor. Obviously, if the players hates it on a team or the team is terrible, that can change things...but Portland, say, is already a very good team and there's no reason to believe that will change. Combine that with Portland offering the most money and the chances Bosh would leave is vanishingly small.

I personally think Aldridge + LaFrentz for Bosh is a no-brainer to do. If more talent is involved on Portland's side, it becomes more arguable.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm kind of in your corner at this point.

I think as fans of a certain team, we tend to overvalue our players and undervalue others. (What's that term again? Homerism? )
We see more of one player and tend to think more highly of them, however, in this situation, I can guarantee that an Oden/Roy/Bosh trio would absolutely send shivers down the spine of every team in the league, including those Lakers. If you can assemble that team without giving too much, you do it.

 

[B-Roy]

I guess it really depends on what else is out there... if we can use RLEC to get a starting-quality small forward, do you use him to get Bosh? Would you rather have Aldridge and a good small forward, or just Bosh?

If we can get Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace for RLEC, then for the love of god, do it. But if we were able to do that, then it would have already been done.

Personally, I think the reason we haven't been able to get a legitimate upgrade at the SF spot is because no opportunities have arisen. If this Bosh rumor is true, then we might actually have a chance at him, so we should go after it.

 

[Minstrel]

I would imagine the Chicago package would be something like Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah.

I don't think that's a very good offer. Deng is a very good player, Thomas is a bust and Noah an average player. Toronto can definitely get a lot more than that for currently the best young man outside of Dwight Howard.

Without including Rose, I don't think Chicago has the trade chips to go after Bosh.

 

[crowTrobot]

Bosh is better than Aldridge in just about every aspect of the game.

no he's not. he's more aggressive and a better finisher at the hoop offensively, and gets to the line a ton - but he's playing that primary roll in toronto surrounded by a bunch of outside shooters. a lot of the roll in which he builds offensive stats would be taken by roy and oden here.

otherwise there's no obvious evidence he's better in any way than aldridge at this point, other than having more experience and probably a higher level of confidence. bosh gets more defensive rebounds than aldridge but he has the advantage of being the primary rebounder on his team. aldridge actually has a slight edge in offensive rebounding, shot blocking, and steals, and turns the ball over a lot less than bosh.

of primary concern is that bosh does not have a great reputation around the league as a defender, and when i've watched him i've seen nothing that would indicate he'd be an upgrade from aldridge at all in that department.

 

[Natebishop3]

If we can get Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace for RLEC, then for the love of god, do it. But if we were able to do that, then it would have already been done.

Personally, I think the reason we haven't been able to get a legitimate upgrade at the SF spot is because no opportunities have arisen. If this Bosh rumor is true, then we might actually have a chance at him, so we should go after it.

That may or may not be true. If a team were considering a trade of either of those players, they would wait until the last possible minute before the deadline to see if it was all they could get. I think if those two are traded, or anyone else for that matter, it will be at the deadline.

 

[Natebishop3]

no he's not. he's more aggressive and a better finisher at the hoop offensively, and gets to the line a ton - but he's playing that primary roll in toronto surrounded by a bunch of outside shooters. a lot of the roll in which he builds offensive stats would be taken by roy and oden here.

otherwise there's no obvious evidence he's better in any way than aldridge at this point, other than having more experience and probably a higher level of confidence. bosh gets more defensive rebounds than aldridge but he has the advantage of being the primary rebounder on his team. aldridge actually has a slight edge in offensive rebounding, shot blocking, and steals, and turns the ball over a lot less than bosh.

of primary concern is that bosh does not have a great reputation around the league as a defender, and when i've watched him i've seen nothing that would indicate he'd be an upgrade from aldridge at all in that department.

The more you say, the more I agree with you.

 

[B-Roy]

no he's not. he's more aggressive and a better finisher at the hoop offensively, and gets to the line a ton - but he's playing that primary roll in toronto surrounded by a bunch of outside shooters. a lot of the roll in which he builds offensive stats would be taken by roy and oden here.

The reason he's better at this is because he's a better player than Aldridge. He's more adept in the low post, certainly a better back to the basket AND face up player than Aldridge. Plus he gets to the line more because he's a more aggressive player. How many times have we seen Aldridge in a perfect position to penetrate, but decides to shoot a jumper or a fade away instead of taking it to the basket? Getting free throws is also a key component to a winning team. Right now, only Roy and sometimes Bayless can get to the line consistently. You won't have to worry about that with Bosh. (It also helps that Bosh gets superstar calls from time to time)

otherwise there's no obvious evidence he's better in any way than aldridge at this point, other than having more experience and probably a higher level of confidence. bosh gets more defensive rebounds than aldridge but he has the advantage of being the primary rebounder on his team. aldridge actually has a slight edge in offensive rebounding, shot blocking, and steals, and turns the ball over a lot less than bosh.

Bosh isn't the primary re-bounder. They have O'Neal too you know. Besides that, I agree that rebounding really isn't an issue. That's not what he'd be brought here for though.

of primary concern is that bosh does not have a great reputation around the league as a defender, and when i've watched him i've seen nothing that would indicate he'd be an upgrade from aldridge at all in that department.

Maybe that's just you and me, but I've seen Bosh play great defense before. Maybe a change of scenery and the chance to contend for a championship will motivate him to play harder defense?

The main luxury though is just having a second go to scorer. LMA is getting there, but I don't know if he can be consistently called on to score if he is unwilling to go to the basket and get free throws. Bosh is SIGNIFICANTLY better at getting to the FT line, and that makes a huge difference in games.