Bosh available?

[crowTrobot]

It's not really as big of a cost as you think though

i'm figuring luxury tax would double the difference in salary no later than 2011.

 

[Natebishop3]

Bosh isn't the primary re-bounder. They have O'Neal too you know. Besides that, I agree that rebounding really isn't an issue. That's not what he'd be brought here for though.

O'Neal isn't a starter. He only played 26:55 minutes today and notched 2 rebounds.

 

[B-Roy]

O'Neal isn't a starter. He only played 26:55 minutes today and notched 2 rebounds.

He's been injured

Whatever, it's not even an issue in Portland.

 

[cdub503]

When the hell is the deadline anyways I'm getting antsy!!!

 

[crowTrobot]

The reason he's better at this is because he's a better player than Aldridge. He's more adept in the low post, certainly a better back to the basket AND face up player than Aldridge. Plus he gets to the line more because he's a more aggressive player.

all of that is true, but the differences in "adeptness" in those areas aren't as substantial as their reputations would indicate IMO. bosh is more aggressive, but a lot of the perceived differences in their abilities are due to bosh being the #1 option on his team and getting a lot more opportunities.

How many times have we seen Aldridge in a perfect position to penetrate, but decides to shoot a jumper or a fade away instead of taking it to the basket?

maybe not quite as much, but bosh is guilty of that a lot also. ask toronto fans.

Getting free throws is also a key component to a winning team. Right now, only Roy and sometimes Bayless can get to the line consistently. You won't have to worry about that with Bosh. (It also helps that Bosh gets superstar calls from time to time)

agreed that is bosh's primary advantage, but i doubt it's enough for the blazers to justify the cost.

Bosh isn't the primary re-bounder.

he certainly is. o'neal might have been at least a "co"-primary rebounder if he could stay healthy, but he's missed 15 games and they've had to limit his minutes somewhat when he does play.

but I don't know if he can be consistently called on to score if he is unwilling to go to the basket and get free throws.

i think unwilling is overstating the difference. aldridge does get to the basket on a good percentage of his post-ups. we just don't call that many post-up plays for him.

 

[Natebishop3]

He's been injured

Whatever, it's not even an issue in Portland.

From what I understand, they are wanting to work Bargnani in as their center of the future.

 

[crowTrobot]

When the hell is the deadline anyways I'm getting antsy!!!

19th

 

[rocketeer]

The more you say, the more I agree with you.

the more he says it, the less i agree with him.

bosh is clearly a better player than aldridge. offensively, bosh is better in every aspect.

as far as defense is concerned, you'd have to expect bosh to be better defensively in portland than he is in toronto. bosh can't be aggressive defensively in toronto because if he gets in foul trouble, game over because they don't have anyone to pick up the scoring slack if he sits. that's not something that would be a problem for him in portland so i'd expect to see improved defense out of him. he showed in the olympics(which obviously isn't the nba) that when he's able to focus on defense, he's very good in that area.

 

[Nikolokolus]

From what I understand, they are wanting to work Bargnani in as their center of the future.

Sweet. I look forward to Oden dunking on his head twice a year.

 

[B-Roy]

all of that is true, but the differences in "adeptness" in those areas aren't as substantial as their reputations would indicate IMO. bosh is more aggressive, but a lot of the perceived difference in their abilities are due to bosh being the #1 option on his team and getting a lot more opportunities.

Aldridge gets plenty of opportunities. This year, Aldridge is averaging 15 shots per game, and Bosh is averaging 16. What's accounts for the difference then, from Bosh's 23 PPG to Aldridge's 17.5? Free throws, and that's a whopping 6 points difference in the free throw department. Bosh is averaging 8.1 ftpg, whereas Aldridge is only average 3.8 per game. Plus, he converts them at a higher rate. (81% to 74%) That's a humongous difference which shows the difference in aggressiveness between both players. These numbers are even more in favor of Bosh if you want to look at the last couple of years.

maybe not quite as much, but bosh is guilty of that a lot also. ask toronto fans.

Not nearly as guilty as Aldridge.

agreed that is bosh's primary advantage, but i doubt it's enough for the blazers to justify the cost.

I can't stress how much pressure would be put off of Roy's back if we were to obtain a second go to scorer.

he certainly is. o'neal might have been at least a "co"-primary rebounder if he could stay healthy, but he's missed 15 games and they've had to limit his minutes somewhat when he does play.

Rebounding is a moot point though. Portland is a good enough rebounding team that the PF won't need to rebound as much. Even still, Bosh is a better rebounder than LA.

i think unwilling is overstating the difference. aldridge does get to the basket on a good percentage of his post-ups. we just don't call that many post-up plays for him.

He doesn't need to be posted up to be able to get to the foul line. Facing up and driving is something that Bosh does so much more than Aldridge and it usually leads to an easy bucket or a foul.

 

[crowTrobot]

Aldridge gets plenty of opportunities. This year, Aldridge is averaging 15 shots per game, and Bosh is averaging 16. What's accounts for the difference then, from Bosh's 23 PPG to Aldridge's 17.5? Free throws, and that's a whopping 6 points difference in the free throw department. Bosh is averaging 8.1 ftpg, whereas Aldridge is only average 3.8 per game. Plus, he converts them at a higher rate. (81% to 74%) That's a humongous difference which shows the difference in aggressiveness between both players. These numbers are even more in favor of Bosh if you want to look at the last couple of years.

again while there is a difference in aggressiveness to some extent i think it's being overstated. from what i've seen over the course of a typical game aldridge gets WAY less isolation plays called for him than bosh, and a much higher percentage of his shots come from pick/pops or other plays specifically designed to get him an open perimeter shot. also for some reason we frequently tend to go away from posting aldridge even when he's having success getting to the hoop.

Not nearly as guilty as Aldridge.

i'll let you argue with toronto fans about that one. they seem to think that as good as bosh is he's still lazy at times.

I can't stress how much pressure would be put off of Roy's back if we were to obtain a second go to scorer.

there's no reason to think aldridge won't work in that roll. right now if anything i think nate wants to share the ball too much, developing oden or showcasing outlaw or whatever.

He doesn't need to be posted up to be able to get to the foul line. Facing up and driving is something that Bosh does so much more than Aldridge and it usually leads to an easy bucket or a foul.

for me it's a cost/benefit thing, and the cost is massive.

 

[B-Roy]

again while there is a difference in aggressiveness to some extent i think it's being overstated. from what i've seen over the course of a typical game aldridge gets WAY less isolation plays called for him than bosh, and a much higher percentage of his shots come from pick/pops or other plays specifically designed to get him an open perimeter shot. also for some reason we frequently tend to go away from posting aldridge even when he's having success getting to the hoop.

Aldridge can easily pass up an open shot and take an open lane to the basket (which he usually has). The facts and stats are there. If you choose to ignore them, then so be it.

i'll let you argue with toronto fans about that one. they seem to think that as good as bosh is he's still lazy at times.

Of course, but this is mainly because Bosh has less motivation to do well. His team is in serious jeopardy of missing the playoffs, and even if they do make it, they're just going to get bounced in the first round. The future in Toronto is much less bright than it is in Portland.

there's no reason to think aldridge won't work in that roll. right now if anything i think nate wants to share the ball too much, developing oden or showcasing outlaw or whatever.

Bosh is better right now. That's what I'm going off of. Will Aldridge get better? Probably, but his ceiling is most likely the current Chris Bosh. I'm going to take the proven product over the developing player.

for me it's a cost/benefit thing, and the cost is massive.

The cost is what, 5-6 million extra a year? That's really not a lot when you take into account the difference between the two players. (I'm going off of Aldridge/RLEC for Bosh) Bosh puts us at a much better position to win the championship, plain and simple.

 

[C_note]

Hmm, if it's true Toronto is willing to move him...Chris Bosh/Moon/Parker to Miami for Beasley and Marion? You heard it hear first...

 

[Natebishop3]

Aldridge can easily pass up an open shot and take an open lane to the basket (which he usually has). The facts and stats are there. If you choose to ignore them, then so be it.


Of course, but this is mainly because Bosh has less motivation to do well. His team is in serious jeopardy of missing the playoffs, and even if they do make it, they're just going to get bounced in the first round. The future in Toronto is much less bright than it is in Portland.


Bosh is better right now. That's what I'm going off of. Will Aldridge get better? Probably, but his ceiling is most likely the current Chris Bosh. I'm going to take the proven product over the developing player.


The cost is what, 5-6 million extra a year? That's really not a lot when you take into account the difference between the two players. (I'm going off of Aldridge/RLEC for Bosh) Bosh puts us at a much better position to win the championship, plain and simple.

What you aren't factoring in is that Aldridge is playing in an offense that features one All-Star (Roy) and one up-and-coming star in Oden, but despite all that he's still putting up good numbers. He has a plethora of scorers around him, but he's still getting his. Could Bosh do that? You compared their fga per game, but isn't Bosh the focus of that offense?

 

[Natebishop3]

Hmm, if it's true Toronto is willing to move him...Chris Bosh/Moon/Parker to Miami for Beasley and Marion? You heard it hear first...

Gross. I don't think Beasley has proven anything yet, and Marion is a FA.

 

[C_note]

Gross. I don't think Beasley has proven anything yet, and Marion is a FA.

Really? It makes sense for both teams, easily. I would do this trade if I was either one of them...

Toronto gets something back for Bosh saying he won't re-up.
Miami gets the obvious..making them instantly better IMO. Plus, what if LeBron wanted to sign with these guys in Miami?

 

[Natebishop3]

Really? It makes sense for both teams, easily. I would do this trade if I was either one of them...

Toronto gets something back for Bosh saying he won't re-up.
Miami gets the obvious..making them instantly better IMO. Plus, what if LeBron wanted to sign with these guys in Miami?

There's no way they'd have the cap space to re-sign Bosh and Wade, then sign LeBron.

 

[BengalDuck]

Bosh is very good, but there's no guarantee he sticks around in Portland (same with LA, to some extent, but at least Aldridge has grown here the last few years). Messing with the main 3 is dangerous, too, because they all complement each other so well.

I wouldn't be upset if we traded Aldridge for Bosh in the lineup, but I wouldn't be all too happy about it either. LA's high post ability and willingness to defer to Roy/Outlaw/Oden bodes well for our future. Bosh has never had a chance to show that, true, but he would not be numero uno here and maybe in a year or two wouldn't be numero dos. Can he take that?

Also, I am definitely down on players who talk contract bullshit during the season...during a playoff push. Either keep quiet or deal with it in the offseason!

 

[Natebishop3]

Bosh is very good, but there's no guarantee he sticks around in Portland (same with LA, to some extent, but at least Aldridge has grown here the last few years). Messing with the main 3 is dangerous, too, because they all complement each other so well.

I wouldn't be upset if we traded Aldridge for Bosh in the lineup, but I wouldn't be all too happy about it either. LA's high post ability and willingness to defer to Roy/Outlaw/Oden bodes well for our future. Bosh has never had a chance to show that, true, but he would not be numero uno here and maybe in a year or two wouldn't be numero dos. Can he take that?

Also, I am definitely down on players who talk contract bullshit during the season...during a playoff push. Either keep quiet or deal with it in the offseason!

Good point. Aldridge has been here through the worst of times, and now he is on a team that is on the cusp of making the playoffs. Bosh is going through a little trouble in Toronto and now he wants to bolt town (like so many before him). Raptors fans must really hate life at times. Pretty much any star they've had has wanted to skip town. Damon Stoudamire, Tracy McGrady, and now Bosh. I'm not sure if Vince wanted out, but he sand bagged it until they traded him.

You get the impression that Toronto is one of the least desirable destinations in the NBA.

 

[crowTrobot]

The cost is what, 5-6 million extra a year?

the cost would be immediate loss of all cap flexibility, but the actual dollars would be
a lot more than that.

best case if we traded today, assuming LMA would have signed for a little less than
max and bosh's 2010 deal is back-loaded -

09/10 bosh 15.8, LMA 5.8
10/11-12/13 bosh 57, LMA 39
+very conservatively 12 mil in extra luxury tax in 11/12 and 12/13 assuming
we have to max out oden.

that's $40 mil extra over the next 4 years, and it could easily be much
greater depending on when and by how much we exceed the tax limit.
also assuming we continue to have 3 max deals on the books the difference
stays 6-8 mil in 13/14 and beyond.

 

[drexlersdad]

Well the bigger problem would be if before that happened, Ben Gordon bolted to New York...and then Bosh and Lebron followed him there the next summer. Damn Knicks. They'd be stealing Duhon, Gordon, and Bosh from the Bulls in consecutive summers. Just building their damn team with ex-Bulls. And of course sign Lebron James too, who aspires to be like a guy that used to play for the Bulls.

yeah that worked out great for them last time they tried it with curry and crawford.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

If I were the Knicks, I would want Bosh and LeBron, or Bosh and Wade. I'm not 100% sold that a Wade/LeBron team could win it all. Bosh and LeBron would be a lethal inside/out combo. How many teams have won (not counting the Bulls) without a dominant big man?

the Celtics just did it...

 

[hasoos]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm guessing he's more tired of getting booed by his own fans when the team is trying to mount a fourth quarter comeback than he's worried about going to an immediate contender (although that wouldn't hurt).

If I was Chris Bosh, there's a lot to like about Chicago: a fairly strong history of fan support, a big market, a young stud point guard and a damn good front court mate in Luol Deng (assuming he's not part of the trade) and a chance to help build something in a new place.

I could see it happening and it working out.

Definitly. He would give them that talented front line guy to fill out the lineup. Teamed with Rose, they would be a team to be reckoned with in the east.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Uncle Ty, I agree that Bosh is a clear upgrade over where LMA is now, and the contract costs of having Bosh vice LMA make up for the uncertainty of where LMA will end up as well as the risk of Bosh leaving.

So if was Raef and LMA for Bosh, I probably wouldn't cry too much either way. I DON'T think the pros and cons stay in the favor of trading if we're giving up Rudy and 1sts.

 

[hasoos]

What I am finding amazing right now is all of you think that Portland is a more attractive place than Toronto. What exactly makes you think he would be any more willing to re-sign here than Toronto? He may just be all about getting his player marketing to make his cash. He might not give a shit about winning at all. If that is the case, there would be no reason for him to come here. If it's not about Bosh making more cash, than he isn't interested.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

Are you saying that KG isn't dominant? Or that he isn't big?

Either way, you are wrong on both counts. KG is a dominant big man.

Don't you dare insult the integrity of how I support KG, I'm one of the biggest T-Wolves fan/supporter as well as KG being my favorite player...

Granted I did make the poor assumtion of thinking he meant a Center in regards to "Dominant Big man" in which the Celtic have Perkins, which is far from dominant. In that respect I was wrong.

Please never again assume to think I don't think KG is dominant...as bad as it was to constantly see 'Sota get bumped out of the first round...KG was always one of the top Forwards...he's competitive and a sure-fire Hall of Famer!! Is and will be my favorite!

But no hard feeligns none the less

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What I am finding amazing right now is all of you think that Portland is a more attractive place than Toronto. What exactly makes you think he would be any more willing to re-sign here than Toronto? He may just be all about getting his player marketing to make his cash. He might not give a shit about winning at all. If that is the case, there would be no reason for him to come here. If it's not about Bosh making more cash, than he isn't interested.

He has already re-signed once in Toronto, right? I get the feeling he can just see the Raptors heading in the wrong direction. I think he can get plenty of national exposure as a Trailblazer.

I still haven't seen a good comparative analysis of Bosh and Aldridge's games to show why it is that everyone thinks that Bosh is clearly better. Yes, he's a better rebounder. But he's a good deal shorter. Can he guard perimeter players, like Aldridge can? Is his jumper as good as Aldridge's is? Can he co-exist with Oden? (Has he ever played with a dominant center other than last Summer?)

Yes he scores a lot and is a good rebounder. That much he has in common with Zach Randolph (who outscores and outrebounds Aldridge too). What's SO great about him, exactly? I get the impression most people gushing about him haven't seen him play that much.

 

[talman]

What I am finding amazing right now is all of you think that Portland is a more attractive place than Toronto.

Because most of us live here and are a little biased?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

He has already re-signed once in Toronto, right? I get the feeling he can just see the Raptors heading in the wrong direction. I think he can get plenty of national exposure as a Trailblazer.

I still haven't seen a good comparative analysis of Bosh and Aldridge's games to show why it is that everyone thinks that Bosh is clearly better. Yes, he's a better rebounder. But he's a good deal shorter. Can he guard perimeter players, like Aldridge can? Is his jumper as good as Aldridge's is? Can he co-exist with Oden? (Has he ever played with a dominant center other than last Summer?)

Yes he scores a lot and is a good rebounder. That much he has in common with Zach Randolph (who outscores and outrebounds Aldridge too). What's SO great about him, exactly? I get the impression most people gushing about him haven't seen him play that much.

Bosh is a good deal shorter? Last I checked he's only an inch shorter than Aldridge, I wouldn't say thats a good deal. And yes he is a better rebounder, what does height have to do with that? Dennis Rodman is arguably the best rebounder of all time and what was he? Like 6'7? Relating Bosh to Randolph in any way shape or form is downright laughable, have you watched much of Bosh? These comments make me think you haven't.

 

[crowTrobot]

And yes he is a better rebounder

that's debatable given that bosh isn't playing with joel/oden, and that over the last 2 years aldridge has more offensive rebounds in less minutes.

Relating Bosh to Randolph in any way shape or form is downright laughable, have you watched much of Bosh? These comments make me think you haven't.

i have. bosh isn't that much better than zach overall and their games are certainly comparable. because he was so hated here it's easy to forget that zach is a pretty damn good 1/1 offensive player and rebounder.