Politics Brittney Griner

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twobullz said:
So you think a QB in the XFL should be making the same money as Mahomes or one of the higher paid players in the NFL? No matter that one league brings in tons of revenue and the other struggles to be profitable? Then you are comparing men to men in the same pro sport. People try to make this a male female issue with the pay discrepancy, but it is not. It is all about league popularity and revenue.
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It's a guilt issue. There's no logic to it.
 
My goodness, not what I said or what I was referring to...the convo is about the reason why Griner felt the need to supplement her WNBA income, that's all.
 
yankeesince59 said:
My goodness, not what I said or what I was referring to...the convo is about the reason why Griner felt the need to supplement her WNBA income, that's all.
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You said "No one is going convince me that paying a male 82 times more money than a female is anywhere near equitable, regardless of the occupation." That no man is worth 82 times their female counter part. I just merely pointed out it is not a male female thing, like you implied but is about revenue , The base salary in the XFL is 59K Mahomes is making 40M. No one is feeling bad or expecting the NFL players to give up some of their salaries or anything for XFL players. Why should WNBA players be treated different then any other professional athlete in any other sport?
 
twobullz said:
You said "No one is going convince me that paying a male 82 times more money than a female is anywhere near equitable, regardless of the occupation." That no man is worth 82 times their female counter part. I just merely pointed out it is not a male female thing, like you implied but is about revenue , The base salary in the XFL is 59K Mahomes is making 40M. No one is feeling bad or expecting the NFL players to give up some of their salaries or anything for XFL players. Why should WNBA players be treated different then any other professional athlete in any other sport?
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Yes, I'm well aware of what I said...and yes, I still don't think it's OK for a male to make 82 times more than a female...you feel otherwise, that's fine.

But again, that's not how this convo began, but it morphed into a different direction as threads often do. The issue I took exception to was nate's idea that maybe if Griner had not been so greedy by wanting to supplement her income by playing overseas, she would not have been put in jail...and so, he did not feel sorry for her.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Yes, I'm well aware of what I said...and yes, I still don't think it's OK for a male to make 82 times more than a female...you feel otherwise, that's fine.

But again, that's not how this convo began, but it morphed into a different direction as threads often do. The issue I took exception to was nate's idea that maybe if Griner had not been so greedy by wanting to supplement her income by playing overseas, she would not have been put in jail...and so, he did not feel sorry for her.
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So you are okay with men making 82 times more then other men, but not more then women. Okay, just wanted to understand. I don't get why it is okay for men to make 82 times more then other men but not other women, but you think someone's pay should be based on their gender and not on the amount of income the produce for the company they work for. I think pay should be based on the profitability of their jobs not based on their gender, but I you feel otherwise and that is fine.

I personally feel bad for her, but she is an adult who made a poor choice in going to Russia with what was going on at the time and took a product that was illegal. Was the punishment harsh and excessive, yes, but that was her choice to take that risk.
 
twobullz said:
So you are okay with men making 82 times more then other men, but not more then women. Okay, just wanted to understand. I don't get why it is okay for men to make 82 times more then other men but not other women, but you think someone's pay should be based on their gender and not on the amount of income the produce for the company they work for. I think pay should be based on the profitability of their jobs not based on their gender, but I you feel otherwise and that is fine.

I personally feel bad for her, but she is an adult who made a poor choice in going to Russia with what was going on at the time and took a product that was illegal. Was the punishment harsh and excessive, yes, but that was her choice to take that risk.
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No, I never said that. And Griner had been playing in Russia for years as were many others...her mistake was taking a vape pen with her.
 
yankeesince59 said:
No, I never said that. And Griner had been playing in Russia for years as were many others...her mistake was taking a vape pen with her.
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So all players in all leagues should be paid equally? Greg Brown and Dame should have equal salaries is what you are saying? You said no man should make 82 times that of a female, but you also don't think any male should make 82 times more then another male, so all professional basketball players should have equal salaries, no matter their skill level? I am just curious where you draw the line.
 
twobullz said:
So all players in all leagues should be paid equally? Greg Brown and Dame should have equal salaries is what you are saying? You said no man should make 82 times that of a female, but you also don't think any male should make 82 times more then another male, so all professional basketball players should have equal salaries, no matter their skill level? I am just curious where you draw the line.
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No, I never said that either.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's not even remotely what I'm saying.

I'm saying that I don't feel sympathy for someone needing to supplement their income when they make over $200k a year. Let's not pretend like she's starving and needed to work in Russia to make ends meet. She makes more money than probably 99% of people in the US. She didn't NEED to work in Russia.
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Nobody said she needed to work in Russia. Only that there was more incentive for her to work in Russia than not. Incentive which most people would pursue in the same situation.

People tend to behave in a manner consistent with which they have the most incentive. Wanting a person to ignore this incentive for your own protection is not logical.

This kind of thinking is how we have high rates of violent crime and murder in our country than other wealthy countries, as well as worse health, less happiness, and lower educational scores.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I mean.... Brittney Griner's net worth is reportedly around $5 million. That's not too shabby. A lot of people could comfortably retire off that. And she's only 32.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11353445/Brittney-Griner-net-worth-2022.html

Diana Taurasi has a net worth of anywhere between $2 million and $5 million depending on the website. Personally I'd kill for that kind of money. When they retire they can go into coaching, or they can get a regular job like the rest of us. I get making hay while the sun is shining, but it's not like they're hurting for money.

I don't know why people always bring up what the men make. It's a different market with vastly different profit margins. This would be like saying all teachers should make the same money, ignoring the fact that there are college professors at the top and there are people who teach pre-school or daycare at the bottom. It would be like saying all lawyers should make the same money, ignoring that there are lawyers who play at a much higher level in the corporate world, and there are public defenders who make significantly less money doing what they do. Comparing athletes is apples and oranges. Even in the NBA, there are the LeBron's making $44.5 million per year and there's the guy making the vet minimum at the bottom. LeBron is paid that money because he brings in a lot of money. It's really simple economics.

But with all of that said, WNBA players are paid really good money compared to the rest of us regular folk to play a game. I'd wager most of them got a free education to play in college so they can leverage that education to either continue to work in sports or move on to another field when they retire. I'm sorry but I just don't accept the gripe that some people make about how Griner HAD to play in Russia to supplement her income. It's ridiculous to me. I have changed careers several times in the last 20 years and I haven't made even remotely close to even $1 million.
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Again, nobody said she had to do anything. Just that the incentives are set up so that most people in that situation would do it.

Case in point, she's worth nearly $5Mil because she played in Russia.

You yourself said you'd "kill" for that kind of money. Would you kill to avoid going to work in Russia a few years ago?

Because it sounds a lot like you'd make the same choice she did and take the paycheck in Russia.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Again, nobody said she had to do anything. Just that the incentives are set up so that most people in that situation would do it.

Case in point, she's worth nearly $5Mil because she played in Russia.

You yourself said you'd "kill" for that kind of money. Would you kill to avoid going to work in Russia a few years ago?

Because it sounds a lot like you'd make the same choice she did and take the paycheck in Russia.
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I would not. I would not work in a dangerous country to make money. I have a family. It's not worth the risk.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Each person's salary as a percentage of their company's revenue being completely irrelevant, I assume?
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The NBA created the WNBA. The NBA lost money the first several decades of it's existence, and it wouldn't exist today if the owners and league were unwilling to lose money.

It's not unreasonable for the NBA to guarantee WNBA players at least the same minimum salary per game as NBA players, which would work out to just over $400k per player or under $70 million per season.

Then teams would have to get serious about making money so they could afford to pay good players more.

And the NBA would have more incentive to advertise and boost visibility for the WNBA.

This helps align incentives the way they should be.
 
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None of the discussion about pay has anything to do with an American hostage held in Russia was released. To me that's a good thing.
 
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twobullz said:
You said "No one is going convince me that paying a male 82 times more money than a female is anywhere near equitable, regardless of the occupation." That no man is worth 82 times their female counter part. I just merely pointed out it is not a male female thing, like you implied but is about revenue , The base salary in the XFL is 59K Mahomes is making 40M. No one is feeling bad or expecting the NFL players to give up some of their salaries or anything for XFL players. Why should WNBA players be treated different then any other professional athlete in any other sport?
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One reason would be that there is no demand for XFL players in authoritarian countries.

WNBA players can make 10x the money they make here by going to authoritarian countries. That's a security risk.

Also, men aren't at risk to be victimized overseas the way women are.

The NBA specifically should be doing a better job of helping their creation with marketing, etc. But there is incentive for the government to apply some leverage as well.
 
Phatguysrule said:
One reason would be that there is no demand for XFL players in authoritarian countries.

WNBA players can make 10x the money they make here by going to authoritarian countries. That's a security risk.

Also, men aren't at risk to be victimized overseas the way women are.

The NBA specifically should be doing a better job of helping their creation with marketing, etc. But there is incentive for the government to apply some leverage as well.
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Couldn't you say that since more then half the WNBA teams draw less then 6K people to their home games there is not much demand for the game here? The league has been marketed and pushed and after 26 years there just isn't a demand for it.

No one is making them go over seas. There are plenty of other jobs, just like no one is making the XFL players play for much less. This is their choice. They know what the risks are. No amount of marketing is going to increase the demand here.

So tell me about Marc Fogel. US Teacher in Russia prison for a half ounce marijuana. Sentenced to 14 years in Prison. Longer sentence then Griner, but no uproar. Here is a male teacher who has it even worse , but tell me again how he is not being victimized here and abroad. Explain to me how he didn't deserve to be the one swapped instead of Griner? He was in prison longer, no uproar for him though.
 
twobullz said:
So tell me about Marc Fogel. US Teacher in Russia prison for a half ounce marijuana. Sentenced to 14 years in Prison. Longer sentence then Griner, but no uproar. Here is a male teacher who has it even worse , but tell me again how he is not being victimized here and abroad. Explain to me how he didn't deserve to be the one swapped instead of Griner? He was in prison longer, no uproar for him though.
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SHHHHHHH .... that will just fly in the face of the strawman argument that loves to be thrown around here
 
twobullz said:
Couldn't you say that since more then half the WNBA teams draw less then 6K people to their home games there is not much demand for the game here?
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Of course you could say that. It's very obviously a factual statement.

twobullz said:
The league has been marketed and pushed and after 26 years there just isn't a demand for it.
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The league hasn't been marketed or pushed very well at all.

twobullz said:
No one is making them go over seas. There are plenty of other jobs, just like no one is making the XFL players play for much less. This is their choice. They know what the risks are.
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Correct. And the US found ourselves in a poor negotiating position as a result of those incentives leading her and many others to make that choice.

twobullz said:
No amount of marketing is going to increase the demand here.
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This is almost certainly untrue.

twobullz said:
So tell me about Marc Fogel. US Teacher in Russia prison for a half ounce marijuana. Sentenced to 14 years in Prison. Longer sentence then Griner, but no uproar. Here is a male teacher who has it even worse , but tell me again how he is not being victimized here and abroad. Explain to me how he didn't deserve to be the one swapped instead of Griner? He was in prison longer, no uproar for him though.
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He's a man. If I were in his position (and in my right mind) I would request that she be let go.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Isn't this a women and children first thing?

1 woman, 2 men, shouldn't the woman have been rescued first?
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Not if A: the men are white B: the woman is a POC and potentially homosexual and C: it somehow can make Joe Biden look bad.
 
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