BRoy interview coming up live (MERGED)

[Ed O]

How do you know those players weren't offered five year contracts, only to want less years for their own flexibility? Link? You seem certain about your stance. Give me a link that shows that Cleveland did not want to lock James up for five years.

Intent is irrelevant.

Nobody cares WHY someone bought a house for $200,000. They only care that they bought a house for $200,000. It doesn't matter that the buyer would have been willing to pay $220,000 and the owner had to kill herself because she got $7,000 less than she needed.

The numbers have been established. Roy can ONLY point (as far as I can tell; I'd love to see more examples) to one example in recent NBA history where a player has received an extension of five years max dollars coming off of a rookie contract.

If people think he's SO CLEARLY worth that, then pleased give me evidence that he is. Show me more players that have received that many years maxed out as an extension.

The Blazers don't (or shouldn't) have to worry about whether the Hornets WANTED to pay more for Chris Paul, and they shouldn't (or don't) have to care about Dwyane Wade giving the Heat a "break". They can point to those contracts and the current economic crisis and the impending CBA war and say, with an entirely straight face, that he's getting the same extension that other magnificent players did.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Also, I'm waiting for you to give an example of how Brandon Roy can be playing for another team before the 2011-12 season without the Blazers permission.

You said my statement was simply not true, and I'm waiting for you to support that with an example of how events might transpire.

Ed O.

Still waiting...

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Still waiting...

Ed O.

Of course the Blazers have to give "permission" for Roy to leave. This only shows your own view on how you would treat Roy in this situation, or any other star attraction for that matter. This also doesn't mean that Roy would actually play for the Blazers.

Waiting for the statement next week...

 

[PapaG]

The Blazers don't (or shouldn't) have to worry about whether the Hornets WANTED to pay more for Chris Paul, and they shouldn't (or don't) have to care about Dwyane Wade giving the Heat a "break". They can point to those contracts and the current economic crisis and the impending CBA war and say, with an entirely straight face, that he's getting the same extension that other magnificent players did.

Ed O.

And he can say those players only wanted to commit to their teams for 3/4 years before coming a UFA, while he wants to commit for five years.

Way to piss off your talent, Ed.

 

[Ed O]

And he can say those players only wanted to commit to their teams for 3/4 years before coming a UFA, while he wants to commit for five years.

Way to piss off your talent, Ed.

Do you think that he is doing the Blazers a FAVOR?

Really?

It's clear that he wants the fifth year as security. Whether it's because he's especially risk averse or because he believes that the CBA is a wildcard that might hose him doesn't really matter.

He WANTS the fifth year. The Blazers don't want to give it to him. How can he say that he knows what's better for the team than they do?

Again: Roy is not stupid. He wouldn't say that because it is, on its face, ludicrous.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Of course the Blazers have to give "permission" for Roy to leave. This only shows your own view on how you would treat Roy in this situation, or any other star attraction for that matter. This also doesn't mean that Roy would actually play for the Blazers.

Waiting for the statement next week...

Ah. Because I am pretty sure that I made a statement and then you said it was "simply wrong".

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Do you think that he is doing the Blazers a FAVOR?
Really?

It's clear that he wants the fifth year as security. Whether it's because he's especially risk averse or because he believes that the CBA is a wildcard that might hose him doesn't really matter.

He WANTS the fifth year. The Blazers don't want to give it to him. How can he say that he knows what's better for the team than they do?

Again: Roy is not stupid. He wouldn't say that because it is, on its face, ludicrous.

Ed O.

It doesn't matter what I think. It's what Roy thinks.

 

[Ed O]

It doesn't matter what I think. It's what Roy thinks.

Do you think he's stupid?

Ed O.

 

[superfly4201]

Wheels said today that he had inside info about the negotiations that he couldn't discuss and that these issues are not out in public. You know it has to do with injuries.

 

[STOMP]

"Permission" sounds so slave-like, Ed. As does your view on how to treat African-American workers from a lily-white Vulcan office while being in a lily-white community. If it is about "permission", then why offer Roy anything at all? Clearly, you have no experience on how to treat elite talent, especially when the Vulcans offer Hedo five years and Roy four years. Roy has made the team much more than a few million dollars on a rookie contract. Shitting on him now, as you seem to advocate, puts you in Vulcanland for me.

do you?

I've been laughing a lot at your posts, but bringing race into it is a topper... you seem very desperate

STOMP

 

[BBert]

Wow! That's quite the thread. I did listen to the interview. He didn't sound upset to me. Not one bit. He sounded in good spirits, and he sounded as if he clearly understands the business aspect of negotiating a new contract. I got no sense he was taking the negotiations as some personal or professional affront. I'm confident he will get a contract similar to those of other players of his caliber. Why wouldn't he?

 

[Ed O]

Wheels said today that he had inside info about the negotiations that he couldn't discuss and that these issues are not out in public. You know it has to do with injuries.

I hope not. I'd rather have it be hardball negotiations than that there's something wrong with Roy...

Ed O.

 

[e.l.e.]

Haven't had time to read the entire thread, so sorry if this has already been brought up. Regarding the reasoning behind the 4 year offer to Roy and now Millsap...

I think it's at least partially due (if not largely due) to the looming expiration of the CBA in 2011 (I'm certain the NBA will let it expire instead of extending it another year). The team may be trying to limit their financial responsibilities beyond that point due to the uncertainty of what will follow. I think in the current economic climate, Stern will be looking for major concessions and a work stoppage seems pretty likely. In the end, I think longterm gauranteed contracts will be a major issue, and I think Stern will try to go the NFL route. I have no idea what'll happen, and I'm sure nobody really does.

So with the salary cap falling substantially, the economic climate, the looming CBA, and in Roy's case a history of injury sprinkled in, I think there should be major concerns to maxing anyone out right now for 5 years, although I think if anyone deserves it it's Roy. And, keep in mind that Roy's negotiations will also have a big impact on Aldridge's negotiations, and anyone else. It's easy to get caught up in the importance of these two guys, but it's asking a lot of any team to just throw over $140 million at two guys right now (due to the reasons I listed). I've been amazed at some of the contracts other teams have given inferior players this offseason, and I'm sure that plays into the public perception that the Blazers are acting cheap. I'm not amazed that the Blazers appear at least a little reluctant to follow suite, unless they feel they have to (as I'm guessing was the case with their offer to Hedo).

But I don't think it's time to panic and start believing the Blazers are going to make Roy or Aldridge mad enough to want to leave. Comments by agents are going to be a little exaggerated, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't erase all the goodwill that's been built up between Roy, Aldridge, and Portland. I think they'll both end up very happy and financial set, and I doubt it'll take much longer. I just don't think it's as simple as throwing max deals at them, even though it feels like that's what the Blazers should do at first glance.

 

[PapaG]

Do you think he's stupid?

Ed O.

Do you think Cleveland and Miami wish they had LBJ and Wade, respectively, locked up for 3 more years instead of 1 more year? Or did they want to have them both be UFA's next summer?

 

[PapaG]

do you?

I've been laughing a lot at your posts, but bringing race into it is a topper... you seem very desperate

STOMP

As I pointed out, I made an absurd post to counter Ed's own absurd posts about James and Wade being at all relevant to Roy's contract situation.

I laugh at your posts all of the time, though, so I'm glad we can give each other some entertainment.

 

[BBert]

Haven't had time to read the entire thread, so sorry if this has already been brought up. Regarding the reasoning behind the 4 year offer to Roy and now Millsap...

I think it's at least partially due (if not largely due) to the looming expiration of the CBA in 2011 (I'm certain the NBA will let it expire instead of extending it another year). The team may be trying to limit their financial responsibilities beyond that point due to the uncertainty of what will follow. I think in the current economic climate, Stern will be looking for major concessions and a work stoppage seems pretty likely. In the end, I think longterm gauranteed contracts will be a major issue, and I think Stern will try to go the NFL route. I have no idea what'll happen, and I'm sure nobody really does.

So with the salary cap falling substantially, the economic climate, the looming CBA, and in Roy's case a history of injury sprinkled in, I think there should be major concerns to maxing anyone out right now for 5 years, although I think if anyone deserves it it's Roy. And, keep in mind that Roy's negotiations will also have a big impact on Aldridge's negotiations, and anyone else. It's easy to get caught up in the importance of these two guys, but it's asking a lot of any team to just throw over $140 million at two guys right now (due to the reasons I listed). I've been amazed at some of the contracts other teams have given inferior players this offseason, and I'm sure that plays into the public perception that the Blazers are acting cheap. I'm not amazed that the Blazers appear at least a little reluctant to follow suite, unless they feel they have to (as I'm guessing was the case with their offer to Hedo).

But I don't think it's time to panic and start believing the Blazers are going to make Roy or Aldridge mad enough to want to leave. Comments by agents are going to be a little exaggerated, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't erase all the goodwill that's been built up between Roy, Aldridge, and Portland. I think they'll both end up very happy and financial set, and I doubt it'll take much longer. I just don't think it's as simple as throwing max deals at them, even though it feels like that's what the Blazers should do at first glance.

Repped. Good post. And you should grab a drink and a cigar and read the thread. It's a hoot.

 

[PapaG]

Haven't had time to read the entire thread, so sorry if this has already been brought up. Regarding the reasoning behind the 4 year offer to Roy and now Millsap...

I think it's at least partially due (if not largely due) to the looming expiration of the CBA in 2011 (I'm certain the NBA will let it expire instead of extending it another year). The team may be trying to limit their financial responsibilities beyond that point due to the uncertainty of what will follow. I think in the current economic climate, Stern will be looking for major concessions and a work stoppage seems pretty likely. In the end, I think longterm gauranteed contracts will be a major issue, and I think Stern will try to go the NFL route. I have no idea what'll happen, and I'm sure nobody really does.

So with the salary cap falling substantially, the economic climate, the looming CBA, and in Roy's case a history of injury sprinkled in, I think there should be major concerns to maxing anyone out right now for 5 years, although I think if anyone deserves it it's Roy. And, keep in mind that Roy's negotiations will also have a big impact on Aldridge's negotiations, and anyone else. It's easy to get caught up in the importance of these two guys, but it's asking a lot of any team to just throw over $140 million at two guys right now (due to the reasons I listed). I've been amazed at some of the contracts other teams have given inferior players this offseason, and I'm sure that plays into the public perception that the Blazers are acting cheap. I'm not amazed that the Blazers appear at least a little reluctant to follow suite, unless they feel they have to (as I'm guessing was the case with their offer to Hedo).

But I don't think it's time to panic and start believing the Blazers are going to make Roy or Aldridge mad enough to want to leave. Comments by agents are going to be a little exaggerated, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't erase all the goodwill that's been built up between Roy, Aldridge, and Portland. I think they'll both end up very happy and financial set, and I doubt it'll take much longer. I just don't think it's as simple as throwing max deals at them, even though it feels like that's what the Blazers should do at first glance.

Thanks for the post, KP. Appreciate the input!

 

[e.l.e.]

Thanks for the post, KP. Appreciate the input!

Was it that obvious? Damn.

 

[PapaG]

Wow! That's quite the thread. I did listen to the interview. He didn't sound upset to me. Not one bit. He sounded in good spirits, and he sounded as if he clearly understands the business aspect of negotiating a new contract. I got no sense he was taking the negotiations as some personal or professional affront. I'm confident he will get a contract similar to those of other players of his caliber. Why wouldn't he?

He also texted Wheeler personally after the interview to say he was "frustrated and disappointed", and that he'd be putting out a formal statement next week.

Yuck it up!!!

 

[PapaG]

Wheels said today that he had inside info about the negotiations that he couldn't discuss and that these issues are not out in public. You know it has to do with injuries.

No, I don't know that. Do you have a source?

 

[BBert]

"Frustrated and disappointed" does not necessarily equal "Angry and fed up." The printed words are less than 80% of the information being conveyed. Without knowing the context, vocal intonations and body language, it seems a leap of negative faith to assume the worst possible scenario.

 

[PapaG]

"Frustrated and disappointed" does not necessarily equal "Angry and fed up." The printed words are less than 80% of the information being conveyed. Without knowing the context, vocal intonations and body language, it seems a leap of negative faith to assume the worst possible scenario.

I'm not assuming anything, but the fact is those words are out there in the public domain. They didn't need to be, so I'll comment on them as I see fit and post about hypotheticals that could ensue.

 

[maxiep]

I do not think he's AUTOMATICALLY worth the maximum salary, no.

The economy is in shambles, with no recovery guaranteed. The NBA salary cap is nosediving. There's a labor battle brewing in 2011 with the NBAPA.

The Blazers are well within their rights to say to Brandon and his representation, "Understanding the risks of things continuing to go bad or maybe get worse, we believe it's fair for you to share some of that risk with us. Because of that, we are unwilling to give you a maximum salary extension."

Might he walk? Sure. Might he blow out his knee before his rookie scale contract has expired? Yes.

Might the economy continue to go down the crapper and the NBA salary cap continue to shrink and free agency dramatically curtailed under the new CBA to combat high salaries? Absolutely.

Brandon Roy should not assume he deserves what players in happier, healthier, and wealthier times received. And I don't think that Blazers fans should be upset that the Blazers don't want to automatically treat him that way.

Ed O.

Ed, you're spot on. Repped.

 

[alex42083]

"Frustrated and disappointed" does not necessarily equal "Angry and fed up." The printed words are less than 80% of the information being conveyed. Without knowing the context, vocal intonations and body language, it seems a leap of negative faith to assume the worst possible scenario.

The fact that it's gotten this far and our franchise player is "frustrated" and "disappointed" is the thing that's worrisome to me. And if it was up to KP, I'm sure he'd have him signed so it's gotta be someone above him who has no real attachment to the Blazers, who has decided to play hard ball with the guy who has got the franchise back on the track on the court and financially.

 

[PapaG]

Ed, you're spot on. Repped.

Brandon Roy should not assume he deserves what players in happier, healthier, and wealthier times received. And I don't think that Blazers fans should be upset that the Blazers don't want to automatically treat him that way

.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with being upset at how Roy is being lowballed on years. You don't live here, so you don't know personally what he means to this community and what he had done for this city. It adds to your objectivity, but in this instance, subjectivity plays a large role. Hence some emotional reactions, and arguing with a legitimate opinion by trying to delegitimize it seems unproductive.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

This is all Barack Obama's fault. I knew it.

 

[PapaG]

Actually Portland would save MILLIONS in that situation.

	        1	        2	        3	        4	        5		raise	Total		
5 yr max ext	13520000	14939600	16359200	17778800	19198400	1419600	81796000
4 yr max ext	13520000	14939600	16359200	17778800			1419600	62597600
5 yr off sheet	12500000	13500000	14500000	15500000	16500000	1000000	72500000

The maximum salary next year dips about $250k to $13,520,000. If the salary cap goes down to about $50m, then the maximum salary would dip about another million (when the salary cap was $49.5m in 2005-06, the maximum salary for 0-6 was $12m, so I gave another $500k cushion).

In addition to the lower starting salary, rasises are restricted to 8% when another team gives an offer sheet, rather than the 10.5% the Blazers can offer in an extension.

Portland would still end up paying $10m more by matching a max 5 year offer sheet, but they would save themselves almost $10m by giving him a 5 year max deal themselves.

Ed O.

It is my understanding that the actual max contract value on this extension isn't actually set until next summer's salary cap is set. Meaning there is no financial advantage over an agreement to extend now over waiting until next summer to either sign or match a max deal. Perhaps I am wrong about that, though. As for the increases on the cap, if you're right, then it is obvious that the team is dicking Roy over for a few million dollars on a 4 year vs. 5 year offer, and Roy still would make more money by waiting for a 5 year deal over signing a 4 year extenstion, no matter who offers it.

 

[PapaG]

He's getting offered the EXACT SAME contract as every other max-type player recently (other than Carmelo Anthony) has received after his rookie scale contract: four years of max money.

You acting like that has not established a precedent is weird.
Ed O.

Bargnani's extension set the precedent for this market. Anthony, Wade, etc., have nothing to do with what this rookie class is being offered by their teams. 5 years/$50 for Bargnani. THAT is the market, and THAT is the precedent that is applicable to both Roy and LMA.

 

[hasoos]

Bargnani's extension set the precedent for this market. Anthony, Wade, etc., have nothing to do with what this rookie class is being offered by their teams. 5 years/$50 for Bargnani. THAT is the market, and THAT is the precedent that is applicable to both Roy and LMA.

You are correct sir. It is "What have you done for me lately." The latest if Bargiani setting the pace because he was the first extension signed this year. This just goes to show how if one dumb ass GM fucks it up, it screws over the rest of the league.

 

[alex42083]

It's just weird to me that everywhere else, everywhere in Portland that I go and talk to people about this, seems like a no-brainer that Brandon Roy has deserved everything that he should get and a five-year deal.
But here? I feel like I'm in the minority about this, and lotta people think Roy isn't worth it, he's going to have injury problems and management is always right and blah blah blah. Oh well.