BRoy interview coming up live (MERGED)

[PapaG]

It's just weird to me that everywhere else, everywhere in Portland that I go and talk to people about this, seems like a no-brainer that Brandon Roy has deserved everything that he should get and a five-year deal.
But here? I feel like I'm in the minority about this, and lotta people think Roy isn't worth it, he's going to have injury problems and management is always right and blah blah blah. Oh well.

Frankly, I think at least part of the problem is that I am one of the people advocating signing Roy to at least a 5 year deal. At least one poster here has an automatic contrarian reflex to any strong opinion I hold, and weaker posters at times seem to latch on to that opposing viewpoint. Even my wife heard on Z100 about how Roy is being dicked over on years and wondered what the hell is going on with the Blazers.

 

[axs88]

Frankly, I think at least part of the problem is that I am one of the people advocating signing Roy to at least a 5 year deal. At least one poster here has an automatic contrarian reflex to any strong opinion I hold, and weaker posters at times seem to latch on to that opposing viewpoint.

Oh, I am sure that's what's happening.

 

[Sedatedfork]

I think they should sign Roy to 5 years (and feel lucky that he is asking for 5). If it was only 4 years, the economy could turn, and so could the max contract. Face it, if Roy breaks down, this team isn't going anywhere either. Might as well go for broke if you are trying to win a championship.

 

[Ed O]

It is my understanding that the actual max contract value on this extension isn't actually set until next summer's salary cap is set. Meaning there is no financial advantage over an agreement to extend now over waiting until next summer to either sign or match a max deal. Perhaps I am wrong about that, though. As for the increases on the cap, if you're right, then it is obvious that the team is dicking Roy over for a few million dollars on a 4 year vs. 5 year offer, and Roy still would make more money by waiting for a 5 year deal over signing a 4 year extenstion, no matter who offers it.

Deron Williams, according to Storyteller's site, is going to make 13,758,000 in 2009-10 in spite of the max salary being 13,520,500 according to the NBA Salary cap FAQ for 2009-10.

That indicates to me that the salary is set at the time the extension is made and not at a later date.

And of course the team is "dicking Brandon over". Why would they put up any kind of fight if there was nothing in it for them?

Of course, "dicking Brandon over" is code for "negotiating".

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Frankly, I think at least part of the problem is that I am one of the people advocating signing Roy to at least a 5 year deal. At least one poster here has an automatic contrarian reflex to any strong opinion I hold, and weaker posters at times seem to latch on to that opposing viewpoint. Even my wife heard on Z100 about how Roy is being dicked over on years and wondered what the hell is going on with the Blazers.

Well... if your wife heard the wizards on Z100 pontificating on the matter, I'm sure you're right!

That's like reading something about the Cold War on the restroom wall and wondering why the US built so many nukes.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

It's just weird to me that everywhere else, everywhere in Portland that I go and talk to people about this, seems like a no-brainer that Brandon Roy has deserved everything that he should get and a five-year deal.
But here? I feel like I'm in the minority about this, and lotta people think Roy isn't worth it, he's going to have injury problems and management is always right and blah blah blah. Oh well.

What's weird to me is that you keep tossing in posts about what large groups of people on this forum are doing that I can't see even a single person doing.

First it was hordes of people telling other fans what they should care about.

Now it's hordes of people saying Roy isn't worth a max deal.

 

[alex42083]

What's weird to me is that you keep tossing in posts about what large groups of people on this forum are doing that I can't see even a single person doing.

First it was hordes of people telling other fans what they should care about.

Now it's hordes of people saying Roy isn't worth a max deal.

Hordes? Now that's a pretty strong adjective to use there. Where did I say in the other post that a large group of fans were telling others what to feel?
A few people jumped on LittleAlex for getting 'sickened' over the situation, like it was horrible to be feel any emotion about it or as if saying, "Why would you feel anything? Geez. Get over it." And I just stood up for the guy and could sympathize what he was feeling, is that wrong? I think this situation about Roy was the last thing people wanted to hear this summer.

And regarding hordes of people saying Roy isn't worth a max deal, eh.. you're probably right about it not being hordes or 'lots of people' like I said. It's just frustrating to read how we all thought probably a month ago Roy has earned a max deal and this wasn't going to be an issue, and now our team would rather play hard ball with the guy responsible for turning around the franchise, and some people bring up whether Roy can even last five years with his injuries.
I'm just frustrated and want to see something good and positive happen for once this summer for this team. It's nothing personal with anyone here. We all want to see our team do well and get what they want, right?

 

[superfly4201]

Its easy to sit on the sideline and have an opinion on this when its not your money. Sure, I want Brandon to be here for ten years. But if I had to shell out the money personally I'd want to really think it through given injuries and the economy.

In a round about way, being a season ticket holder, it is my money.

 

[alex42083]

Its easy to sit on the sideline and have an opinion on this when its not your money. Sure, I want Brandon to be here for ten years. But if I had to shell out the money personally I'd want to really think it through given injuries and the economy.

In a round about way, being a season ticket holder, it is my money.

Of course, millions of bucks are on the line. But then we were re-assured from KP that when the time came, Paul Allen would open the checkbook and try to keep a contender here if he knew we had something special. There was this whole "Let's go for it!" thing as well.

And we've shown we've been willing to hand out big money to free agents already, so why not Roy? If money was that big of an issue, I'd rather them not go after Millsap for $8-9 mil per, or not try to lure Hedo with $10 mil per.. and use that money to keep Roy and Aldridge here.

 

[Minstrel]

Hordes? Now that's a pretty strong adjective to use there. Where did I say in the other post that a large group of fans were telling others what to feel?

Sorry, I don't think you put a number on it. To me, it seemed that you were implying that a significant number of people were doing it.

A few people jumped on LittleAlex for getting 'sickened' over the situation, like it was horrible to be feel any emotion about it or as if saying, "Why would you feel anything? Geez. Get over it." And I just stood up for the guy and could sympathize what he was feeling, is that wrong

No, and it's not wrong for other people to be surprised that he was "sickened" with no actual information about the negotiations, beyond each side's media remarks. No one was telling him what to feel. They were saying that they felt he was overreacting. Why are you telling other people what they should or shouldn't feel?

And regarding hordes of people saying Roy isn't worth a max deal, eh.. you're probably right about it not being hordes or 'lots of people' like I said.

Has even one person said he's not worth the max? Ed and I have been the ones you'd probably consider on the "other side" of the debate and I've explicitly said Roy is worth it and Ed has simply said that Roy isn't "automatically entitled" to a max year-max salary deal, free of negotiations...not that Roy isn't worth the max.

I can see that there's a lot of frustration. It surprises me a bit (the intensity over both free agency and Roy extension), but I ascribe it to the "always on" nature of this forum, even when there's no news. Every little thing gets obsessed over, in the absence of actual developments. I don't think the Roy extension is really a big deal as things stand now and I think the overwhelming likelihood is that he's a Blazer for many more years. As for free agency, well, no single team ever has a good chance to make a huge strike, but if Portland gets Millsap, I'd see that as a big win.

Basically, I have a hard time seeing this off-season as a disaster or the team in any kind of crisis. The team has arguably the best roster (counting future, as well) in the league and while the off-season has been short of exciting developments (which is disappointing), it's not that unexpected or disastrous. IMO, anyway.

 

[superfly4201]

Of course, millions of bucks are on the line. But then we were re-assured from KP that when the time came, Paul Allen would open the checkbook and try to keep a contender here if he knew we had something special. There was this whole "Let's go for it!" thing as well.

And we've shown we've been willing to hand out big money to free agents already, so why not Roy? If money was that big of an issue, I'd rather them not go after Millsap for $8-9 mil per, or not try to lure Hedo with $10 mil per.. and use that money to keep Roy and Aldridge here.

Its gotta be spread around so our liability isn't all in one place or two. They'll get it done. Its all posturing by agents right now.

 

[Idog1976]

I can see that there's a lot of frustration. It surprises me a bit (the intensity over both free agency and Roy extension), but I ascribe it to the "always on" nature of this forum, even when there's no news. Every little thing gets obsessed over, in the absence of actual developments. I don't think the Roy extension is really a big deal as things stand now and I think the overwhelming likelihood is that he's a Blazer for many more years. As for free agency, well, no single team ever has a good chance to make a huge strike, but if Portland gets Millsap, I'd see that as a big win.

Basically, I have a hard time seeing this off-season as a disaster or the team in any kind of crisis. The team has arguably the best roster (counting future, as well) in the league and while the off-season has been short of exciting developments (which is disappointing), it's not that unexpected or disastrous. IMO, anyway.

Absolutely spot on. I firmly believe the "Disaster offseason" is a function of the media. Once bored small one sport town commentators try and stir the pot and get some additional attention by making over the top claims you get a guaranteed echo-chamber effect nationally. Let's not forget that Quick and Canzano's employer is barely treading water right now and any attention they can generate is good attention. I've noticed that especially in the past 10 years or so sports writers have become exceptionally bi-polar and over the top. They are either putting people on pedestals or absolutely tearing them down, or more likely, both.

When you look out on national sports commentary you see guys like Colin Cowherd, Jim Rome (sadly a reasonable guy compared to some) and Bill Simmons and they are totally over the top at all times. It's pretty bad when I respect the talent of Bill "I hate Oden's guts" Simmons, but at least he has talent. I mean Quick is reasonable when he keeps his own opinions out of the subject matter and just weaves a story but Canzano is...well...Canzano.

Once Quick and Canzano wrote their pieces it was certain they would be for paid subscription on ESPN insider rumors and equally certain that if nothing else was going on folks like WOJ would pick them up and run. There seem to be some writers with vendetta's (WOJ with KP and Simmons with Oden) and others who just appeal to sensationalism and venom (Canzano and Cowherd). Over all the media echo chamber guarantees that even wingnut writers will be echoed if news is slow.

There are only a few questionable things this summer. One of them to me is the Roy thing just because I think you roll the dice on this guy and give him what he wants, he's special and top 7 PER already in his 3rd year. You pay that guy. On the flip side the near signing of Hedo horrified me as he has albatross contract written all over him. I worry that KP is over playing his hand with Millsap and I don't approve of potentially alienating trade partners by being so heavy handed. I think however, KP and Tom Penn are great for front office guys and we are lucky to have them.

Does anyone have a theory about why the 4 year contracts? Is the Rose Garden contract up in 4 years? Any major FA's that year? I've read the idea about being able to re-tool after a possible strike year 2011. Is there any other reason?

 

[alex42083]

Why are you telling other people what they should or shouldn't feel?

haha.. I don't think I've ever told anyone how they should feel. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not.

Has even one person said he's not worth the max? Ed and I have been the ones you'd probably consider on the "other side" of the debate and I've explicitly said Roy is worth it and Ed has simply said that Roy isn't "automatically entitled" to a max year-max salary deal, free of negotiations...not that Roy isn't worth the max.

I think the actual debate is max year-max salary now vs. 4-year max salary vs. match a max offer from another team next summer or whenever that restricted FA period is for him and save some cash.
That's the penny-pinching in my eyes that's going on regarding whether Roy deserves the absolute max. And Brandon just hasn't proven anything to me otherwise that he doesn't deserve it, when he wants to be here. I'm sure something will get done, too, but hearing your franchise player talk about being "frustrated" along with all the other stuff this summer... it wasn't exactly music to the ears and the emotional outbursts were pretty much expected.

I can see that there's a lot of frustration. It surprises me a bit (the intensity over both free agency and Roy extension), but I ascribe it to the "always on" nature of this forum, even when there's no news. Every little thing gets obsessed over, in the absence of actual developments. I don't think the Roy extension is really a big deal as things stand now and I think the overwhelming likelihood is that he's a Blazer for many more years. As for free agency, well, no single team ever has a good chance to make a huge strike, but if Portland gets Millsap, I'd see that as a big win.

Basically, I have a hard time seeing this off-season as a disaster or the team in any kind of crisis. The team has arguably the best roster (counting future, as well) in the league and while the off-season has been short of exciting developments (which is disappointing), it's not that unexpected or disastrous. IMO, anyway.

The people who think we're in crisis are the ones who sprout off about KP should get fired, which obviously I don't agree with. I don't think anyone would admit the summer being an absolute disaster.. but disappointing? Yes.

 

[PapaG]

Deron Williams, according to Storyteller's site, is going to make 13,758,000 in 2009-10 in spite of the max salary being 13,520,500 according to the NBA Salary cap FAQ for 2009-10.

That indicates to me that the salary is set at the time the extension is made and not at a later date.

And of course the team is "dicking Brandon over". Why would they put up any kind of fight if there was nothing in it for them?

Of course, "dicking Brandon over" is code for "negotiating".

Ed O.

The salary is set when the contract becomes valid. That is my understanding, regardless of any lower of the cap in future years. Otherwise, Kirilenko wouldn't be getting $17 million/per right now, would he? At least that's what I've heard reported about max extensions signed this off-season. The max figure doesn't lock until next year IIRC.

 

[Minstrel]

haha.. I don't think I've ever told anyone how they should feel. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not.

I don't think you are, no. I was using your own words to show that you can phrase any disagreement as "telling people what they should think." I don't think people were telling LittleAlex what to think. They were disagreeing with him and expressing surprise at what he thought.

I think the actual debate is max year-max salary now vs. 4-year max salary

That seems to be a/the debate in the negotiations between the team and Roy. Is anyone on this forum saying they think that Roy isn't worth a 5 year max deal? I haven't seen anyone say that.

 

[PapaG]

I don't think you are, no. I was using your own words to show that you can phrase any disagreement as "telling people what they should think." I don't think people were telling LittleAlex what to think. They were disagreeing with him and expressing surprise at what he thought.



That seems to be a/the debate in the negotiations between the team and Roy. Is anyone on this forum saying they think that Roy isn't worth a 5 year max deal? I haven't seen anyone say that.

We have a producer here who posted that people shouldn't be upset about this situation.

 

[Minstrel]

We have a producer here who posted that people shouldn't be upset about this situation.

In his opinion. Are Producers not allowed to have opinions now?

 

[Nikolokolus]

The salary is set when the contract becomes valid. That is my understanding, regardless of any lower of the cap in future years. Otherwise, Kirilenko wouldn't be getting $17 million/per right now, would he? At least that's what I've heard reported about max extensions signed this off-season. The max figure doesn't lock until next year IIRC.

That's my understanding of the CBA (though I could be wrong) and with the projected cap going down by up to 7 million dollars, those max contracts aren't going to be quite what they used to be.

 

[PapaG]

In his opinion. Are Producers not allowed to have opinions now?

I was only pointing out the one instance where somebody tried to dictate the debate based on how they thought other posters should act. He happens to be a producer.

 

[Minstrel]

I was only pointing out the one instance where somebody tried to dictate the debate based on how they thought other posters should act.

Well, in that case, posters are constantly trying to "dictate the debate based on how they thought other posters should act." I thought this was about something harsher like, "Stop having emotion about your favourite team, think how I do!" I haven't seen anything like that. Just saying "I don't think people should consider this a big deal" seems pretty mild to me.

 

[PapaG]

Well, in that case, posters are constantly trying to "dictate the debate based on how they thought other posters should act." I thought this was about something harsher like, "Stop having emotion about your favourite team, think how I do!" I haven't seen anything like that. Just saying "I don't think people should consider this a big deal" seems pretty mild to me.

Then why did you take alex's post out of context and (jokingly, I'll assume) assign meaning to it? You seem to be posting out of both sides of your keyboard. I certainly feel anybody can feel however they want about the Roy contract talks. I certainly understand that there are opinions that I don't agree with, yet I don't try to devalue their opinion by making a definitive statement about how I feel people should feel about it.

 

[Minstrel]

Then why did you take alex's post out of context and (jokingly, I'll assume) assign meaning to it?

I didn't take it out of context. I was disagreeing with him that people were telling others how they should feel in any meaningful way. He was, to me, suggesting that certain people were being victimized in some way. I don't share that perception.

 

[PapaG]

I didn't take it out of context. I was disagreeing with him that people were telling others how they should feel in any meaningful way. He was, to me, suggesting that certain people were being victimized in some way. I don't share that perception.

Why personalize his opinion versus, say, somebody that you agree with?

 

[Minstrel]

Why personalize his opinion versus, say, somebody that you agree with?

I don't know what you mean by "personalize." I didn't attack him personally. I argued with him and not someone I agree with because I generally don't argue with people I agree with.

 

[PapaG]

I don't know what you mean by "personalize." I didn't attack him personally. I argued with him and not someone I agree with because I generally don't argue with people I agree with.

No, but you assigned meaning to his post in a personal manner. I found it a bit uncalled for considering alex is merely expressing his opinion within the TOS here.

 

[Minstrel]

No, but you assigned meaning to his post in a personal manner. I found it a bit uncalled for considering alex is merely expressing his opinion within the TOS here.

I'm not really following you here. What does "assigned meaning to his post in a personal manner" mean?

 

[PapaG]

I'm not really following you here. What does "assigned meaning to his post in a personal manner" mean?

It means assigning a personal commentary about the post as opposed to addressing the post. A continuation of the semantic jihad, I suppose.

 

[barfo]

I see this whole flap as good news. I'm more a fan of the blazers than of Brandon Roy, in the sense that what helps the Blazers is more important to me than what helps Roy. In this case, their agendas are not aligned, albeit probably only slightly. It's better for the Blazers to pay him less, it's better for Roy to have the Blazers pay him more. The fact that Roy and his agent are complaining publicly means that the Blazers have the upper hand in the negotiation. Seems like a good thing to me, smart business on their part.

I'm not concerned at all that Brandon will leave, or that this will leave scars that won't heal. In a few days or weeks or months, the contract will get signed and this will all be forgotten.

And by then, it will be time to start thinking about who will be our scapegoat for the upcoming season. My bet: Brandon Roy.

barfo

 

[Ed O]

The salary is set when the contract becomes valid. That is my understanding, regardless of any lower of the cap in future years. Otherwise, Kirilenko wouldn't be getting $17 million/per right now, would he? At least that's what I've heard reported about max extensions signed this off-season. The max figure doesn't lock until next year IIRC.

I agree with you. Raises and preexisting contract amounts can have players making more than the max. I think that the contract becomes valid at the time it's signed, so a player's maximum extension is based on the maximum contract amount at the time the extension is signed, not when it kicks in.

Chris Paul is making more IN THE FIRST YEAR OF HIS EXTENSION than the maximum salary, according to the two sources I cited. The amount he's making is the same as the maximum salary for the year that he signed that extension.

This goes back to Roy because if he signs an extension NOW his max dollars will be higher than if he signs an extension next year (assuming the salary cap does go down again as it reportedly will).

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

I agree with you. Raises and preexisting contract amounts can have players making more than the max. I think that the contract becomes valid at the time it's signed, so a player's maximum extension is based on the maximum contract amount at the time the extension is signed, not when it kicks in.

Chris Paul is making more IN THE FIRST YEAR OF HIS EXTENSION than the maximum salary, according to the two sources I cited. The amount he's making is the same as the maximum salary for the year that he signed that extension.

This goes back to Roy because if he signs an extension NOW his max dollars will be higher than if he signs an extension next year (assuming the salary cap does go down again as it reportedly will).

Ed O.

Again though, I'm not positive about this because the contract isn't valid until the next cap is set, and I've seen it reported that the actual dollar figure isn't set until that point. Why offer anything at all then near the max if the idea is to save money. Anyhow, I understand your position on the business side of things; I just think that the one player you don't play hardball with is now the first player this team has played hardball with.