Building around Avdija and Sharpe

[Phatguysrule]

Crazier things have happened but for our franchise it's only been crazy bad shit. Not likely but sure would be cool if we got lotto lucky and landed that first pick to capture the Flagg. I know no one is counting on that happening though.

I'd absolutely love it. I've got all my fingers crossed.

 

[Foxx]

Seriously the athleticism and size of a Sharpe, Camara, Avdija, Flagg, Clingan lineup with Scoot off the bench for extra offense and a youngish small ball 5 platooning with Clingan. You fill out that bench with a couple of pressure defense wings and this team would be a nightmare for opponents.

You want Scoot playmaking to those guys not watching it from the bench

 

[Pinwheel1]

You want Scoot playmaking to those guys not watching it from the bench

Do you? Doesn't that take away from Deni and Cooper Flagg's strengths? Scoot would still get minutes, but in that fantasy scenario, where we got Flagg, I think Sharpe, Camara, Avdija, Flagg, and Clingan is your best 5 to close games. The one exception would be if we got a lights-out shooter, and we end up taking Clingan off the floor to close games.

 

[wizenheimer]

Crazier things have happened but for our franchise it's only been crazy bad shit. Not likely but sure would be cool if we got lotto lucky and landed that first pick to capture the Flagg. I know no one is counting on that happening though.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Despite my alias I tend to think it should be building around Camara #1 and Deni #2. Their the two Blazers most likely to make a difference eventually on a team contending.

But I guess were still likely missing the top two players on a contender. Maybe we could eventually trade for a Sabonis level player to be #2. Still need an allstar to lead this team to ever contend.

I don't think the odds are that Scoot or Sharpe can ever be that player. Would love to be wrong, but I'd construct the roster on them likely not hitting that level and then just be delighted if they ever hit that. I'd expect Scoot and Sharpe just continue to be Simons level of players that can start if needed but are really someone you prefer to be a 6th man. Clingan is more like a 7th or 8th option.

Sadly its unlikely we get that needed allstar. But I'd be open to using our pick on guys that have that upside regardless of their position. Or taking a chance on another teams player that could develop into one. It would probably have to be a Kyrie type of person that you hope turns a new page. Maybe thats Morant, or Zion, or such. A top level star isn't going to just fall into your lap for one draft pick, apparently for 29 teams besides the Lakers.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Still think they need Flagg.

If Zion is available you have to make a strong play for him. Take that chance!

 

[kjironman1]

If Zion is available you have to make a strong play for him. Take that chance!

Trade the 8th pick for him. Sure thing.

 

[blazerkor]

Trade the 8th pick for him. Sure thing.

I'd do the 8th pick, the worst of the 2029 FRPs and hopefully Deandre.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Amazing stat Sharpe shooting 80% inside the restricted area. That’s so rare for anyone that isn’t a center or power forward. Also that’s at age 21 and people don’t think he can be a star??? Kids got all the tools on offensive side and is becoming a very good rebounder for his position

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Despite my alias I tend to think it should be building around Camara #1 and Deni #2. Their the two Blazers most likely to make a difference eventually on a team contending.

But I guess were still likely missing the top two players on a contender. Maybe we could eventually trade for a Sabonis level player to be #2. Still need an allstar to lead this team to ever contend.

I don't think the odds are that Scoot or Sharpe can ever be that player. Would love to be wrong, but I'd construct the roster on them likely not hitting that level and then just be delighted if they ever hit that. I'd expect Scoot and Sharpe just continue to be Simons level of players that can start if needed but are really someone you prefer to be a 6th man. Clingan is more like a 7th or 8th option.

Sadly its unlikely we get that needed allstar. But I'd be open to using our pick on guys that have that upside regardless of their position. Or taking a chance on another teams player that could develop into one. It would probably have to be a Kyrie type of person that you hope turns a new page. Maybe thats Morant, or Zion, or such. A top level star isn't going to just fall into your lap for one draft pick, apparently for 29 teams besides the Lakers.

would you trade this years pick, a future first, Grant(for salary matching) and one of Sharpe/Scoot for Zion?
It might take both of them?
I would not give up on Sharpe yet, personally. He is only 21.

Im not sure we can trade for the type of player you are referring to without giving up a couple of our own young potentials?

 

[STOMP]

Who’s your all nba player in that lineup? Lol

if you haven't noticed, pretty much everyone is ignoring your inflammatory posts... but I'll play! For the last couple months, barely 24 year old Deni is averaging 22.5, 9.6 & 5.2 and the team is winning at a much higher clip (14-14). Are those not All NBA type stats? If the other youngins continue to improve (as young players tend to do... even 24 y/olds) and that results in even more winning (expect it), Deni will likely shoulder the blame with All NBA selections. If so, will you man up and offer the board a mea culpa for all the nay saying or change your handle & continue to snipe?

STOMP

 

[blazerkor]

if you haven't noticed, pretty much everyone is ignoring your inflammatory posts... but I'll play! For the last couple months, barely 24 year old Deni is averaging 22.5, 9.6 & 5.2 and the team is winning at a much higher clip (14-14). Are those not All NBA type stats? If the other youngins continue to improve (as young players tend to do... even 24 y/olds) and that results in even more winning (expect it), Deni will likely shoulder the blame with All NBA selections. If so, will you man up and offer the board a mea culpa for all the nay saying or change your handle & continue to snipe?

STOMP

I agree that Deni could be all nba but it only happens if Shaedon is too. I definitely think both have it in them if the other is taking some of the pressure off. Tou is a perfect complementary all defensive player for them. I think if we get a starting level small ball 5 it would allow us to dictate when Clingan is the mismatch and not the other way around and that would make Clingan way more effective (see Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez). That would leave us one starting level role player and some bench pieces away from being legit.

I think Joe can pull that stuff off even being as risk averse as he is. With the way Deni has stepped up and Shaedon has been getting more consistent with his superstar looking play instead of it just being glimpses, I think the future looks bright for our team. We'll wait and see what we get in the draft and what we get if and hopefully when Ant is shipped out.

I think there will be some value in the return we get for Ant, I think there still could be some value in the return for Rob. I think we could unload both Jerami and Deandre but I think we'll end up with guys we waive in return for them and not much value other than that. I guess time will tell on all of it but I'm still excited to see how much better the young guys currently on the roster get and who we acquire to play with them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I agree that Deni could be all nba but it only happens if Shaedon is too. I definitely think both have it in them if the other is taking some of the pressure off. Tou is a perfect complementary all defensive player for them. I think if we get a starting level small ball 5 it would allow us to dictate when Clingan is the mismatch and not the other way around and that would make Clingan way more effective (see Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez). That would leave us one starting level role player and some bench pieces away from being legit.

I think Joe can pull that stuff off even being as risk averse as he is. With the way Deni has stepped up and Shaedon has been getting more consistent with his superstar looking play instead of it just being glimpses, I think the future looks bright for our team. We'll wait and see what we get in the draft and what we get if and hopefully when Ant is shipped out.

I think there will be some value in the return we get for Ant, I think there still could be some value in the return for Rob. I think we could unload both Jerami and Deandre but I think we'll end up with guys we waive in return for them and not much value other than that. I guess time will tell on all of it but I'm still excited to see how much better the young guys currently on the roster get and who we acquire to play with them.

If everything goes perfect we have a slim path to be very good.

I just don't like having to count on everything going perfect.

 

[blazerkor]

If everything goes perfect we have a slim path to be very good.

I just don't like having to count on everything going perfect.

I agree completely and if you play the odds on guys reaching there ceilings and then add in the odds on injuries it's way more likely that we're just a team that fights for a playoff spot, probably peaks in like 6 years or so as a 4 seed and then start to tail off. So in other words we'll get stuck in playoff purgatory making the playoffs but averaging a first round exit. That's if things go alright, things could go worse or like you said they could go perfectly and we would end up a contender.

I do think this year's draft pick could be important if we hit big on it that gives us a little more fire power to get to contender status but yeah as constituted every thing will have to go perfectly to become a contender while only adding role players to the existing young core.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

I see it a bit differently. If the FO is going to extend billups, the team is and will keep on being in his image. That is - a defensive oriented group with grit and team mentality that can eventually peek for a season or two as a 'way better than the sum of its' parts' and reach actual contention - all without having a 'true' NBA Allstar caliber player.
The few recent games showed that Sharpe and Deni can hold thier own as 'aduequeate' scorers - imagine the potential for team scoring once you group them around additional good starter team-friendly caliber players you can trade for instead of the current 'old-school' vets..

 

[wizenheimer]

I agree that Deni could be all nba but it only happens if Shaedon is too. .

sure, maybe, I suppose...but...Deni is 24 and in his 5th season

SGA was all-NBA at 24
Anthony Edwards was all-NBA at 22
Paul George at 22
Kawhi Leonard at 24
Kevin Durant at 21
Blake Griffin at 22
Carmelo at 21
Harden at 23
Kevin Love at 23
CP3 at 23
Klay Thompson at 24
AD at 21
Damian Lillard at 23
Giannis at 22
Jayson Tatum at 21

LaMarcus Aldridge made 3rd team all-NBA at 25
Jimmy Butler at 27, but it was only his 6th season
DeMar Derozan at 27 in his 8th season
Siakam at 25 in his 4th season
Draymond at 25 in his 4th season

for the most part, all-NBA players become that at 24 or sooner. There are some exceptions to that obviously. And it's not always elite players making all-NBA teams. Victor Oladipo, Kemba Walker, and Julius Randle have all been named to all-NBA teams, usually 3rd team though

of course, if Deni will be sharing the ball, usage, & shots while competing for minutes with Simons, Ayton, & Grant, he won't be gaining much all-nba traction

 

[Sheldon Shape]

would you trade this years pick, a future first, Grant(for salary matching) and one of Sharpe/Scoot for Zion?
It might take both of them?
I would not give up on Sharpe yet, personally. He is only 21.

Im not sure we can trade for the type of player you are referring to without giving up a couple of our own young potentials?

No.

 

[inconceivable]

It's not always obvious how things will unfold. The Warriors 2015 championship was a surprise, Raptors in 2019, Nuggets in 2023 just to name a few. The Blazers will be champions and it too will be a surprise

 

[AldoTrapani]

sure, maybe, I suppose...but...Deni is 24 and in his 5th season

SGA was all-NBA at 24
Anthony Edwards was all-NBA at 22
Paul George at 22
Kawhi Leonard at 24
Kevin Durant at 21
Blake Griffin at 22
Carmelo at 21
Harden at 23
Kevin Love at 23
CP3 at 23
Klay Thompson at 24
AD at 21
Damian Lillard at 23
Giannis at 22
Jayson Tatum at 21

LaMarcus Aldridge made 3rd team all-NBA at 25
Jimmy Butler at 27, but it was only his 6th season
DeMar Derozan at 27 in his 8th season
Siakam at 25 in his 4th season
Draymond at 25 in his 4th season

for the most part, all-NBA players become that at 24 or sooner. There are some exceptions to that obviously. And it's not always elite players making all-NBA teams. Victor Oladipo, Kemba Walker, and Julius Randle have all been named to all-NBA teams, usually 3rd team though

of course, if Deni will be sharing the ball, usage, & shots while competing for minutes with Simons, Ayton, & Grant, he won't be gaining much all-nba traction

Thank you. Very good player but he’s just a high end role player that’s it

 

[blazerkor]

sure, maybe, I suppose...but...Deni is 24 and in his 5th season

SGA was all-NBA at 24
Anthony Edwards was all-NBA at 22
Paul George at 22
Kawhi Leonard at 24
Kevin Durant at 21
Blake Griffin at 22
Carmelo at 21
Harden at 23
Kevin Love at 23
CP3 at 23
Klay Thompson at 24
AD at 21
Damian Lillard at 23
Giannis at 22
Jayson Tatum at 21

LaMarcus Aldridge made 3rd team all-NBA at 25
Jimmy Butler at 27, but it was only his 6th season
DeMar Derozan at 27 in his 8th season
Siakam at 25 in his 4th season
Draymond at 25 in his 4th season

for the most part, all-NBA players become that at 24 or sooner. There are some exceptions to that obviously. And it's not always elite players making all-NBA teams. Victor Oladipo, Kemba Walker, and Julius Randle have all been named to all-NBA teams, usually 3rd team though

of course, if Deni will be sharing the ball, usage, & shots while competing for minutes with Simons, Ayton, & Grant, he won't be gaining much all-nba traction

This last line better not be the case. Other than that Butler in his 6th season, Derozan in his 8th are good enough precedent for me. I said if everything goes perfectly and all of our young guys, including Deni reach their ceiling... I don't think he's at his but I could be wrong. There's also Steve Nash who didn't make his first all star game and then all nba team until he was 28 and had been in the league for 6 seasons, went on to be a back to back MVP.

I don't think that's Deni's ceiling and I don't even think it's necessarily a perennial all nba guy but I can't be sure of that either. Deni has definitely tapped into something over the past month or so that has him putting up all star stats albeit on a well below .500 team. If he can further tap into what he's been doing and be this productive on a winning team then he's an all star/all nba player.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Thank you. Very good player but he’s just a high end role player that’s it

If Deni with his numbers make him a high end role player, what does that make Amen?

"Thank you. Very good player but he’s just a high end role player that’s it."

 

[BonesJones]

I see it a bit differently. If the FO is going to extend billups, the team is and will keep on being in his image. That is - a defensive oriented group with grit and team mentality that can eventually peek for a season or two as a 'way better than the sum of its' parts' and reach actual contention - all without having a 'true' NBA Allstar caliber player.
The few recent games showed that Sharpe and Deni can hold thier own as 'aduequeate' scorers - imagine the potential for team scoring once you group them around additional good starter team-friendly caliber players you can trade for instead of the current 'old-school' vets..

The problem is, Chauncey's halfcourt offense isn't creative enough to contend without an all-NBA player. Deni has been statistically elite in isolation and you can see the massive difference when Deni isn't in to bail out the offense. The Blazers were 30th in AST% last year and is 28th this year. With the number of guys they gave that can pass and the number of athletes they have, this is ridiculous.

This Blazers core will defend. Find a coach that knows how to get creative and something out of them offensively.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

No.

Me neither.

 

[STOMP]

Still think they need Flagg.

If they luck into Flagg, they will immediately be among the league's elite teams. Bailey would be a tremendous add as well

STOMP

 

[kjironman1]

If they luck into Flagg, they will immediately be among the league's elite teams. Bailey would be a tremendous add as well

STOMP

If there is a fan base that deserves it it’s us.
Problem with it is if it was to happen immediately Steven A Smith would start saying how Flagg needed to get out of Portland.

 

[kjironman1]

The problem is, Chauncey's halfcourt offense isn't creative enough to contend without an all-NBA player. Deni has been statistically elite in isolation and you can see the massive difference when Deni isn't in to bail out the offense. The Blazers were 30th in AST% last year and is 28th this year. With the number of guys they gave that can pass and the number of athletes they have, this is ridiculous.

This Blazers core will defend. Find a coach that knows how to get creative and something out of them offensively.

The team has to make shots to get assists. Using assist% as a point is poor at best.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If they luck into Flagg, they will immediately be among the league's elite teams. Bailey would be a tremendous add as well

STOMP

And this is the crux of the issue so many have had with way this season has been handled.

 

[wizenheimer]

This last line better not be the case. Other than that Butler in his 6th season, Derozan in his 8th are good enough precedent for me. I said if everything goes perfectly and all of our young guys, including Deni reach their ceiling... I don't think he's at his but I could be wrong. There's also Steve Nash who didn't make his first all star game and then all nba team until he was 28 and had been in the league for 6 seasons, went on to be a back to back MVP.

I don't think that's Deni's ceiling and I don't even think it's necessarily a perennial all nba guy but I can't be sure of that either. Deni has definitely tapped into something over the past month or so that has him putting up all star stats albeit on a well below .500 team. If he can further tap into what he's been doing and be this productive on a winning team then he's an all star/all nba player.

I think the main thing he 'tapped' into was Grant and Ayton out of the lineup; plus an unsustainable level of 3 point shooting

I'd agree that Deni is a better #1 option than Simons. Personally, I think Sharpe is too, especially if there was a throttle on the number of three's he shoots. But then I obviously have a low opinion of Simons. But I just can't see Deni being a #1 option on a contender. And his turnover issues really need to get corrected. He has a 1.44 assist/turnover ratio this season; that's not very good. Certainly not good enough for a primary ball-handler and top option. In the last 5 games, he has 29 assists, but 23 turnovers (4.6 turnovers/game). So, while Sharpe needs a throttle on his chucking mode, Deni needs a throttle on his turbo mode

related to all this: in the last 3 games that Simons has missed, Deni is averaging 31.3 points (including a triple-double); while Sharpe is averaging 30.7 points

there is also this from Portland's 2-man lineups, sorted by net points

first the top 5:



and the bottom-5:



then there are the same top/bottom of 3-man lineups:





notice what the worst 3 man combo is; and that 4 of the 5 worst have two of those vets most people want traded. By the way, when looking thru all those lineups, it's pretty clear that Simons and Sharpe are bad for each other when they share the floor; oil and water. Grant hasn't been good for anybody. And Deni may be the best at making teammates better

obviously, these lineup stats, like a lot of stats, can be pretty noisy. What's unknown can be more important context than what's known, if that makes any sense

what doesn't make sense is those 3 veterans on the Blazer team. They shouldn't be there. Portland is more entertaining and plays a better brand of basketball without them

 

[Pinwheel1]

I would love to get Flagg, but the argument we are all making is that we lack a star who can take over games to win a championship. I am not sure Flagg is that type of star. He certainly would be a key component, but will he dominate on the offensive end against NBA players? Maybe, maybe not. What seems to be certain is he will be a really good player......but a dominant player?

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

but a dominant player?

Yes.

I think you are looking at AD, with a bit more aggression/motivation.