Bursting the Bazemore Bubble

[CupWizier]

Great, another day and another argument by 2.0 telling everyone he knows more than anyone else.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I dont know @hoopsjock? You dont think hes one of the brightest basketball minds in here?

Isnt a coach that nobody knows better than a random industrial worker nobody knows?

Being able to teach players how to properly set a acreen is a "fantasy idea"? You're being silly. Move along.

I think HJ is really smart when I agree with him! heh. The CBA especially he's pretty amazing lol.

 

[Hoopguru]

What's funny is how many blame Stotts for the Blazers not pushing the tempo when the issue is obviously Lillard, just like it was when Roy was here. Players are comfortable playing a certain style and obviously Lillard and Roy are ones that liked the tempo to be at their pace. I have seen Stotts many times telling the players to push the ball so I don't see him as the issue. Not every player likes to run and we have had success with both Roy and Lillard running the offense.

agree and Ive mentioned this may times too.

 

[CupWizier]

Well I’m older than both of you guys so I should decide this issue.

Hell, I have kids older than both of you and a grandson almost as old as 2.0.

 

[CupWizier]

I dont know @hoopsjock? You dont think hes one of the brightest basketball minds in here?

Isnt a coach that nobody knows better than a random industrial worker nobody knows?

Being able to teach players how to properly set a acreen is a "fantasy idea"? You're being silly. Move along.

Hoopsjock has studied the CBA which really isn't all that difficult as I did it years ago until I got bored with it. As for the rest of the knowledge, it's no more or no less than many in here.

 

[tlongII]

Hoopsjock has studied the CBA which really isn't all that difficult as I did it years ago until I got bored with it. As for the rest of the knowledge, it's no more or no less than many in here.

Well it’s less than my knowledge, but otherwise I agree.

 

[BBert]

So, how 'bout that Kent Bazemore, huh?

Gonna be a great fit.

Amirite?

 

[CupWizier]

Well it’s less than my knowledge, but otherwise I agree.

I probably should have left it at no more as there are some really clueless people in here as well.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Hoopsjock has studied the CBA which really isn't all that difficult as I did it years ago until I got bored with it. As for the rest of the knowledge, it's no more or no less than many in here.

For HJ I'll say this, for one I think he's an awesome guy, really wish I had more time to stop by and talk ball. Secondly, he not only "knows" the CBA but he's got a very good memory, and he's very knowledgeable about roster situations/numbers. Basketball-wise, I think most of the posters in here have played a moderate amount, have watched more than 99% of the population, and are fairly educated basketball minds.

 

[tlongII]

I like the Bazemore deal. Not a huge needle mover but we’ll be better because of it.

 

[tlongII]

I probably should have left it at no more as there are some really clueless people in here as well.

Maybe but Bones and kJ aren’t clueless.

 

[CupWizier]

For HJ I'll say this, for one I think he's an awesome guy, really wish I had more time to stop by and talk ball. Secondly, he not only "knows" the CBA but he's got a very good memory, and he's very knowledgeable about roster situations/numbers. Basketball-wise, I think most of the posters in here have played a moderate amount, have watched more than 99% of the population, and are fairly educated basketball minds.

Oh, I am not saying he doesn't know it as he does. I'm just saying it really isn't that hard. I knew it very well and kept up with it every reincarnation till the last one and it just didn't seem that important to me. If anyone on here with an iq over 50 studied it, they would know it as well.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So to get this straight: Guys who learned enough about basketball to make it to the NBA are so incapable of learning that they cant learn how to set a proper screen?

Okay. Lmao.

I am curious: from your perspective, are there any skills or areas of the game that certain players simply won't have the physical/mental capacity to develop to an adequate level?

 

[CupWizier]

Maybe but Bones and kJ aren’t clueless.

never said or alluded to that. Annoying, but not clueless. I get tired of the bonesy jonesy act of claiming he knows more about basketball than anyone and is the best player in this forum where as he has seen very few in this forum play and he happens to be much younger than many of the members. He's no Danny Marang.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Oh, I am not saying he doesn't know it as he does. I'm just saying it really isn't that hard. I knew it very well and kept up with it every reincarnation till the last one and it just didn't seem that important to me. If anyone on here with an iq over 50 studied it, they would know it as well.

I dunno, my IQ may be less than 50 I don't really care. Somethings really stick with me and some don't. CBA stuff hasn't, I've read parts of it and my eyes sort of glaze over, it's just not interesting to me.

It's actually interesting in pertaining to this conversation. I think Moe / Aminu "know" how to set a screen, it's not that they don't know how it's that they aren't good at the other things that go around it. The screener has to know when to dive, when to pop, when to reset and set another screen, has to have really good timing, I mean there is a lot of nuances to it.
In my opinion at least if it was just as easy as a coach can teach all those things and they should all be good at it, then how come there are players on every team who excel at it, and those who don't?

Just like in school there are equally smart kids who excel at different things and struggle with others.

 

[tlongII]

I ain’t gonna study the CBA. Nobody’s paying me for that.

 

[hoopsjock]

How did I get dragged into this? HA HA.

In my opinion, a good screen needs two things. The first is timing. The second is positioning. However, these skills are just as important for the player receiving the screen as the actual screener. Which I'll explain in a moment. Most of the skills required to set a pick can be taught. Some of it is awareness and situational and is a little harder to teach. For example, Nurk is pretty good at if a screen doesn't work the first time re-positioning himself quickly on the opposite side. It could be something as simple as noticing off ball that a defender has his back turned and realizing that it would be a good time to go set a pick. Some players aren't aware enough to notice either and therefore would have trouble being taught but the actual act of setting a screen is an easily teachable act.

A great screener can be completely useless with a player that doesn't know how/when to use the screen. One thing that happens a lot is that the player goes too wide. The screener and the screenee should literally scrape shoulders on a pick otherwise the defender has room to get through it or the screener has to move and usually leads to a moving screen. The other thing that happens is the screenee moves too soon before the screener is set and that leads to the same problems as not coming off the screen properly.

Size does slightly matter when it comes to picks too if we are talking about the exact same play with the pick set in the exact same spot. Obviously a bigger body like Nurk is harder to get around than say Isaiah Thomas. However both can still be effective.

 

[CupWizier]

I dunno, my IQ may be less than 50 I don't really care. Somethings really stick with me and some don't. CBA stuff hasn't, I've read parts of it and my eyes sort of glaze over, it's just not interesting to me.

It's actually interesting in pertaining to this conversation. I think Moe / Aminu "know" how to set a screen, it's not that they don't know how it's that they aren't good at the other things that go around it. The screener has to know when to dive, when to pop, when to reset and set another screen, has to have really good timing, I mean there is a lot of nuances to it.
In my opinion at least if it was just as easy as a coach can teach all those things and they should all be good at it, then how come there are players on every team who excel at it, and those who don't?

Just like in school there are equally smart kids who excel at different things and struggle with others.

That's the crux, it's not that you aren't capable as you clearly are, but if it doesn't interest you, then no reason to know it. The rest of your post I pretty much agree with also. Leonard is another that sets good screens, but doesn't finish it off properly all the time as he often forgets to roll to the hoop missing out on some easy baskets and his timing is often off. Can he improve? Sure, but some just don't read plays as well as others and that part is harder to teach and some may never get it as the best at it do the right things instinctively.

 

[wizenheimer]

What's funny is how many blame Stotts for the Blazers not pushing the tempo when the issue is obviously Lillard, just like it was when Roy was here. Players are comfortable playing a certain style and obviously Lillard and Roy are ones that liked the tempo to be at their pace. I have seen Stotts many times telling the players to push the ball so I don't see him as the issue. Not every player likes to run and we have had success with both Roy and Lillard running the offense.

I think that's false

The highest pace Portland has is when Lillard is on the floor, and he has the biggest positive pace differential of any of the players in the regular rotation. With Dame on the floor last season, Portland's pace was 100.0; off the floor it was 96.3. And that tracks the same back thru previous seasons. If Lillard was the one dragging down the transition offense, you wouldn't see those types of numbers

now B-Roy mentioned that might be influenced by Lillard shooting three's early in the shot clock. But 48% of Dame's shots come within the first 10 seconds of the clock; that the same for Nurkic. CJ is at 46%; Kanter was at 52%. Aminu 44%; Curry 46%. There's no indication that's the situation, or at least it's not enough to influence anything. Besides that, many of those early three's Dame shoots are in transition

I suppose you could argue that as the leader and main man, Lillard should push the pace more than he does. But just how much burden does Lillard have to carry? Seems like his teammates could pick up this particular ball and run with it a little, but none of them do. That seems like there's some coaching involved

 

[BonesJones]

I am curious: from your perspective, are there any skills or areas of the game that certain players simply won't have the physical/mental capacity to develop to an adequate level?

Yes. I never give the coaching staff blame for Meyers inability to defend, because a big part of it is his slow jumping ability and lack of instinct. Theres other things like that. Proper screens are not one of them though.

 

[BonesJones]

never said or alluded to that. Annoying, but not clueless. I get tired of the bonesy jonesy act of claiming he knows more about basketball than anyone and is the best player in this forum where as he has seen very few in this forum play and he happens to be much younger than many of the members. He's no Danny Marang.

When did I say I know more basketball than anyone in this conversation? If anything, KJ was saying he knows more than me because he's older. Try not to be too biased.

Here we go again with the conversation dissolving into you being tired of something I havent said.

Danny Marang? Hahaha.

 

[BonesJones]

never said or alluded to that. Annoying, but not clueless. I get tired of the bonesy jonesy act of claiming he knows more about basketball than anyone and is the best player in this forum where as he has seen very few in this forum play and he happens to be much younger than many of the members. He's no Danny Marang.

Thing is, you cant quote either of these things. I've never said I'm the best player in this forum (maybe I did as jokeful banter, which if it happened, you probably took out of context).

But until someone beats me 1v1...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yes. I never give the coaching staff blame for Meyers inability to defend, because a big part of it is his slow jumping ability and lack of instinct. Theres other things like that. Proper screens are not one of them though.

See, you declare this dogmatically as though it's factual and incontrovertible, while people on the other side of the discussion view that as an arguable opinion.

It's impossible for people to have a legitimate discussion when operating on divergent underlying assumptions.

 

[BonesJones]

See, you declare this dogmatically as though it's factual and incontrovertible, while people on the other side of the discussion view that as an arguable opinion.

It's impossible for people to have a legitimate discussion when operating on divergent assumptions.

Get in a low, square stance and set your feet wide. You think theres NBA players that couldnt be coached to do that?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Anyone can learn how to set a screen. I love how some people are acting like it's impossible for some players.

It's not rocket science bro. Anyone whos made the NBA has learned the game enough to get there and you're telling me that some NBA players cant be coached on how to set a screen? smh.

Yes. Because maybe they disagree with the coach. Maybe, they don't like the contact. Maybe they think they made it and don't listen.

Many things that aren't rocket science cant be done by everyone.

Shake your head all you want.
You have not lived long enough to gain this knowledge in this world.
Not everyone is the same or learns the same. Regardless of how far they get in this world.

 

[CupWizier]

I think that's false

The highest pace Portland has is when Lillard is on the floor, and he has the biggest positive pace differential of any of the players in the regular rotation. With Dame on the floor last season, Portland's pace was 100.0; off the floor it was 96.3. And that tracks the same back thru previous seasons. If Lillard was the one dragging down the transition offense, you wouldn't see those types of numbers

now B-Roy mentioned that might be influenced by Lillard shooting three's early in the shot clock. But 48% of Dame's shots come within the first 10 seconds of the clock; that the same for Nurkic. CJ is at 46%; Kanter was at 52%. Aminu 44%; Curry 46%. There's no indication that's the situation, or at least it's not enough to influence anything. Besides that, many of those early three's Dame shoots are in transition

I suppose you could argue that as the leader and main man, Lillard should push the pace more than he does. But just how much burden does Lillard have to carry? Seems like his teammates could pick up this particular ball and run with it a little, but none of them do. That seems like there's some coaching involved

Oh, I wasn't saying we are a walk it up the floor team, but we are definitely not a faster paced team either. The last several years we have been near the top of the bottom 15 (in the 17 to 19th range). My point was that Stotts isn't the main reason we don't play at a faster pace. Have you seen Stotts during games after a rebound yelling to push the ball and waving his team up court? I'm also not saying it's a bad thing, but that it just seems Lillard doesn't push the tempo all that often and I have no idea why, but if that's what Lillard prefers, then I am fine with it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Get in a low, square stance and set your feet wide. You think theres NBA players that couldnt be coached to do that?

I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying that's all there is to setting good screens, or that you're oversimplifying it. I'm not making any declarations one way or the other.

What I'd ask you though is: for those who believe that there is more to seeing good screens than what you described, that perhaps some players can't be coached to set effective screens--do you know why they hold that position?

 

[BonesJones]

Yes. Because maybe they disagree with the coach. Maybe, they don't like the contact. Maybe they think they made it and don't listen.

Many things that aren't rocket science cant be done by everyone.

Shake your head all you want.
You have not lived long enough to gain this knowledge in this world.
Not everyone is the same or learns the same. Regardless of how far they get in this world.

Not every learns the same. But nobody becomes an elite member of their field without the ability to learn a very-basic skill in their field.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Longevity doesn't equal knowledge. I've played more basketball than you can imagine buddy. Ive studied more basketball than you can imagine.

The "I'm older so I know better" is a weak ass copout excuse for older people who cant properly debate something. Its your type of tactic though.

Guess what, theres multiple people who will back me up who are older too so your argument is flawed even in that context. One coaches. The other is one of if not the brightest mind on this forum.

Dude....

Longevity doesn't equal knowledge, but experiences do.

How many jobs have you had?
How many people have you trained, or tried to train?

How many teams have you coached?

How many cities have you lived in to expand the amount of different people you have been around?

You should give a little more respect to your elders’ experiences cause you are sounding like a “know it all” right now. Sorry man.

 

[JDC]

Get in a low, square stance and set your feet wide. You think theres NBA players that couldnt be coached to do that?

There is so much more that goes into screening...

Timing, changing the angle of the screen based on how the defense is playing the handler or off ball player, craftiness and subtlety to gain advantage / avoid moving screens I could go on.

A lot of it is mentality as well which isn't very easily coached into players, especially professionals.