California to ban plastic grocery bags, charge you for paper grocery bags

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I'm pretty sure that's everywhere, not just Cali.

yeah, but its way worse here.

 

[blazerboy30]

You don't believe in externalities? That there are things that incur costs to others that aren't priced into the cost to the consumer, so the market or "invisible hand" has no incentive to fix it, despite it affecting more people than those involved in the actual transaction?

I can at least see a coherent position for Liberterians or fiscal conservatives when it comes to government imposing on things that are entirely between the people involved in the action, even if I don't always agree with them. I think they're intentionally or unintentionally missing the point when it involves actions that impact others.

You (or I) probably can't name a transaction that doesn't have externalities.

The key is assessing the negativeness of those externalities, (however, in most cases, it is much too difficult to asses) and picking which battles are worth fighting for the long-term good. The California government and the so-called "progressives" think too many of the externalities are worth fighting for and they are running the state into fiscal ruin.

So our education is suffering. Our police and safety is suffering. Damn. San Carlos is so broke they are going to have eliminate their police department and try to outsource a police force for their city.

 

[Minstrel]

You (or I) probably can't name a transaction that doesn't have externalities.

The key is assessing the negativeness of those externalities, (however, in most cases, it is much too difficult to asses) and picking which battles are worth fighting for the long-term good. The California government and the so-called "progressives" think too many of the externalities are worth fighting for and they are running the state into fiscal ruin.

Okay, that's a viewpoint I can understand and appreciate. I'm all for debating priorities. What I don't really follow is "nanny state" and "California thinks it knows what's best for me." It's not that the government is telling you how you should live your life as it regards yourself, that it knows what is best for you. The government's position on policies like these is that there need to be policies to account for negative social impacts that the market has no incentive to fix.

In other words, California isn't saying plastic isn't best for you. It's saying that it affects many more people than you, and that needs to be addressed. Maybe you disagree that it should be addressed, but that's not a question of the government telling you what is best for you. Not to my mind, at least.

 

[bluefrog]

The whole world is headed in this direction
Most of the grocery and department stores in Japan charged a fee for plastic bags. It's the law in China and Ireland. Plastic shopping bags are illegal in Italy and South Africa. It will be the norm soon

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

yeah, in europe they fucking charge you just to sit down at a restaurant. that is in addition to the gratuity.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

but california is teh ghey.

 

[barfo]

California is great for the weather but it really is depressing whenever you see the fuck faces that are running the city and state government.

How could it be otherwise? The people in government have to be residents of California.

barfo

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

yeah, in europe they fucking charge you just to sit down at a restaurant. that is in addition to the gratuity.

In the fake-ass tourist traps you went to, maybe.

 

[speeds]

I use the reusable bags, not because I'm tryin to be green...because I can put loads of shit in each bag and only make one trip from the car to the kitchen.

+1

I have to walk up three flights of stairs to get to my apartment. The reusable bags hold a lot.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

California is great for the weather but it really is depressing whenever you see the fuck faces that are running the city and state government. The state is totally corrupt from the utilities, to the education, to the local city council all the way to the senate and governor's office. I'll be suprised if California still exists in 25 years.

Isn't California the largest economy in the US and something like the 10th largest economy inh the world. California has issues . . . but it's not going anywhere

 

[barfo]

Isn't California the largest economy in the US and something like the 10th largest economy inh the world. California has issues . . . but it's not going anywhere

Except into the sea when the next big one hits.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

Except into the sea when the next big one hits.

California is going to institute a tax to pay for a gigantic plastic bubble around the state, so it can continue to function under the ocean.

That's why it's banning plastic bags. It has more important uses for plastics production.