Can I Get an Amen??

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

3% less for non-teachers in Oregon for public workers, and that's 2010 data. On average, and taking out the absurd salaries for teachers, if you make $50k for the state of Oregon (and you get PERS), your private sector counterpart is making $51,500 (and likely contributing to his/her own retirement at a 50% rate, at the very least). Professor salaries at public universities for some reason weren't included in this study.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110425/NEWS/104250315/-1/NEWSMAP

I know you have a habit of believing everything you read. But I'm just going to say, don't believe everything you read. I have harder time believing that article than the 100 or so public employees I know. And the tax returns I've seen for people working for the government (from working at a CPA firm), I can honestly say, 90% of public employees' compensation I've seen, they make way more than 3% less of their counterparts in the public sector.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Hell, after seeing what firefighters make, I'd say they alone skew the figures.

I can't believe what they make.

 

[PapaG]

I know you have a habit of believing everything you read. But I'm just going to say, don't believe everything you read. I have harder time believing that article than the 100 or so public employees I know. And the tax returns I've seen for people working for the government (from working at a CPA firm), I can honestly say, 90% of public employees' compensation I've seen, they make way more than 3% less of their counterparts in the public sector.

This was a study by the State of Oregon. Plus, you aren't including benefits in public salaries. In the private sector, you have to pay fully for your health insurance, and at best you're going to find a matching 50/50 401k.

 

[PapaG]

Just wait until July 1, 2013, when the PERS bomb really drops. Also, you can deny the data presented, but the fact is that it was conducted by the state of Oregon. I don't think they would have any reason to lie, other than to make the difference greater between public pay and private pay.

 

[PapaG]

Since when do I believe everything I read? I'm probably the most cynical bastard on this board regarding what I read.

 

[PapaG]

I don't even know what my brother makes a year, or even what my dad made when he was alive, let alone 100 state workers. Are these conversations that you have often with people?

"How much money do you make?"

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

This was a study by the State of Oregon. Plus, you aren't including benefits in public salaries. In the private sector, you have to pay fully for your health insurance, and at best you're going to find a matching 50/50 401k.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that benefits were included in the salary.

As for working in the private sector, I've never worked anywhere, nor has anyone I've ever talked to about the subject, had to pay more than 50% for their health insurance (and it's always one of the first questions I ask someone when they're looking at jobs). Never. Not one single time. Not any of my 80+ former clients.

As for the 401k.... Again, from those I know, plus my former clients, I'd say 85-90% paid a minimum of 2% into a 401k, plus another 1-3% to match employee contributions.

Nothing against your sources.... not disputing them. There's just so much manipulated data, junk data, terrible sources out there.... I trust my own personal experiences and what I have actually seen than random articles. Everything in the media has an agenda, and so often, those factual articles later are poked full of holes and can no longer hold water.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

firefighters are ruining this country! :MARIS61:

 

[PapaG]

In an earlier post, you mentioned that benefits were included in the salary.

As for working in the private sector, I've never worked anywhere, nor has anyone I've ever talked to about the subject, had to pay more than 50% for their health insurance (and it's always one of the first questions I ask someone when they're looking at jobs). Never. Not one single time. Not any of my 80+ former clients.

As for the 401k.... Again, from those I know, plus my former clients, I'd say 85-90% paid a minimum of 2% into a 401k, plus another 1-3% to match employee contributions.

Nothing against your sources.... not disputing them. There's just so much manipulated data, junk data, terrible sources out there.... I trust my own personal experiences and what I have actually seen than random articles. Everything in the media has an agenda, and so often, those factual articles later are poked full of holes and can no longer hold water.

You've obviously never worked for a small business, or owned your own business. Nobody is paying 50% of our health insurance for us. Considering your lack of experience in workers from all fields, perhaps you should open up your mind to some actual data, instead of relying on what is obviously a less-than-complete view of how private industry works.

 

[barfo]

I'd take $50k and guaranteed PERS as opposed to $51,500 in the private sector. That argument just doesn't work anymore for public employees.

You misread the study. The 3% difference is not in salary, but in salary + benefits + retirement. So, even after you add PERS in, state employees make less than the private sector.

barfo

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I don't even know what my brother makes a year, or even what my dad made when he was alive, let alone 100 state workers. Are these conversations that you have often with people?

"How much money do you make?"

I have a very open and honest family, from my parents to my grandparents to several of my aunts and uncles, even some of my cousins. Nobody has anything to be ashamed of, nobody has anything to hide amongst family. Most are public employees, so I think they probably feel it's easy to get a feel for what they make online. And again.... I worked at a CPA firm for a decade. Between the experience of that (80+ business clients), plus the personal returns, plus returns for most of my family and friends.....

I know you think my comment may have been made up or exaggerated, but it's not.

 

[PapaG]

I have a very open and honest family, from my parents to my grandparents to several of my aunts and uncles, even some of my cousins. Nobody has anything to be ashamed of, nobody has anything to hide amongst family. Most are public employees, so I think they probably feel it's easy to get a feel for what they make online. And again.... I worked at a CPA firm for a decade. Between the experience of that (80+ business clients), plus the personal returns, plus returns for most of my family and friends.....

I know you think my comment may have been made up or exaggerated, but it's not.

Oh, that explains it. Nevermind. My mother-in-law is a PERS pensioner, and my wife and I can't bring up PERS reform, even when her mom starts bitching about school programs being cut.

On to the next topic...

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You've obviously never worked for a small business, or owned your own business. Nobody is paying 50% of our health insurance for us.

The CPA firm I worked at for a decade was 6 people when I started. They paid 100% of my insurance and 25% of my dependents'.

The company I work for now is 6 people scattered about the USA (5 when I started). They pay 100% of my insurance, and 100% of my dependents' insurance. That's health, dental, and vision.

What qualifies as a small business in your world? 5 or less employees?

 

[PapaG]

I'm wondering where the magic beans grow that will pay for 50% of my family's health insurance.

Anybody seen them?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i pay for my own insurance so i dont have to go in front of the death panels and accept whatever immigrant doctor they want to push on me

and its all the teachers fault

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I'm wondering where the magic beans grow that will pay for 50% of my family's health insurance.

Anybody seen them?

looks like you need a better job

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Since when do I believe everything I read? I'm probably the most cynical bastard on this board regarding what I read.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that because it really isn't true.

You have your stances, and appear incapable of shifting them. Then you find articles that support your stance, no matter how radical or one-sided they are, and you post them to support your belief. Nothing wrong with it, and it's honestly not a dig at you, it's simply how I see you (and it's how I believe other posters view you based on posts). Those who disagree, it bugs. I can be so in the middle at times that most of the time, those who are completely on one side or the other on an issue, it doesn't phase me, and I can see their perspective clearly. And I have no doubt there are people who get annoyed with me for sitting in the middle, or being Republican on issue and Democrat on another.

 

[PapaG]

firefighters are ruining this country! :MARIS61:

My neighbor across the street is a Portland firefighter. Nice guy, nice kids, great family.

Works 3 days a week, his wife doesn't work, he is a member at the Tualatin Country Club, and he's dumb as a fucking post. Nice guy, really, but trying to have a conversation with him is painful. You can almost hear the gears in his brain trying to formulate words to come out of his mouth. His wife, on the other hand, is very bright, has a bachelors degree, yet doesn't have to work to live in our nice neighborhood.

 

[PapaG]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that because it really isn't true.

You have your stances, and appear incapable of shifting them. Then you find articles that support your stance, no matter how radical or one-sided they are, and you post them to support your belief. Nothing wrong with it, and it's honestly not a dig at you, it's simply how I see you (and it's how I believe other posters view you based on posts). Those who disagree, it bugs. I can be so in the middle at times that most of the time, those who are completely on one side or the other on an issue, it doesn't phase me, and I can see their perspective clearly. And I have no doubt there are people who get annoyed with me for sitting in the middle, or being Republican on issue and Democrat on another.

How is posting the data from a state of Oregon study on public versus private pay "one-sided"?

 

[RR7]

I'm wondering where the magic beans grow that will pay for 50% of my family's health insurance.

Anybody seen them?

Many private sector jobs will, or do. It's just you changed it from private sector, to very small companies/self employed. Big difference between the two. I've never been a public employee, and have never paid even 50 of my health insurance costs.

 

[PapaG]

looks like you need a better job

I've got a good job. The best job I've ever had. I'm not a good corporate slave, and golden handcuffs are a turn-off. But, if there are magic beans that will pay for 50% of my health insurance, I'll grow some. Where are they?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I'm wondering where the magic beans grow that will pay for 50% of my family's health insurance.

Anybody seen them?

I'm not saying they're all over. I just was responding to your assertion that those jobs don't exist, and that I obviously have never worked for a small company. That's all. Your post that I responded to, you had some very definitive words in there. "Nobody" and "never"?? Well, your use of "nobody" and "never" were destroyed.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

My neighbor across the street is a Portland firefighter. Nice guy, nice kids, great family.

Works 3 days a week, his wife doesn't work, he is a member at the Tualatin Country Club, and he's dumb as a fucking post. Nice guy, really, but trying to have a conversation with him is painful. You can almost hear the gears in his brain trying to formulate words to come out of his mouth. His wife, on the other hand, is very bright, has a bachelors degree, yet doesn't have to work to live in our nice neighborhood.

I lived with one for a year, and have 6 different relatives that work as FF in OR.

All very well paid. All often go to work and return home without having left the station on a single call.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

How is posting the data from a state of Oregon study on public versus private pay "one-sided"?

Where did I say I was referring to the one article. I made a comment about your personality or schtick, IN GENERAL, you responded, and I responded.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

My neighbor across the street is a Portland firefighter. Nice guy, nice kids, great family.

Works 3 days a week, his wife doesn't work, he is a member at the Tualatin Country Club, and he's dumb as a fucking post. Nice guy, really, but trying to have a conversation with him is painful. You can almost hear the gears in his brain trying to formulate words to come out of his mouth. His wife, on the other hand, is very bright, has a bachelors degree, yet doesn't have to work to live in our nice neighborhood.

how dare he make more money than you! what an outrage! :MARIS61:

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You've obviously never worked for a small business, or owned your own business. Nobody is paying 50% of our health insurance for us. Considering your lack of experience in workers from all fields, perhaps you should open up your mind to some actual data, instead of relying on what is obviously a less-than-complete view of how private industry works.

FYI.... I'd argue I have more first-hand knowledge of workers in all fields than you. I may be right, I may not be. But you get a lot of insight on what people make in various fields when you literally see lord-knows-how-many W-2's, company records, etc every single year. It doesn't make me any wiser on the subject than someone who simply relies on reports scattered on the internet.

As I said before, I simply rely on what I know first-hand, rather than relying on reports that I have no idea how they were prepared, what agendas there were behind them, etc. Call me a cynic, because years of statistics classes has really left me underwhelmed by a lot of statistical research/reports on the internet.

 

[PapaG]

Many private sector jobs will, or do. It's just you changed it from private sector, to very small companies/self employed. Big difference between the two. I've never been a public employee, and have never paid even 50 of my health insurance costs.

Small businesses are a part of the private sector. A very big part of it, actually. A poster claimed he'd never heard of anyone paying for their own health insurance completely in the private sector. I answered it.

42,000,000 workers in the private sector work for companies with <100 employees.

http://www.census.gov/epcd/susb/latest/us/US--.HTM

Here is the breakdown for Oregon.

http://www.census.gov//epcd/susb/2008/or/OR--.HTM

If we're just going to count large companies in the private sector, does that mean I can stop paying taxes to support the PERS freeloaders? I mean, if my work doesn't count, why should I have to pay taxes to support BlazingGiants' large family on the public dole?

 

[PapaG]

how dare he make more money than you! what an outrage! :MARIS61:

I think it's great. I wish I'd have become a firefighter. He's down to a 5 handicap now.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

how dare he make more money than you! what an outrage! :MARIS61:

Another perk of being a firefighter: Wife swap! And I don't mean the TV show.

They're a crazy bunch of people.

 

[PapaG]

I have to point out the irony of the poster doggedly defending public employees haranguing a member of the private sector that pays for his family's lifestyle.

Keep it up. This is good stuff, and it's going to be a big thing come November.