Can't take 4 more years of Obama abuse and empty promises

[BLAZER PROPHET]

For me, it's the economy, budget deficit and national debt. That's the near and mid term future of the country. On those, Obama receives an D or F. The jury is still out on the Obamacare mandatory tax increase. There were such better ways to go about it. I know that was a joke about saving the auto industry, but he did add hundreds of millions to UAW coffers as a political payback.

To be sure, I like the way he got us mostly out of harm's way in Iraq and except for the recent slayings I liked his foreign policy decisions.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yes. It was a bad law.

So we're able to just say, "Eff You, Mr. Commander-in-Chief...we think that's a bad law, so we're not following it?" THAT makes us homophobes with no integrity?

 

[Denny Crane]

Thanks for your service, Brian, but...

I don't care if a guy is gay or not. If he's big and tough and can kick the enemy's ass and break things, that seems good enough for me. That's what the military is supposed to do - kick the enemy's ass and break things.

You are right that there were a lot of men and women who lied about their orientation. They lied because they wanted to serve, like you. They gained no other personal benefit from the lies. It's just downright silly the rules were so egregiously wrong that it put these good men and women in a spot they would have to lie just to serve.

Nothing personal.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yes. Your marriage means less to me than the debt the nation incurred (and inability to get a budget passed), the way PPACA was passed and the inability of ObamaCare to actually make care affordable, and the way my life will be affected by past and future choices for national security. But those weren't anywhere in your list. We each get a vote, and if that's what you're voting for, that's your right.

Your sexual choices belong to you and your consensual partner, not to the federal government, imho.

But Romney supports a Constitutional Amendment that would void my marriage. What if the government was trying to take away YOUR right to visit your spouse in the hospital? This is not just about my "sexual choice." This is about human rights. This is about gay youth (who don't CHOOSE to be gay) killing themselves because the government says that who they are is wrong. I guess since you think it doesn't affect you, fuck us? I would LOVE for this to not be an issue at elections, but the Republicans are making it an issue.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

But Romney supports a Constitutional Amendment that would void my marriage. What if the government was trying to take away YOUR right to visit your spouse in the hospital? This is not just about my "sexual choice." This is about human rights. This is about gay youth (who don't CHOOSE to be gay) killing themselves because the government says that who they are is wrong. I guess since you think it doesn't affect you, fuck us? I would LOVE for this to not be an issue at elections, but the Republicans are making it an issue.

That's not fair to lay some guilt trip on someone because gay rights is your top agenda.

It's like me telling you which candidate is best for the immigration issue with regard to Mexico and you need to vote for that president because the other one is so unfair to Mexicans.

Every voter can have their own agenda and give whatever they feel is the most important issue top priority.

Gay rights is important to me and I understand what you are saying, but in this election, in this current global economic economy, gay rights will not be dictating my vote.

 

[KingSpeed]

It's not a guilt trip. It's the truth. Obama has stood up for the rights of ALL. Romney has not. If you just want to ignore "the gays" when you go to vote, think about what you're doing for the future of this country. Think about your child or future child who could be gay and what kind of country you'd want them to live in. Don't be on the wrong side of history.

 

[MARIS61]

That's not fair to lay some guilt trip on someone because gay rights is your top agenda.

It's like me telling you which candidate is best for the immigration issue with regard to Mexico and you need to vote for that president because the other one is so unfair to Mexicans.

Every voter can have their own agenda and give whatever they feel is the most important issue top priority.

Gay rights is important to me and I understand what you are saying, but in this election, in this current global economic economy, gay rights will not be dictating my vote.

Equality is not an agenda. It is a prerequisite to Freedom. It is the cornerstone of our country.

 

[MARIS61]

Your sexual choices belong to you and your consensual partner, not to the federal government, imho.

So you're definitely voting for Obama then.

 

[NOVoodoo]

How many threads have their been about the presidential elections? Now...

How many threads have there been about the elections for the Senate and House?

Oregon is full of a buncha left-wingers, and ya'll will choose President Obama, regardless of your individual opinion.

That's a given. It doesn't matter if a right-wing poster on this board convinces everyone that Romney should be President; your state will still vote for Obama regardless of your opinions.

Now that that's out of the way, can we start talking about the politics that the posters can actually impact?

How's your local government doing? Are you just going to punch the Democratic ticket for your local government as you go down the ballot, or are you going to analyze the candidates with as scrupulous an eye as you have analyzed the Presidential nominees (where you have a significantly diminished voice)?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Thanks for your service, Brian, but...

I don't care if a guy is gay or not. If he's big and tough and can kick the enemy's ass and break things, that seems good enough for me. That's what the military is supposed to do - kick the enemy's ass and break things.

You are right that there were a lot of men and women who lied about their orientation. They lied because they wanted to serve, like you. They gained no other personal benefit from the lies. It's just downright silly the rules were so egregiously wrong that it put these good men and women in a spot they would have to lie just to serve.

Nothing personal.

No offense taken.

"It's just downright silly the rules were so egregiously wrong that it put these good men and women in a spot they would have to lie just to serve."

Whether I agree or not, which rules do you want the military to ignore, and which ones to obey? Should the military have said "Eff no, we're not leaving Iraq, are you stupid?" And just kept people there until Congress put through a budget stripping away funding? Should they have said "I don't care about 'collateral damage', I'm getting bin Laden in 1998, President Clinton?" Should they have just said, upon the repeal of DADTDP, "that's stupid, we're not following that?" Should they say "rape of an enemy's women has been a given throughout history, why the hell can't we rape and plunder?" Or "You're an idiot for suggesting that a prisoner of war gets a trial in NYC, Mr. Holder...not only will we summarily execute the prisoner according to military tribunal, but we're going to arrest you in your house and see how you like it?"

You either get civilian control of the military or you don't. We follow the rules your presidents and representatives make, no matter how stupid or great.

As for "lying", the only reason they possibly would've had to lie is because they were engaging in illegal activity. "Being gay" wasn't against the rules. And no one was able to pursue whether someone was engaging in that illegal activity. You know what else was illegal, and could get you kicked out? What you would call "interoffice dating." Or consensual sex between the assistant manager of one McDonald's and the fry cook at a Burger King across the street. Or bouncing a check. Or being overweight.

There were (and are) rules you have to follow to be in the military, and not engaging in homosexual activity (or "coming out") was one. The fat kid doesn't get to eat all he wants and stay in just b/c he wants to serve. The single dad who doesn't have relatives to leave his kids with on deployment doesn't get to stay in just b/c he wants to serve. The officer who impregnates someone who isn't an officer doesn't get to stay in just because he wants to serve.

I don't expect anyone to "get it", and it's a moot point anyway....but when is someone going to say that it's stupid that a doctor can't continue being a Navy doctor just because he's 5'11, 210? Or that a nuclear-trained electrician with 6 years gets kicked out b/c he can't run 1.5miles in 13 minutes? They also "get no additional benefit other than to serve." What about the Navy SEAL who gets kicked out b/c he got LASIK? Or the guy with 25 years experience getting fired for having an affair?

 

[BrianFromWA]

So you're definitely voting for Obama then.

No. I'm not a one-issue voter, and if I was, that's nowhere near the top of my list.

 

[Denny Crane]

Brian,

Being unable to run 1.5 miles in 13 minutes doesn't square with "isn't big and tough enough to kick the enemy's ass."

Yes, the military does serve under control of civilians, but those civilians do ask your advice. W didn't plan the surge, but he OKed it with the advice of "the generals" (as W liked to say). We heard about how repealing DADT would harm morale - where the heck did that come from?

While you say the rules allowed gay people to serve, it put them in a situation they had to lie.

Sailor Kicked Out Under ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Re-Enlists

Kicked out of the Air Force for a kiss: Despite repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' many still feel sting


Faced with that, people felt they had to lie.

I'm not gay, FWIW. I just sympathise with individuals who deserve to be treated fairly and like anyone else.

 

[huevonkiller]

They're so similar, I think I can take either one lol.

 

[magnifier661]

Magnifier's taxes and take-home pay mean more to him than my fundamental civil rights, the sanctity of my marriage, my right to visit an ailing spouse in the hospital, my dignity as a citizen of this country, our healthcare, the mental welfare and emotional well-being of our youth, and my very personhood. He probably would've been opposed to ending slavery. After all, what about his bottom line?

LMAO you act as though the Republican Party hasn't offered these rights. You seem extremely bias to the party, moreso than the actual candidate. It's called partisan brainwashing. This is why I call myself a republican, but vote both sides when I see the other party has the better of the two evils. Obviously, by the way you've responded; you will just vote democrate hands down. Good for you. Your party thanks you.

 

[magnifier661]

You both need to hire competent tax preparers. No way you could owe that much under our current tax codes.

Nope that isn't true. Remember I live in California. My mother is the highest tax bracket at 37.9% fed and state of 10.3%. Next year the tax rate will be 44.6% fed and the state is still 10.3%. You are right, I was wrong on my numbers. My mother is going to be 54.9%.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes. Your marriage means less to me than the debt the nation incurred (and inability to get a budget passed), the way PPACA was passed and the inability of ObamaCare to actually make care affordable, and the way my life will be affected by past and future choices for national security. But those weren't anywhere in your list. We each get a vote, and if that's what you're voting for, that's your right.

Your sexual choices belong to you and your consensual partner, not to the federal government, imho.

He doesn't realize when the unemployment rate keeps going up, and the unemployment checks are being cut; there will be more to worry about than civil rights. There maybe mass hestaria and chaos in the streest. rioting and shoplifting so families can feed themselves. I have so many in the field of construction that have been unemployed for 2 years and can't make ends meet. The economy is what drives this great country. You lose jobs and the country suffers like a snow ball.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Nope that isn't true. Remember I live in California. My mother is the highest tax bracket at 37.9% fed and state of 10.3%. Next year the tax rate will be 44.6% fed and the state is still 10.3%. You are right, I was wrong on my numbers. My mother is going to be 54.9%.

If prop 30 passes, top STATE income bracket in California goes to 13.3%, and that's for 2012. If you're making a lot of money in California, its time to move to Nevada or Washington.

 

[magnifier661]

It's not a guilt trip. It's the truth. Obama has stood up for the rights of ALL. Romney has not. If you just want to ignore "the gays" when you go to vote, think about what you're doing for the future of this country. Think about your child or future child who could be gay and what kind of country you'd want them to live in. Don't be on the wrong side of history.

It's weird brother. But I have 3 gay friends that are voting for Romney. I asked why and they said that they are tired of the empty promises that Obama gave them. Some people just get it. Gay rights is an issue, but the bigger issue is the state of the union. And right now we are in some shit!

 

[magnifier661]

If prop 30 passes, top STATE income bracket in California goes to 13.3%, and that's for 2012. If you're making a lot of money in California, its time to move to Nevada or Washington.

No way in hell it passes!

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

The war is over. We are still in Germany too but WW2 ended 70 years ago.

Get informed.

Tell that to my bud who was just deployed a month ago. Just because "the war is over" doesn't really mean it's over.

Still have a few friends/family members in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they insist the war isn't over. My friends stationed domestically but have been in the military for several years also tell me the same.

Very gullible, if you really believe the war is "over". Because, it really isn't. A lot of the operations and what not we had going have been shut down, and we have moved a lot of people out, but the war is not over.

Get informed.

 

[magnifier661]

Tell that to my bud who was just deployed a month ago. Just because "the war is over" doesn't really mean it's over.

Still have a few friends/family members in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they insist the war isn't over. My friends stationed domestically but have been in the military for several years also tell me the same.

Very gullible, if you really believe the war is "over". Because, it really isn't. A lot of the operations and what not we had going have been shut down, and we have moved a lot of people out, but the war is not over.

Get informed.

Yeah everyone believes what they are told; regardless if it's the truth. Taking out the majority of troops doesn't mean you are out of Iraq. There are plenty of soldiers still in both those countries.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It's weird brother. But I have 3 gay friends that are voting for Romney. I asked why and they said that they are tired of the empty promises that Obama gave them. Some people just get it. Gay rights is an issue, but the bigger issue is the state of the union. And right now we are in some shit!

I love when people push the "We need to vote Obama for gay rights" objective.

Weak shit. I am all for gay rights. No, in fact I'm not. I'm all for one set of rights that applies to all Americans fairly and equally. There should be no such thing as gay rights or affirmative action, etc.

Obama pulled the "Get Out of Jail Free" card when he began his push on gay rights. Obama was like, "Hey, I know I haven't done anything in 4 years. Usually, that doesn't get you re-elected. But hey, I'm up against Romney; if I support gay rights, I'll win the election."

The Federal Government should have no say or no hand in what marriage and relationships are. But we do need our government to stand up and save the economy and the American working-class. Voting for Obama because of his stance only keeps the Federal Government's hands in the pile. Get them the fuck out!

Now, if people are voting for Obama because they think he's the better candidate, more power to them. But for those who are solely swayed by Obama's stance on gay rights, get over yourself and think of the bigger picture.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Yeah everyone believes what they are told; regardless if it's the truth. Taking out the majority of troops doesn't mean you are out of Iraq. There are plenty of soldiers still in both those countries.

No shit. Do people think are troops are still just out there in Iraq and Afghanistan on a "free" vacation giveaway from the US government? I mean, the few pics that have been sent back recently that I've seen, they're all decked out in gear with some serious artillery.