Canzano Calls The Worst Draft Pick In Blazers History......
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Natebishop3
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No. Still Bowie over Jordan, but Martell ranks high up there.
ABM
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He said (just as in the Bowie pick,) the Blazers drafted for specific position, as opposed to BPA.
Nikolokolus
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Passing on the greatest player of all time is and will always be the worst draft decision ... until/unless Durant eclipses Jordan as the GOAT and then Oden will become the worst draft decision of all time. Martell over Williams and CP3 is a real stinker though.
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Webster was a disaster because it was so painfully OBVIOUS that (a) the team had locked in on him, and (b) that Paul was perhaps the best player in the draft.
The team traded down, at least, which is better than snapping Webster up at #3... but it was a terrible decision to take him no matter what.
Bowie over Jordan is still worse, however.
Ed O.
The team traded down, at least, which is better than snapping Webster up at #3... but it was a terrible decision to take him no matter what.
Bowie over Jordan is still worse, however.
Ed O.
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At the time, CP3 had just punched a dude in the nuts in the ACC Tournament. I could see it if people around here were saying "take Deron!", but I don't remember much of that. Then again, I wasn't on the interwebs much then. But in 2005, taking a "thuggish" cheater who played the same position as our last lotto pick wasn't in the cards, and everyone knew it.
That said, I gotta agree about taking Bowie. I wasn't alive for Larue Martin.
That said, I gotta agree about taking Bowie. I wasn't alive for Larue Martin.
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My reason for LaRue.
he was taken based on 1 game against Bill Walton, and sucked every other minute he played in college and the NBA.
At least Bowie was good in college and had a respectable career in the NBA.
Martins career averages were 5 and 4 (although his per 36 #'s aren't atrocious). He played 4 seasons.
Martin was also taken BEFORE Bob MacAdoo and Dr. J (granted, they more than likely wouldn't have played in Portland..but they could've been traded ala Moses Malone).
he was taken based on 1 game against Bill Walton, and sucked every other minute he played in college and the NBA.
At least Bowie was good in college and had a respectable career in the NBA.
Martins career averages were 5 and 4 (although his per 36 #'s aren't atrocious). He played 4 seasons.
Martin was also taken BEFORE Bob MacAdoo and Dr. J (granted, they more than likely wouldn't have played in Portland..but they could've been traded ala Moses Malone).
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We went 'round and 'round about it on this board (well, at a different site). I don't think that anyone actually LOVED Webster, they just had a lot of faith in Nash.
They ignored statements by STOMP about how great Paul was going to be, and they mocked my reiteration of expert opinions that considered him the best PG prospect since Magic Johnson.
I remember but one person on the "pro-Webster" side, who said not only that they should take him if they want him, but that they shouldn't trade down and risk losing him. Unfortunately, that poster no longer is active on this board. Unfortunately for me
Ed O.
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Dude, you're taking what used to be a reasonable position (skeptical until Oden proves himself) straight off the deep end.
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Haha. Where was he going to go?
Working for the richest owner in sports when there was no maximum salary... I think he would have stuck around
Ed O.
Haha. Where was he going to go?
Working for the richest owner in sports when there was no maximum salary... I think he would have stuck around
Ed O.
I don't. Besides, Allen didn't own the team until 1988.
I feel pretty confident in saying Jordan wouldn't have stayed with the team.
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It's irrelevant to me because I don't think $ would stop Jordan considering all of his money came from endorsements anyways. An extra maybe $5M-$10M a year isn't worth going to a big city and becoming the global icon he was. I think someone even posted something on here where MJ mentioned something about not staying here if he was drafted.
You have to understand as much as Jordan was about winning, he was just as much about marketing himself.
You have to understand as much as Jordan was about winning, he was just as much about marketing himself.
Draco
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We went 'round and 'round about it on this board (well, at a different site). I don't think that anyone actually LOVED Webster, they just had a lot of faith in Nash.
They ignored statements by STOMP about how great Paul was going to be, and they mocked my reiteration of expert opinions that considered him the best PG prospect since Magic Johnson.
I remember but one person on the "pro-Webster" side, who said not only that they should take him if they want him, but that they shouldn't trade down and risk losing him. Unfortunately, that poster no longer is active on this board. Unfortunately for me
Ed O.
I remember many discussions being whether we should take Gerald Green or Martell Webster.
Being able to trade Telfair for Roy lessens the sting of passing on CP3 to me, but yeah that still is the worst draft pick in my 20 years as a fan of the Blazers.
I always wondered at the time if maybe Paul Allen had enough of all the local criticism back in those days and just said screw it, let's have the team suck ass for a number of years then the fans will come back with a passion once they return to a first round exit team. That's basically what has ended up happening.
oldmangrouch
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I will reluctantly agree with Canzany on this one.
There were extenuating circumstances for the Martin draft, and Bowie was picked to make Dr Jack happy. Why was the Webster pick made? That was just monkey-humping-a-moose-turd stupid.
There were extenuating circumstances for the Martin draft, and Bowie was picked to make Dr Jack happy. Why was the Webster pick made? That was just monkey-humping-a-moose-turd stupid.
Nikolokolus
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Dude, you're taking what used to be a reasonable position (skeptical until Oden proves himself) straight off the deep end.
Oh I'm being a little bit tongue in cheek and having some fun ... I give Durant about a 0.5% of ever eclipsing his Airness, but I think there's a pretty good chance he snags an MVP trophy or two (assuming Lebron plays on a team that has a down year or two). If current trends hold though -- Oden struggling with health and Durant continuing to rack up scoring titles -- the pick is going to be pretty hard to defend in a couple of years. I really do hope it doesn't come to that.
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I think even if Durant proves to be a Hall of Famer and Oden never stays healthy, it still wouldn't be the worst draft pick in franchise history, or a contender, for one reason: the pick made plenty of sense at the time.
It may be the most unfortunate pick, the unluckiest pick, but not the worst, because it wasn't a silly or dumb pick. The Bowie pick honestly didn't make sense at the time, because it was made from an illogical basis: select need over talent. Even at the time, very very few people thought Bowie was as or more talented than Jordan. He was simply one of the top big men and the Blazers were bound and determined to take a big man. When you're trying to maximize your chances of getting a top player, passing on a superior talent is always a mistake.
Similar things could be said about Webster. In Nash's view, the team already had its "point guard of the future" in Telfair, so he wasn't going to take another one. Disqualifying superior talents in Paul and Williams, due to perceived positional needs, fit right into the flawed basis that characterized the Bowie selection.
When Portland chose Oden, it wasn't a need over talent selection. At the time, the team believed it had a franchise perimeter player and big man in Roy and Aldridge. So it's unlikely that they felt they had to choose based on need. In addition, the consensus was that Oden was the most talented prospect in addition to being a big man. Oden had been considered a phenom since he was a sophomore in high school. His collegiate performance didn't contradict those scouting beliefs. While there will always be nay-sayers about any prospect (I remember people who were even detractors of LeBron James, when he was still just a prospect), Oden had a consensus about his ability that was near those for LeBron James and Tim Duncan, from my recollection.
So, it was the right pick based on the information at the time. That disqualifies it, in my mind, from being the "worst" pick (which, to me, connotes ineptness, short-sightedness or horrific scouting). Oden's performance when healthy has validated the scouting. The injuries, IMO, were not predictable. So if he remains injury-prone and busts for that reason, I'll chalk it up as supreme misfortune, not a terrible pick.
BlazerCaravan
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There was quite a bit of Webster love that week.
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178681-rate-blazers-draft-day.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178884-we-drafted-good-guy-webster.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178826-i-love-our-new-backcourt.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178563-nice-job-nash-patterson.html
...and Telfair love too (which is why we "didn't need" Paul or Deron):
http://www.basketballforum.com/port...ster-jack-article-hoopsworld.html#post2368079
(for the benefit of the new guys, Talkhard changed his name to Shooter later on)
We also got good grades on that draft overall:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178880-cbs-sportsline-gives-us.html
...except from Colin Cowherd, who wanted us to take someone else:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178834-collin-morning.html#post2363798
And it looks like someone was possibly hoping we'd get Webster:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178527-cross-your-fingers-chad-fords-mock.html
...he seemed pretty pleased in this post:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178944-big-guys.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178975-key-next-season.html#post2364953
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Fez Hammersticks
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Mychal Thompson over Larry Bird
Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
Greg Oden over Kevin Durant
Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
Greg Oden over Kevin Durant
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Well done, BC. That was fun.
BlazerCaravan
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Thank you. What strikes me is not so much the opinions, but the positivity and politeness among everyone of us from that era. We really were better back then, even though oursituation was worse. We have degraded as a group over the last 6 years.
jlprk
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It's time to set the world straight on Larue Martin, and fortunately, the world has me.
The prevailing theory was that the 1st pick should be a center, and Martin was the tallest in the 1972 NBA draft, taller than Gianelli and Hawes (projected as a forward). (Gianelli and Hawes are now seen as the best centers in that draft, which isn't saying much.) NBA pickings were slim due to the ABA. Yes, the NBA drafted Erving, but he had just finished his rookie year in the ABA (4th in points, 3rd in rebounds leaguewide). So McAdoo (projected as a forward) became NBA rookie of the year. Jim Chones was the best rookie center that year. He was ABA because a few months earlier, the ABA had signed him in the middle of his senior year, when he was college's 2nd best center after the sophomore Walton. Walton said he was surprised that a player would desert his college team.
Larue Martin's career was shortened to 4 years due to injury. (208 pounds was tiny for a center even then.) At the end, he got the 2 best coaches of centers in existence besides Wooden. First, Bill Russell brought him to the Sonics. Russell said that Martin would have been a better player if he hadn't been drafted so high and had been developed more slowly. Martin had gotten big minutes from the start and developed bad habits that Russell couldn't correct because Blazer coaching (McCloskey and Wilkens) didn't teach him much. After Russell waived him, Bill Fitch, a great unnoticed teacher of centers (Chones, Parish, Olajuwon), tried him and waived him too.
Ahh, I got in my weekly plug for Bill Fitch.
oldmangrouch
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Just to expand on your post.
That entire draft was thrown into chaos by the threat of lawsuits by the ABA, who held their draft first. They claimed one of their teams had an oral agreement with MacAdoo, and threatened to sue the NBA team that drafted him (same with several other players). On top of that, the NBA stated that some players, including Erving, were ineligible to be drafted at all.
One version of the story, is that the NBA front office warned teams not to draft MacAdoo, and the Blazers just blindly went along. Another version, is that MacAdoo told the Blazers he would testify that there was no contract, but his salary demands were too high. In either event, Buffalo obviously took the risk, and got the ROY.
One other note. MacAdoo (the #2 pick) was ROY. The runner up for ROY was Lloyd Neal, who was drafted (IIRC) in the 4th round! That is just how screwed up that draft was. The Blazers weren't the only team that was left scrambling to change their plans at the last minute because of the legal threats.
jlprk
The ESPN mod is insane.
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The league was a different landscape then, with crooked shenanigans. In 1971 I lived in Southern California, where Sidney Wicks had just won 2 NCAA championships with John Wooden. When Austin Carr went 1st in the draft, the local sportscasters were beside themselves in fury. Why did Cleveland pick Carr? In Nov. 2008 I finally found out, 37 years later. It was a legal bribe. Eggers says,
"Glickman reveals that the Blazers paid Cleveland $250,000 to take Austin Carr with the first pick in the 1971 draft, leaving Sidney Wicks to Portland -- a story I had not heard."
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=122640968731099300
"Glickman reveals that the Blazers paid Cleveland $250,000 to take Austin Carr with the first pick in the 1971 draft, leaving Sidney Wicks to Portland -- a story I had not heard."
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=122640968731099300
jlprk
The ESPN mod is insane.
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I'm not accusing the Blazers of taking a bribe to take Larue Martin (from the Buffalo Braves, or Loyola of Chicago, or someplace that would gain from Martin's being the #1 pick).
I'm just saying that the Blazer GM admitted participating in an identical bribe in an identical draft situation in the very previous draft exactly 1 year before, almost to the day.
Let us construe this as a "pairing of dissimilar events."
Save this history. I can now die in peace.
I'm just saying that the Blazer GM admitted participating in an identical bribe in an identical draft situation in the very previous draft exactly 1 year before, almost to the day.
Let us construe this as a "pairing of dissimilar events."
Save this history. I can now die in peace.
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I have no idea of the rules back then, but how is that different than letting Cleveland take Wicks and then trading Carr plus $250K for Wicks? That would certainly be allowed under the current CBA.
barfo
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We went 'round and 'round about it on this board (well, at a different site). I don't think that anyone actually LOVED Webster, they just had a lot of faith in Nash.
They ignored statements by STOMP about how great Paul was going to be, and they mocked my reiteration of expert opinions that considered him the best PG prospect since Magic Johnson.
I remember but one person on the "pro-Webster" side, who said not only that they should take him if they want him, but that they shouldn't trade down and risk losing him. Unfortunately, that poster no longer is active on this board. Unfortunately for me
Ed O.
I thought the main debate at the time was Gerald Green vs. Martell Webster.
