Canzano Calls The Worst Draft Pick In Blazers History......

[BlazerCaravan]

It was. Telfair had been pretty good his rookie year, so talk of Chris Pauland Deron Williams was limited to "this is kind of wild speculation, but..." talk. I searched that forum for several pages in either direction of the draft and didn't see a single "we shoulda taken Paul" post...

...except one from Colin Cowherd's radio sow, mimicking a Canzano opinion. It was basically derided by the forumers as idiotic. I didn't see Ed coming to Colin's defense, either.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Martin, Oden, Bowie, and possibly Thompson like Fez said. (In no specific order)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Thank you. What strikes me is not so much the opinions, but the positivity and politeness among everyone of us from that era. We really were better back then, even though oursituation was worse. We have degraded as a group over the last 6 years.

We were so much older then, we're younger than that now...

What did that nice insightful meru have to say? I remember him being the voice of reason...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I sort of agree with Canzano. If the Blazers had drafted Jordan then I wouldn't be a Blazers' fan. Big loss, I hear you say - but it's important to me.

And Bowie was actually a lot like Walton: a very skilled, clever finesse center, who could have been a lot better if he hadn't've been injured. AND he helped to get us Buck Williams, one of my all-time faves.

Meanwhile, while I can't dislike Martell, I would kill to have Deron Williams. (I'd maim to have Paul, but I prefer Williams.)

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Not taking Jordan wasn't the worst thing to happen, losing the coin flip was!

+Hakeem
-Bowie/Williams

and we win multiple championships.

 

[hasoos]

I will reluctantly agree with Canzany on this one.

There were extenuating circumstances for the Martin draft, and Bowie was picked to make Dr Jack happy. Why was the Webster pick made? That was just monkey-humping-a-moose-turd stupid.

You got it. Folks look at reality here. When Sam Bowie was drafted he was considered the coin flip equivelent of Hakeem Olajuwan in many ways. Whoevever won was going to take Olajuwan. It was generally accepted at the time that whoever lost would take Bowie. That is how I remember it anyhow. You cannot say the same thing about Webster.

 

[STOMP]

There was quite a bit of Webster love that week.

And it looks like someone was possibly hoping we'd get Webster:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178527-cross-your-fingers-chad-fords-mock.html

In defense of Ed O, he sounded pretty tepid about Webster in this link from your initial list...
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178884-we-drafted-good-guy-webster.html

As Ed noted, I was all about Chris Paul, but I could see the writing on the wall that Nash wasn't going to go that way because of who he'd drafted the year prior. Because of that, I'd largely given up championing CP's merits further in the weeks surrounding the draft and tried hard to be positive about the direction they were going. I'm sure I said something along the lines of I hope Martell lives up to his draft position too, as coming straight out of HS he was pretty much an unknown to all of us. If he really was worth passing on knowns like DWilliams and Paul, then that would have been great.

It did amaze me the way that some people were so sure that this was the right move though. Telfair had shown he was fast but thats about it. Martell was a complete question mark to all... for as team absolutely lacking in talent it seemed that MW being articulate and local resonated an undo amount. Oh well... looking back at past drafts lends some perspective to our present back and forths.

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

Everybody was willing to give Webster his run, nobody knew much about him besides that he had a good workout. When the teams management gives you no choice, there isn't a whole lot you can do but hope for the best. At that time, the team was so bad, we were pretty much looking for anything positive to go with, and unfortunately, all we got was a kick in the fucking teeth.

 

[STOMP]

Everybody was willing to give Webster his run, nobody knew much about him besides that he had a good workout. When the teams management gives you no choice, there isn't a whole lot you can do but hope for the best. At that time, the team was so bad, we were pretty much looking for anything positive to go with, and unfortunately, all we got was a kick in the fucking teeth.

beyond how stupid it is to apparently primarily base their evaluations on a single day's work, is the context of that workout. Matched up on fellow prospects 5'8 Nate Robinson and 6'3 Rashad McCants, GM Nash had this genius quote to relay..."What we learned today is that Martell Webster is capable of defending (shooting guards) at a very high level," Nash said. "(His) defense was very good and his ability to dribble the ball against pressure he can dribble the ball low to the floor was very impressive."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/428/martell-webster-s-workout-video

the only positive about that draft is that it sealed Nash's fate

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think even if Durant proves to be a Hall of Famer and Oden never stays healthy, it still wouldn't be the worst draft pick in franchise history, or a contender, for one reason: the pick made plenty of sense at the time.

It may be the most unfortunate pick, the unluckiest pick, but not the worst, because it wasn't a silly or dumb pick. The Bowie pick honestly didn't make sense at the time, because it was made from an illogical basis: select need over talent. Even at the time, very very few people thought Bowie was as or more talented than Jordan. He was simply one of the top big men and the Blazers were bound and determined to take a big man. When you're trying to maximize your chances of getting a top player, passing on a superior talent is always a mistake.

Similar things could be said about Webster. In Nash's view, the team already had its "point guard of the future" in Telfair, so he wasn't going to take another one. Disqualifying superior talents in Paul and Williams, due to perceived positional needs, fit right into the flawed basis that characterized the Bowie selection.

When Portland chose Oden, it wasn't a need over talent selection. At the time, the team believed it had a franchise perimeter player and big man in Roy and Aldridge. So it's unlikely that they felt they had to choose based on need. In addition, the consensus was that Oden was the most talented prospect in addition to being a big man. Oden had been considered a phenom since he was a sophomore in high school. His collegiate performance didn't contradict those scouting beliefs. While there will always be nay-sayers about any prospect (I remember people who were even detractors of LeBron James, when he was still just a prospect), Oden had a consensus about his ability that was near those for LeBron James and Tim Duncan, from my recollection.

So, it was the right pick based on the information at the time. That disqualifies it, in my mind, from being the "worst" pick (which, to me, connotes ineptness, short-sightedness or horrific scouting). Oden's performance when healthy has validated the scouting. The injuries, IMO, were not predictable. So if he remains injury-prone and busts for that reason, I'll chalk it up as supreme misfortune, not a terrible pick.

I see what you're saying; you and I just have a different set of criteria for what constitutes "worst." I make little account for the reasons one player was taken over another (need, BPA, etc.) I'm only looking at the gap in productivity between one pick and another. The gap between Jordan and Bowie is like the grand canyon and Bowie at least had a so-so yeoman's career that lasted around 10 years or so. The productivity/acclaim gap between Oden and Durant isn't huge (yet) but if Oden's career gets cut short and he never gets on track and Durant goes onto a HOF career then that's the primary factor by which I would compare the two. The decision making process that lead to one pick or another is largely irrelevant to me (even if the reasoning behind picking Oden was sound).

Conversely, if Oden gets his body right and puts the injury shortened seasons behind him and goes on to have an all-star level career (like his raw physical tools suggests he could) that gulf between he and KD never gets that wide and he'll be a nice consolation prize for missing on Durant.

 

[tlongII]

Certainly there were extenuating circumstances to the draft of 1972 when we picked Martin, but the fact remains that he was not a good player. He wasn't even a very good college player. We passed on McAdoo, Dr. J, and Paul Westphal to take him. Crazy.

 

[Nikolokolus]

There was quite a bit of Webster love that week.

http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178681-rate-blazers-draft-day.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178884-we-drafted-good-guy-webster.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178826-i-love-our-new-backcourt.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178563-nice-job-nash-patterson.html

...and Telfair love too (which is why we "didn't need" Paul or Deron):
http://www.basketballforum.com/port...ster-jack-article-hoopsworld.html#post2368079

(for the benefit of the new guys, Talkhard changed his name to Shooter later on)

We also got good grades on that draft overall:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178880-cbs-sportsline-gives-us.html

...except from Colin Cowherd, who wanted us to take someone else:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178834-collin-morning.html#post2363798

And it looks like someone was possibly hoping we'd get Webster:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178527-cross-your-fingers-chad-fords-mock.html

...he seemed pretty pleased in this post:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178944-big-guys.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178975-key-next-season.html#post2364953

On Cowherd: I find it funny that he pegged both Paul and Danny Granger as keepers, and mostly everybody panned him for it ... I'm glad I wasn't on BBF back in '05; I'm sure there'd be plenty I'd regret having dug up and posted (for the record, I loved the Jarret Jack pick and was neutral on Webster since I'd never seen him play and I remember thinking that Paul would be too small for the NBA).

 

[mook]

Conversely, if Oden gets his body right and puts the injury shortened seasons behind him and goes on to have an all-star level career (like his raw physical tools suggests he could) that gulf between he and KD never gets that wide and he'll be a nice consolation prize for missing on Durant.

If Oden somehow gets and stays healthy (admittedly a pretty whopping "if"), he's no consolation prize. He is the better player to have over Durant, particularly on a team that already has Roy and Aldridge.

 

[LittleAlex]

The 2005 pick was the worst ever, not because Portland missed on Paul but they actually missed on both Paul and Deron Williams (two of the top 5 point guards in the nba today) to take one of the more inconsistent players to ever wear a Blazer uniform.

 

[mook]

At this point with Oden I'm hoping for a Bill Walton-as-a-Blazer like career. One season of ultra-dominant play that leads to a championship in between injuries .

Or at least a Sabonis-like career--20-25 mpg of stellar center performance over a number of years, always missing 10-20 games/year.

Or perhaps both.

It's definitely a downgrade in expectations over "the next David Robinson" or "the next Patrick Ewing." And definitely a pretty poor consolation prize for missing out on Durant. But oh well. You can't live your life dwelling on missing out on the Jordans, Pauls and Durants or it'll drive you crazy.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If Oden somehow gets and stays healthy (admittedly a pretty whopping "if"), he's no consolation prize. He is the better player to have over Durant, particularly on a team that already has Roy and Aldridge.

I have a suspicion that the injuries may have robbed Oden of a pretty sizable chunk of his ceiling ... I don't think he's the same player that we drafted three years ago. I still think he's got top 5 center potential though.

 

[<-=*PdX*=->]

Michael Jordan wouldn't have stayed in Portland.

Let me ask this question that I have been pondering for a while.

Would Jordan have become Jordan if he was drafted by and played in Portland? I am not too sure. And who is to say if we took Durant that Oden might not be beasting on a different team right now? We will never know. Just don't forget, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Ed O]

And it looks like someone was possibly hoping we'd get Webster:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178527-cross-your-fingers-chad-fords-mock.html

Uh... no. I was delighted that Bynum would slide to us. And I didn't mind the idea of Webster altogether... I just definitely preferred Paul. At the #6 spot, Webster seemed a reasonable notion.

...he seemed pretty pleased in this post:
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178944-big-guys.html
http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-trail-blazers/178975-key-next-season.html#post2364953

I do? That seems pleased to you? Haha. I'm a worse communicator than I thought.

Here's an example of me being pleased:

http://www.edosblog.com/2006/06/blazermania-returns-to-seattle.html



Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

As Ed noted, I was all about Chris Paul, but I could see the writing on the wall that Nash wasn't going to go that way because of who he'd drafted the year prior. Because of that, I'd largely given up championing CP's merits further in the weeks surrounding the draft and tried hard to be positive about the direction they were going. I'm sure I said something along the lines of I hope Martell lives up to his draft position too, as coming straight out of HS he was pretty much an unknown to all of us. If he really was worth passing on knowns like DWilliams and Paul, then that would have been great.

The writing was on the wall, as you said. We were NOT going to get Chris Paul... so us reiterating the points we made shortly after winning the lottery wasn't going to be very fun.

(I tried to find posts closer to the lottery, where maybe Chris Paul was brought up... but the stupid search functionality never works for me on that site. Sorry.)

By this point, we'd seen Nash's idiocy (reaching for Telfair, giving away Wells, extending Zach and Theo, getting nothing for any expiring contracts, etc., etc.) and it seemed painfully clear Paul (and Williams, although I never advocated for Daron) just wasn't going to happen.

Ed O.

 

[tlongII]

In 2005 I pushed for D-Will, but I wasn't crushed when we took Webster.

 

[Minstrel]

Conversely, if Oden gets his body right and puts the injury shortened seasons behind him and goes on to have an all-star level career (like his raw physical tools suggests he could) that gulf between he and KD never gets that wide and he'll be a nice consolation prize for missing on Durant.

If Oden stays healthy and fulfills the promise that his talent and tools suggest he has, Durant will be the nice consolation prize for OKC.

My concern is not that Oden isn't as good or better than Durant. It's that he won't stay healthy.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

The writing was on the wall, as you said. We were NOT going to get Chris Paul... so us reiterating the points we made shortly after winning the lottery wasn't going to be very fun.

But that's like the entire point of these boards: saying the same thing over and over until nobody likes you anymore.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That seems pleased to you? Haha. I'm a worse communicator than I thought.

Ed O.

You really were; back then your emotional range was "meh" to "ehn". It was fucking annoying.

You're much better now, though.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I agree; I can't speak to LaRue, but for my money, Bowie over Jordan is the worst-looking draft pick in Blazer history. Martell over Paul/Williams is probably the most frustrating because we really could use either guy a lot right now.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That cover kind of makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Might as well have K*be in a #7 Blazer throwback red.

 

[MARIS61]

Michael Jordan wouldn't have stayed in Portland.

Neither would Paul or Williams.

Hell, Martell, Bayless and Rudy would even like to be somewhere else, and Travis already got his wish.

 

[Denny Crane]

My reason for LaRue.

he was taken based on 1 game against Bill Walton, and sucked every other minute he played in college and the NBA.

At least Bowie was good in college and had a respectable career in the NBA.

Martins career averages were 5 and 4 (although his per 36 #'s aren't atrocious). He played 4 seasons.



Martin was also taken BEFORE Bob MacAdoo and Dr. J (granted, they more than likely wouldn't have played in Portland..but they could've been traded ala Moses Malone).

Take a look at who did draft Dr. J, and what their lineup would have been.

 

[Denny Crane]

Just to expand on your post.

That entire draft was thrown into chaos by the threat of lawsuits by the ABA, who held their draft first. They claimed one of their teams had an oral agreement with MacAdoo, and threatened to sue the NBA team that drafted him (same with several other players). On top of that, the NBA stated that some players, including Erving, were ineligible to be drafted at all.

One version of the story, is that the NBA front office warned teams not to draft MacAdoo, and the Blazers just blindly went along. Another version, is that MacAdoo told the Blazers he would testify that there was no contract, but his salary demands were too high. In either event, Buffalo obviously took the risk, and got the ROY.

One other note. MacAdoo (the #2 pick) was ROY. The runner up for ROY was Lloyd Neal, who was drafted (IIRC) in the 4th round! That is just how screwed up that draft was. The Blazers weren't the only team that was left scrambling to change their plans at the last minute because of the legal threats.

The NBA had no hardship rule. The ABA did take guys who didn't finish college. George McGinnis is an obvious other such player.

 

[Denny Crane]

Mychal Thompson over Larry Bird
Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
Greg Oden over Kevin Durant

Thompson was a hell of a player, and a C to boot.

The Celtics gambled by taking Bird. He went back to college after being drafted and could have reentered the draft. He obviously did sign with the Celtics, but there is no guarantee he'd have signed with Portland.