Cap Situation for 09-10

[Sedatedfork]

If we sign enough 2nd rounders to start the season and do not sign any FA's, what will our cap situation be? Also, is Miles salary on our cap this year, or does he have to play another 10 games for it to be put on the cap? I thought earlier this year there was some information that he might not be on the cap this year if he was unable to play another 10 games.

If Miles isn't on the cap unless he plays another 10 games, it might be a very good plan to wait until the season starts to try to make a lopsided trade as we should have a lot of cap room to absorb a nasty contract. Thoughts?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Miles was put on our cap this year when he played 10 games last year.

With no FA's and only our second rounders, we would have somewhere around 6.5 to 7 million in cap space.

 

[Tince]

Claver, Koopnean, and Freeland's roughly $2.7 million come off our cap. If we signed Pendergraph and Cunningham to the minimum, that would add around a $1 million bucks. So I guess $1.6 million than we have right now.

We could make any of our additional contracts non-guaranteed, which I believe would allow us to waive them right before a trade to clear up even more cap space.

 

[Tince]

I just did the rough math and here is what I came up with:

Guaranteed Contract - $39,105,000
Darius Miles - $9,000,000
Cap Space = $9,595,000

Now, like I said earlier, this would not include non-guaranteed contracts to fill the roster. If you were to give Pendergraph and Cunningham two guaranteed contracts for the rookie minimum, it would shave another $1 million off our cap.

Summary: We'll have a lot more cap space once the season starts, vs this summer.

 

[BIG Q]

Claver, Koopnean, and Freeland's roughly $2.7 million come off our cap. If we signed Pendergraph and Cunningham to the minimum, that would add around a $1 million bucks. So I guess $1.6 million than we have right now.

We could make any of our additional contracts non-guaranteed, which I believe would allow us to waive them right before a trade to clear up even more cap space.

Pen and Cunn would just replace two of the cap holds. All of that $2.7 mil will be available when the season starts, as well as the $7.717 mil of cap space we will have when Utah matches Millsap.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I just did the rough math and here is what I came up with:

Guaranteed Contract - $39,105,000
Darius Miles - $9,000,000
Cap Space = $9,595,000

Now, like I said earlier, this would not include non-guaranteed contracts to fill the roster. If you were to give Pendergraph and Cunningham two guaranteed contracts for the rookie minimum, it would shave another $1 million off our cap.

Summary: We'll have a lot more cap space once the season starts, vs this summer.

Haha, yes. I went backwards instead of forwards.

I actually have us at about 8.5 though. I will have to do some refiguring.

It's sad all that cap space will be wasted on nothing.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Thanks guys. You think if we keep the cap space afte the season starts that any teams will want to make deals, or am I just setting myself up for disappointment?

 

[BIG Q]

Thanks guys. You think if we keep the cap space afte the season starts that any teams will want to make deals, or am I just setting myself up for disappointment?

I think lots of teams will want to deal. The problem is that they do not want to give Portland their missing piece. I am sure the league is afraid that Oden will show dominance this year as he is sure to be massively improved just from the MF surgery. Add to that he will be improved from summer workouts and then actually going through an NBA training camp for the first time with out restrictions. Add in the improvments that Rudy, Batum and Bayless will make transitioning from NBA rookie to experienced pros and the playoff experience all of the players got. Rival GM's are affraid to deal with Portland for a reason. The cap space will be valuable, but KP will only be able to deal with an Eastern GM. Nobody in the West will be dumb enough to deal with him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Thanks guys. You think if we keep the cap space afte the season starts that any teams will want to make deals, or am I just setting myself up for disappointment?

KP has shown zero ability to make trades during the season. I think you are setting yourself up for disapointment.

 

[glazeduck]

I think lots of teams will want to deal. The problem is that they do not want to give Portland their missing piece. I am sure the league is afraid that Oden will show dominance this year as he is sure to be massively improved just from the MF surgery. Add to that he will be improved from summer workouts and then actually going through an NBA training camp for the first time with out restrictions. Add in the improvments that Rudy, Batum and Bayless will make transitioning from NBA rookie to experienced pros and the playoff experience all of the players got. Rival GM's are affraid to deal with Portland for a reason. The cap space will be valuable, but KP will only be able to deal with an Eastern GM. Nobody in the West will be dumb enough to deal with him.

Given the economic status of many teams, I think it's fair to assume that SOMEONE will be willing to deal.

While it may not be the Chris Paul or Devin Harris for scraps that everyone is hoping for, we will VERY LIKELY, despite what Mediocre Man will have you believe, be able to add a piece or two at the deadline.

Push comes to shove, would you rather the cap space is wasted or have us pick up a vet backup pg, sf, or pf? Even if he's a rental, I expect we'll get SOMETHING (at worst), a BIG UPGRADE (at best) at the deadline.

 

[Peaceman]

I think lots of teams will want to deal. The problem is that they do not want to give Portland their missing piece. I am sure the league is afraid that Oden will show dominance this year as he is sure to be massively improved just from the MF surgery. Add to that he will be improved from summer workouts and then actually going through an NBA training camp for the first time with out restrictions. Add in the improvments that Rudy, Batum and Bayless will make transitioning from NBA rookie to experienced pros and the playoff experience all of the players got. Rival GM's are affraid to deal with Portland for a reason. The cap space will be valuable, but KP will only be able to deal with an Eastern GM. Nobody in the West will be dumb enough to deal with him.

That logic didn't work when Gasol was given to the Lakers to put them over the top. I think GM's do think about not wanting to help other temas in their division, but sometimes they still make bonehead deals out of desperation. Could Gasol have been moved to a different team with expiring contrats? Probably.

 

[Tince]

Pen and Cunn would just replace two of the cap holds. All of that $2.7 mil will be available when the season starts, as well as the $7.717 mil of cap space we will have when Utah matches Millsap.

How do you figure? Do you expect us to give them $1.4 million/year deals? I certainly don't. That's more than we're paying Batum or Rudy.

 

[Trader Ed]

Do yourselves a favor and bookmark this page. Storyteller spends many hours keeping this updated. It is more accurate than most professional sites

http://www.storytellerscontracts.com/resources/09-10salaries.htm

the Blazers have $7.7 mil in cap space right now

 

[Tince]

Do yourselves a favor and bookmark this page. Storyteller spends many hours keeping this updated. It is more accurate than most professional sites

http://www.storytellerscontracts.com/resources/09-10salaries.htm

the Blazers have $7.7 mil in cap space right now

The question is, what will we have once the season starts.

We currently have $7.7mil, the $2.6 in capholds are removed, then add in two rookie minimums and you're at $9.4. The rookie minimum contracts could easily be unguaranteed, which would give us flexibility to take back over $10mil in salary.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Or 14 if we send out Outlaw or Blake. Or 18 if we send both.

 

[BIG Q]

How do you figure? Do you expect us to give them $1.4 million/year deals? I certainly don't. That's more than we're paying Batum or Rudy.

Portland has 10 players under contract, and they have to have a minimum of 12 for cap consideration. That is why Portland has two cap holds. Portlands available cap space of $7.717 mil is based on Portland paying those 10 plus two more. That is league minimum salary that is being held back. If the league did not hold that money back Portland would have roughly an extra $900,000 of cap space. When Portland signs those two players that they must to get to 12 active players, the cap holds go away, being replaced by the signed players.

I do not know what you are talking about with the $1.4 mil stuff. Right now, if Pen and Cun make the roster, they will most likely get unguaranteed deals at the league minimum. They would in fact take the place of the cap holds and their salaries fit perfectly. If for some reason KP gave them say $750,000 each, their monies would come from the cap holds, which is $450,000 each, and then $300,000 each from our $7.717 mil of cap space, dropping it to $7.117 mil of cap space.

In summation, Portland has to have 12 active players against the cap. The Euros do not count as active players as they will not be playing in Portland. Thus, Portland has two cap holds that when combined with the 10 guys under contract to play in Portland next year gets them to the magical number of 12. If Pen and Cun have been signed, then the cap holds are gone and they make up players 11 and 12.

 

[BIG Q]

The question is, what will we have once the season starts.

We currently have $7.7mil, the $2.6 in capholds are removed, then add in two rookie minimums and you're at $9.4. The rookie minimum contracts could easily be unguaranteed, which would give us flexibility to take back over $10mil in salary.

You are forgetting about the two cap holds that are already factored into the cap. Against the cap Portland has 10 active players and two cap holds (and the 3 Euros, but they fall off of the cap when the season starts and do not count against the 12 active). Thus Portland already has monies allocated under the cap to pay Pen and Cun. When they are signed they slide into the cap hold spots, not eating any more cap space. The money for those two minimum contracts were alreadt subtracted from Portlands cap number that got them to $7.717 mil of space.

 

[Tince]

You are forgetting about the two cap holds that are already factored into the cap. Against the cap Portland has 10 active players and two cap holds (and the 3 Euros, but they fall off of the cap when the season starts and do not count against the 12 active). Thus Portland already has monies allocated under the cap to pay Pen and Cun. When they are signed they slide into the cap hold spots, not eating any more cap space. The money for those two minimum contracts were alreadt subtracted from Portlands cap number that got them to $7.717 mil of space.

I thought Kop and Freelands cap holds were $771k each, and Clavers was $1.2mil. I didn't realize there was the extra cap hold for the 11th and 12th spots that was not only greater than the rookie minimum, but also overrides the salaries of the two players that fill those spots.

I was using the 2009-2010 rookie minimum of $457k as stated at Larry Coon's FAQ site.

Can you show me where you are finding the site that explains this caphold that is larger than that for the 2 roster spots?

I was just using this math: OUR CURRENT SPACE + EURO PLAYER CAP HOLDS - (2 x ROOKIE MIN) = Projected Cap Space

 

[BIG Q]

I thought Kop and Freelands cap holds were $771k each, and Clavers was $1.2mil. I didn't realize there was the extra cap hold for the 11th and 12th spots that was not only greater than the rookie minimum, but also overrides the salaries of the two players that fill those spots.

I was using the 2009-2010 rookie minimum of $457k as stated at Larry Coon's FAQ site.

Can you show me where you are finding the site that explains this caphold that is larger than that for the 2 roster spots?

I was just using this math: OUR CURRENT SPACE + EURO PLAYER CAP HOLDS - (2 x ROOKIE MIN) = Projected Cap Space

I use Coons site as well. What you are trying to do is compute the math after the cap was set. Actually, the math was all done before the cap was set so that when the cap was set, the math would be correct. When the cap was set on July 8, Portland had 10 active contracts, and the 3 euros and 3 unsigned 2nd round draft picks. This left them with $7.717 mil of cap space.

As mentioned, a team must have 12 active players. The Euros will not count as any of the 12 active contracts as they will be playing in Europe. The Euros count against the cap for cap setting purposes, and have been counted against the cap, setting it at $7.717 mil. They do not count against the cap when the season starts, so Portland will get that extra $2.7 mil (roughly) to use if they do not spend the entire $7.717 mil.

Second round draft picks do not count against the cap until they are signed. Pen and Cun may be signed. I am not sure. But it does not matter at this point as there are two minimum salary cap holds, that were put against Portland when the cap was set because they only had 10 active contracts and they must account for 10 when the cap is set. The NBA just automatically throws in minimum scale for contracts as place holders. In our scenario, those cap holds/cap space holds will be replaced most likely by Pen and Cun, putting us at 12 active contracts. Again, those cap holds were already figured into the salary cap and when all was computed Portland has $7.717 mil of space. Now if they signed Mills also, he would be the 13th player and his salary would count against our $7.717 mil.

So, on Nov. 1, if Portland has not spent any of their cap money, they will have all of the $7.717 mil, and also the entire $2.7 mil (roughly) cap space from the Euros dropping off of the cap for a total of $10.417 mil.

 

[Tince]

I use Coons site as well. What you are trying to do is compute the math after the cap was set. Actually, the math was all done before the cap was set so that when the cap was set, the math would be correct. When the cap was set on July 8, Portland had 10 active contracts, and the 3 euros and 3 unsigned 2nd round draft picks. This left them with $7.717 mil of cap space.

As mentioned, a team must have 12 active players. The Euros will not count as any of the 12 active contracts as they will be playing in Europe. The Euros count against the cap for cap setting purposes, and have been counted against the cap, setting it at $7.717 mil. They do not count against the cap when the season starts, so Portland will get that extra $2.7 mil (roughly) to use if they do not spend the entire $7.717 mil.

Second round draft picks do not count against the cap until they are signed. Pen and Cun may be signed. I am not sure. But it does not matter at this point as there are two minimum salary cap holds, that were put against Portland when the cap was set because they only had 10 active contracts and they must account for 10 when the cap is set. The NBA just automatically throws in minimum scale for contracts as place holders. In our scenario, those cap holds/cap space holds will be replaced most likely by Pen and Cun, putting us at 12 active contracts. Again, those cap holds were already figured into the salary cap and when all was computed Portland has $7.717 mil of space. Now if they signed Mills also, he would be the 13th player and his salary would count against our $7.717 mil.

So, on Nov. 1, if Portland has not spent any of their cap money, they will have all of the $7.717 mil, and also the entire $2.7 mil (roughly) cap space from the Euros dropping off of the cap for a total of $10.417 mil.

Oh good, that's what I thought. I thought you were saying we'd still only have $7.7mil in cap space despite the Euro's dropping off.