<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaxaMillion711 @ Apr 23 2008, 03:09 PM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>by judging the past teams he was consider the leader on. His attitude and demeanor.</div>
his first 6 full seasons in Toronto, he was the leader and he was doing just what Tmac is doing in Houston. Playing very well, but the supporting cast around him just couldnt do it. People like Loren Woods, Lonny Baxter, D-League players basically. People forget about year 6. It was just like this most recent year. Around 22ppg, and a true team leader. At the end of the year, there were rumblings that Vince was so mad at management, he wanted to win NOW and that team was clearly not close to winning. But they were happy with him. i still have interviews, where he is acting VERY VERY immature and punkish (meloish). very surprising. TO fans dont hate Vince for the 1st 6 years at least they shouldnt.... It was that summer, and those last 20 games which is what people look at, and ONLY that, not the 6 years where you knew he wanted to win and gave it his all. Thost last 20 games were pretty bad, and I wont get into it. All ill say is that its not as clean cut as "vince tanked it"...I watched all 20 in their entirety, and even went to 1 of them live and watched vince the whole time cause i knew he was about to leave.
when he came to jersey, in 05, in 06, and parts of 07, his demeanor and attitude were great and he kinda was the leader even though Jason was the real leader. in 1st half of 08, he was not the leader. he was reduced to a scrub. i think that has to do with the new offense, jason kidd wanting to leave, richard jefferson stepping up his role, vinces bad ankle, and just vince not playing well...i can admit that cause it was obvious.
2nd half of 08, he was stellear. old vince. pretty much 24ppg, 6rbs, 5assts, 2stls, 1blk, 45%, 50% from 3...everything you could want in a player. and he did it all on one ankle. he said all the right things in the locker room, he was optimistic and he redeemed himself in the eyes of the new york/jersey media and analysis. and his defense was great too. they commented that every game pretty much.
so at this point in his career, 31, he is putting his entire game together, and with the leadership and defense coming a long way. it looks like for the rest of his career, he will have a very very good all around game. he has come a long way since the VC in TO. for good, in my eyes at least.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Look at the younger generation of leaders Chris Paul and Lebron. When they get on the court they are not just trying to beat their opponents. They are trying to destroy them and piss on their graves when they're finish. You look at Lebron in the playoffs and you have to be amazed at what this kid and I emphasize A FREAKING KID. Who already has it in his head I'm do what ever the hell I have to win and I will carry this team on shoulders. That is a leader. Someone who will not accept losing. Who hates it and the franchise knows how much he hates it that they will do whatever they can to make sure it doesn't become a habit.
Carter has already admitted he does not have what you would call a killer instinct and on a team full of young players I don't think a player who is gracious loser is something you want to pass on as acceptable.</div>
Cant argue there. he is not like CP3 or Lebron. They are different kinds of players. Better in a lot of ways. Vince has NEVER had that killer instinct. he has had it in spurts. in high school and college he never had it. he was taught differently and he just naturally is a really nice guy who is not like lebron or mj or kobe, scowling and killing you. there is no point saying that...cause hes not and never been.
he does laugh at losing a lot and smile a lot during losing. i know TO fans really hate that and im sure nets fans hate it too. cant blame them...cant defend vince there. he does it. but i do know he also does show a lot of anger and disappointment and if you watch his pre and post game interviews like i did, you will see that. and lawrence frank talked about how in the locker room, where we DONT see him, he is true leader, leading this young guys and hes doing it great. so there is a vince we dont see...on the bus, on the plane, in the locker room.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As someone said right now VC needs to be in a situation where he like Utah where he is not expected to be the leader or to put an entire franchise on his back.</div>
i agree. vince has gotten the individual glory. his best shot at winning a ring is on a team with a great supporting cast and other leaders, where he doesnt have to be THE guy. he tried that, he did a lot of good. but never past the 2nd round. he is a player who can win a 1st round series and half of a 2nd round series, that is who he is over his career. vince should be the paul pierce on a boston-like team. he is VERY VERY VERY unselfish and he proved that this year by WILLINGLY coming off the bench after he got injured. people forget that it seems, L frank talked about it at the time about how great it is to have vince accept that and "do whatever is best for the team".
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>but to answer your question all I have to do is look at now and the past and until something different happens I will gladly eat my words with a side of french fries and a chocolate shake.</div>
i am glad you bring up a lot of good points but your not the typical message board guy going 'DUHHH VC SUCKS, HE IS A P*SSY AND SOFT AND A BABY etc". i agree with your points mostly. here is mine I hope you will get:
vc is not kobe or lebron or cp3. but thats not a bad thing.
vc is never going to be like them. but thats not a bad thing.
vc has the talent of those players but an unselfish attitude about it...he TRUELY does care about the team more than himself. sometimes thats good, sometimes thats bad and ends up hurting the team. but that is who he is, and that is who hes always gonna be. he will show it in spurts, but in the end, it all comes down to a TEAM game. vince knows that.
vince can only take a franchise so far. i think he should be on a team that can win now where he can seriously help them and not be like Jerry Stackhouse on dallas, but like paul and ray on boston.
KG couldnt do it in minni, Ray couldnt do it in seattle, and paul certainly couldnt do it in boston. tmac couldnt do it in Orlando, baron couldnt do it in new orleans, kobe couldnt do it in LA (until they got gasol and fish and bynum!)
so with that i say, vince couldnt do it in TO. 1 player cant win you a ring..the exception is lebron cause hes a monster.
there is no shame in that, thats what im saying dude. the only argument i can see to all i said is:
"then why is vince getting paid like a franchise player if he isnt"
for that, i really dont have an answer. sorry. youve got me there.
as you can tell, im an optimistic guy. i really dont like to dwell on the negatives as a player but rather focus on the game of basketball and the different personalities that surround it. its more fun to be optimistic than it is to always point out the negatives.
maybe Rick Kalma (yeah sorry...quoting him, haha) said it best about vince being a hall of fame player:
"dont focus on what he has not done. and dont focus on what his weaknesses are. just behold the highlights, the stats and the resume......vince is 31 years old, hes averaging 23.8 pts for his career. that is the 18th best scoring average in the history of the nba. and vince, at 31, has a nice career point total at 16,094 (more since he said it)..if vince remains at or above 20ppg until the age of 35, which is NOT farfetched at all, he will be at 23,000pts for his career. now 19 players in nba history have gone 23,000 or more. 18 of those 19 are either in the hall of fame, or locks to go to the hall of fame. (since then, dantley has gone in the hall of fame so thats 19/19)"
maybe thats why hes a franchise $$$ guy. he can score with the best of em, and play a true team game. he definitely is a top 15...10 if hes healthy player in the nba. hes not cp3 of kobe or lebron, but there is no shame in being behind them. vince is vince. i hope you can look at him a little better after reading this . thanks for reading it everyone..those who did. *phew*
</div>
his salary is 31st most largest in the nba, i dont believe that is franchise guy $$$
i do agree with what you have written tho...
He has the franchise player skill set but does not have the mentality.
