Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on program

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Isn't it grand that the democrats who control the house, senate, and white house have found reason to put a halt on spending an amount that's .00028 of the size of Obama's proposed budget for this year?

Heck, this is a trivial amount of spending that actually helps people with direct cash instead of giving it to Goldman Sachs.

The redistribution of wealth wasn't supposed to be that easy. I still am waiting for the stories of the people who default on their new loans with this program.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Isn't it grand that the democrats who control the house, senate, and white house have found reason to put a halt on spending an amount that's .00028 of the size of Obama's proposed budget for this year?

Heck, this is a trivial amount of spending that actually helps people with direct cash instead of giving it to Goldman Sachs.

If you want to consider it actual stimulus spending (which it is), it comes to .00128 of that $778B pork barrel bill with "emergency stimulus" on the label.

jeez would you people read the damn article. congress is not putting a halt on spending the amount. the DOT is temporarily suspending the program until they can determine if the amount is already spent or not.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

jeez would you people read the damn article. congress is not putting a halt on spending the amount. the DOT is temporarily suspending the program until they can determine if the amount is already spent or not.

Denny's point resonates even more deeply for me knowing this information.

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

the trouble is the program has been exponentially more successful than anyone anticipated. i'd be willing to bet congress will add additional funding within a few days.

On what metric are you basing this statement?

 

[bodyman5001]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Hey, the more I see these programs in action the more I realize that they help me.

New cars require insurance. People buy new cars to drive. Then they wreck them...work for me.

On the other hand, other people are out of a job and their taxes are going to go way up. That sucks.

However, my girlfriend works for a lower priced business that people still need. They still need the service her company provides, but more people might go to her stores as they are cheaper.

Win win for me.

For the American population as a whole...not so much.

We positioned ourselves perfectly for the Obama administration by pure luck. Yippee.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

On what metric are you basing this statement?

public response

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

public response

So popularity is a good metric for success?

A program giving anybody that breaths $1million would be very popular, and taken advantage of, but hardly a "success".

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

public response

people like getting money on behalf of someone else? get outta town!

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

So popularity is a good metric for success?

i'm pointing out why the DOT thinks the money may be gone already and had to suspend the program, not arguing merits of the program

you can replace "successful" with "popular" if it makes you feel better

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

people like getting money on behalf of someone else? get outta town!

it's not like they are just giving money away to whoever wants it. obviously to take advantage you have to commit to a large purchase and the rules for qualification are fairly restrictive. i think it's understandable that the response was underestimated.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

it's not like they are just giving money away to whoever wants it. obviously to take advantage you have to commit to a large purchase and the rules for qualification are fairly restrictive. i think it's understandable that the response was underestimated.

I think it would be understandable for the average citizen to keep their current vehicle versus taking a credit and likely a new loan for a new vehicle.

Again, wake me up when the default sob stories who lost their new car start appearing in front of Congress as yet another "victim" of the evil lenders.

 

[mook]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

As somebody who happens to like driving "clunkers", I really hate the government coming in and driving up the prices on them with this rebate. Every time they take a $4000 perfectly functional car off the road and wreck it, they make it a little harder for cheap (me) and poor people to buy transportation. That I have to pay taxes for the government to artificially drive up the price of clunkers eats me up even more.

Besides, I thought one of the basic principles of recycling and taking care of the earth is to use our resources wisely. How wise is it to just junk a vehicle which may still have several more years of life on it?

I'm one of the more liberal people on this board, but I think the entire premise is asinine.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

I think it would be understandable for the average citizen to keep their current vehicle versus taking a credit and likely a new loan for a new vehicle.

Again, wake me up when the default sob stories who lost their new car start appearing in front of Congress as yet another "victim" of the evil lenders.

given the rapid depreciation of new cars i would guess predatory lending was never much of a problem in the new auto industry. it certainly isn't now as most auto finance corps and credit unions have restricted credit requirements a lot since the economic downturn. tough to get a new auto loan at all right now with less than stellar credit.

also according to dealers posting on edmunds.com forums the majority of people taking advantage of cash for clunkers are paying cash, and those asking to finance generally have great credit. so it's not really attracting the type of crowd that would be vulnerable.

better find something else to bitch about

 

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

given the rapid depreciation of new cars i would guess predatory lending was never much of a problem in the new auto industry. it certainly isn't now as most auto finance corps and credit unions have restricted credit requirements a lot since the economic downturn. tough to get a new auto loan at all right now with less than stellar credit.

also according to dealers posting on edmunds.com forums the majority of people taking advantage of cash for clunkers are paying cash, and those asking to finance generally have great credit. so it's not really attracting the type of crowd that would be vulnerable.

better find something else to bitch about

We know this because the system has been shut down? What is edmunds.com, and I doubt people who are paying in cash need a max of a $4500 rebate for a new car.

Did you pay cash? Seems like a worthless program in one sense, yet is it actually stimulating the economy in another sense. So why shut it down?

 

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

given the rapid depreciation of new cars i would guess predatory lending was never much of a problem in the new auto industry.:

Your loan is based on the purchase price. What does depreciation do other than escalate the inflation of the loan compared to the asset?

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

As somebody who happens to like driving "clunkers", I really hate the government coming in and driving up the prices on them with this rebate. Every time they take a $4000 perfectly functional car off the road and wreck it, they make it a little harder for cheap (me) and poor people to buy transportation. That I have to pay taxes for the government to artificially drive up the price of clunkers eats me up even more.

most vehicles being clunked are large SUVs and minivans, so i doubt the program will have much of an effect on the price of more desireable used vehicles. not any kind of long-term effect anyway.

Besides, I thought one of the basic principles of recycling and taking care of the earth is to use our resources wisely. How wise is it to just junk a vehicle which may still have several more years of life on it?

for what it's worth the law mandates that the clunkers are sold to scrap yards to part out and recycle whatever metal is left. i'd agree that the real value of taking useful vehicles out of circulation is debatable.

I'm one of the more liberal people on this board, but I think the entire premise is asinine.

the implementation is probably flawed, but i wouldn't say the premise itself is asinine. it may not be worth the money it's costing, but it will cut public fuel consumption and stimulate the auto industry to some extent.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

the implementation is probably flawed, but i wouldn't say the premise itself is asinine. it may not be worth the money it's costing, but it will cut public fuel consumption and stimulate the auto industry to some extent.

This is true, and it baffling to me why a mere $1 billion program that is actually stimulating the economy would be suspended while the unrelated $787 billion non-stimulus continues to drag us all down.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Your loan is based on the purchase price. What does depreciation do other than escalate the inflation of the loan compared to the asset?

that's the point. if the buyer is upside down in the loan and the lender has to repossess the car the lender has to eat the depreciation. the lender is better off getting the money than the vehicle, so no reason to take a chance on someone with poor credit.

different situation than with the pre-collapse housing industry when property generally was appreciating.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

This is true, and it baffling to me why a mere $1 billion program that is actually stimulating the economy would be suspended while the unrelated $787 billion non-stimulus continues to drag us all down.

i hope you're just yanking my chain at this point lol.

but ok - again, the program isn't being suspended to save money. it's being suspended because the money may be gone already. it's likely that they will add more funding and re-start it.

 

[mook]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

most vehicles being clunked are large SUVs and minivans, so i doubt the program will have much of an effect on the price of more desireable used vehicles. not any kind of long-term effect anyway.

Explain to a single mom making $25k/year with two or three kids that the minivan she needs isn't available at a price she can afford, but that's ok because it's a short term problem. In a few years it'll sort itself out.

The last "clunker" I bought was a $6000 SUV. If this program continues, I have little doubt that such an SUV will soon cost more, simply because it'll be the cheapest available SUV on the market, and market demand will drive it up. Why should I be stuck paying a higher price for my budget SUV, when the rich guy driving the $40k SUV won't be impacted at all?

If the objective is to reduce fuel consumption, it's a lot more fair and direct to just impose a higher tax on fuel.

the implementation is probably flawed, but i wouldn't say the premise itself is asinine. it may not be worth the money it's costing, but it will cut public fuel consumption and stimulate the auto industry to some extent.

Why not just offer a tax credit for purchases of more fuel efficient vehicles? Buy a car that gets 40 mpg or better, and get a $3000 government rebate. Simple as that.

Why do perfectly good cheap cars have to be destroyed? That's the part I just don't understand.

 

[STOMP]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Why do perfectly good cheap cars have to be destroyed? That's the part I just don't understand.

I'd guess the theory is so we can consume more and get money flowing again

btw, I bought a used 80,000 mile Civic about a year back... 80K is pretty much my decided on best value purchase point. New cars are for rich people and suckers.

STOMP

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

I'd guess the theory is so we can consume more and get money flowing again

btw, I bought a used 80,000 mile Civic about a year back... 80K is pretty much my decided on best value purchase point. New cars are for rich people and suckers.

STOMP

The key is to buy enough crap cars for under $500 and trade all of them up for a new Mercedes. I know that is against the rules, but it's a nice thought.


Also, a side thought.

Since the economy is slowly fixing itself according to "experts" and our President takes every opportunity possible to remind us that this is Bush's economy, does that mean Obama is allowed to take any credit when it turns around?

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

New cars are for rich people and suckers.

new cars at full price are for rich people and suckers. when you add a $4500 discount on top of existing dealer incentives which are already at an all-time high right now it's a little different.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

Explain to a single mom making $25k/year with two or three kids that the minivan she needs isn't available at a price she can afford, but that's ok because it's a short term problem. In a few years it'll sort itself out.

The last "clunker" I bought was a $6000 SUV. If this program continues, I have little doubt that such an SUV will soon cost more, simply because it'll be the cheapest available SUV on the market, and market demand will drive it up. Why should I be stuck paying a higher price for my budget SUV, when the rich guy driving the $40k SUV won't be impacted at all?

the program is only removing 250k or so vehicles which is a drop in the bucket, and the majority of vehicles being traded are very low-demand junkers worth $500-$1500. i don't see how that will have any significant effect on the decent used car market. there may be a slight temporary bump while the program is going on.

 

[Shapecity]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

The redistribution of wealth wasn't supposed to be that easy. I still am waiting for the stories of the people who default on their new loans with this program.

There's already a lot of stories. The default rate is close to 70% on loan re-mods.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

There's already a lot of stories. The default rate is close to 70% on loan re-mods.

that has nothing to do with CFC

 

[maxiep]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

If the program is being suspended because the demand for this program is significantly higher than expected, then it's a repudiation of this administration's economic policies. This "rebate" money is nothing more than a direct government giveback of your own money, no different than the Bush Administration's "stimulus" package in 2008.

Rather than the government building a bureaucracy and deciding how our tax dollars are going to be spent, this program was just put into a kitty and a check was sent to dealers, allowing them to lower the price of a new car. Hmm, lower the cost and the demand increases? Allow people to have more of their own money in their pockets and demand increases? I'm shocked.

Art Laffer had an interesting proposal a few weeks ago. He said that the amount the Obama Administration had spent (as of the end of June) equalled the amount of all projected tax receipts for the next 19 months. So, instead of this projected spending, if your goal was to really stimulate the economy, simply don't collect any Federal taxes--wages, capital gains, FICA, estate, etc.--for the next 19 months and the economy would be much better off. It's hard to say he's wrong.

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

adding 2 billion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32228179/ns/business-autos

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

adding 2 billion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32228179/ns/business-autos

thank god we're not using that money for hospitals, fighting crime, schools or lowering our deficit. Johnny needs a new ride yo!

Its not like $3 billion would make a difference, might as well get more people into debt with new rides that THEY DESERVE. ITS THEIR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT!

 

[crowTrobot]

Re: Cash for Clunkers- Clunked. Congress to Halt, $96 million already spent on progra

thank god we're not using that money for hospitals, fighting crime, schools or lowering our deficit.

right. too bad we're using it instead to help cut dependance on foreign oil and stimulate the dying auto industry in hopes of saving jobs. what a waste.