Cavs need a point guard?

[Rastapopoulos]

Mo Williams is out for a month. That leaves the Cavs with Delonte "the Terminator" West and Daniel "Boobie" Gibson, who is a LONG way from the player that was MVP of last year's rookie/soph game (wasn't he?). Don't you think they'd love to rent Steve Blake for the rest of the season?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Hmm. Now I look at their roster, there's nobody I really want that they'd be prepared to trade. I guess the closest would actually be Delonte West, who is a great great backcourt defender, but also certifiably insane and ready to snap at any moment. Jamario Moon and Leon Powe, perhaps? Of course, I'd really like Sideshow Bob, especially as he leads the Cavs in +/-, but I'm certain he's not available. They'd probably give up Big Z, and that's a nice expiring contract, but they'd almost certainly want size in return, and all we can offer is Juwan Howard. (I bet they could use Webster.)

 

[Public Defender]

I'd consider taking Powe for him, especially considering how thin the Blazers are this season upfront.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Hmm. Now I look at their roster, there's nobody I really want that they'd be prepared to trade. I guess the closest would actually be Delonte West[/URL], who is a great great backcourt defender, but also certifiably insane and ready to snap at any moment.

Well, we do have a team psychologist, don't we?

 

[RR7]

We can just dump salary, for the heck of it, I suppose. 4 way trade, Washington, Cleveland, Memphis and Portland.

Cleveland In: Jamison, Blake
Cleveland Out: Ilgauskus, Hickson

Portland In: 2 1st roudners from Memphis(Denver and LA)
Portland Out: Blake, Outlaw

Memphis In: Outlaw
Memphis Out: Marcus Williams, 2 1sts

Washington In; Ilgauskus, Williams, Hickson
Washington Out: Jamison

Biggest issue is Washington taking on more salary for this season. We'd have close to 9 million in cap space to potentially help out a different team, looking to shed salary to get under the tax.

 

[Wheels]

We can just dump salary, for the heck of it, I suppose. 4 way trade, Washington, Cleveland, Memphis and Portland.

Cleveland In: Jamison, Blake
Cleveland Out: Ilgauskus, Hickson

Portland In: 2 1st roudners from Memphis(Denver and LA)
Portland Out: Blake, Outlaw

Memphis In: Outlaw
Memphis Out: Marcus Williams, 2 1sts

Washington In; Ilgauskus, Williams, Hickson
Washington Out: Jamison

Biggest issue is Washington taking on more salary for this season. We'd have close to 9 million in cap space to potentially help out a different team, looking to shed salary to get under the tax.

we get younger.. and get rid of one healthy player?

 

[RR7]

I should add that I would most definitely expect a follow up move on our part. Not sure where that would ttie in at. But using that 9 million in cap space, the immediate cap/tax relief could be very valuable for some teams. Would Phoenix move Amare for Joel, Rudy and a first? Probably not, with Joel's second year, but it does drop them from 5 million over, to 2-3 million under the LT this season. Figuring a LT payout to non-paying teams of 4 million dollars, and that's basically a savings THIS season for Phoenix of something close to 16 million dollars. With a check for 3 million from Paul, that would be MORE than enough to cover Joel's salary for next season. I don't really like giving up Rudy in the deal. WOuld love to do it with Freeland, Kopo and Claver instead, but I doubt they would. We'd be alright for this season, and then see what happens in the offseason with Amare, and explore potential sign and trade deals with him, if at all possible. If not, could be a big loss, losing Joel and Rudy. Or, we could turn around AGAIN, and move Amare, for pieces we might value mroe than Phoenix would.

Hey, it's Friday, I'm bored at work. Sorry.

 

[RR7]

we get younger.. and get rid of one healthy player?

See below, the key is adding another player after the fact, with that cap space. I know Amare is probably a long shot. But someone will look at that relief as golden. Just looking at the cap space and 2 extra firsts as additional assets to use elsewhere if possible. Obviously, you line up a second deal before you make that first one.

 

[Wheels]

See below, the key is adding another player after the fact, with that cap space. I know Amare is probably a long shot. But someone will look at that relief as golden. Just looking at the cap space and 2 extra firsts as additional assets to use elsewhere if possible. Obviously, you line up a second deal before you make that first one.

gotcha.. makes more sense now that the 2nd part is there lol.

 

[hasoos]

They are going to be in deep shit when they start facing teams with real PG on them. You could tell they were having problems getting the offense intitiated last night. If I was an opposing coach, I would actually put my best defender on their guy trying to fill in at the point and see if you could stop them from getting the ball up the floor.

 

[RR7]

Alternative to that deal, stupid ESPN doesn't allow you to enter in a lot o fplayers, and RealGM's trade checker kind of sucks to work with, so will try to do it by the actual numbers.

Cleveland In: Jamison, Blake
Cleveland Out: Ilgauskus, Hickson, 1st rounder

Memphis In: Outlaw
Memphis Out: Williams, 2 1sts.

Portland In: Haywood, Butler, Oberto, LAL's 1st
Portland Out: Joel, Blake, Outlaw, Mills

Washington In: Joel, Ilgauskus, Hickson, Cleveland's 1st, Denver's 1st, Mills, Williams
Washington Out: Jamison, Butler, Haywood, Oberto

Cleveland gets a solid stretch 4 and a good backup PG at a pretty minimal cost. Z would be bought out, and re-sign with them, as well.

Memphis gets a player they have coveted, for 2 late firsts, and a player not seeing much time anyways.

Portland adds front court depth, and a solid wing in Butler. I might even look to move Butler in a follow up deal, potentially.

Washington. They lose a ton on the talent side of the deal. But currently, they are over the LT limit by 8,999,437. This deal would shave 8,550,981. So they'd be over by about 400,000. If they can buy out Z for 11 million, instead of the 11.6 he will make this season(Money Z would make up by re-signing with Cleveland, and I'm assuming he;d be open to), Washington in one move would gain 2 late firsts(maybe even 3, shoudl probably just give them LA's pick as well), a decent young PF in Hickson, a PG in Mills who has some potential, and would go from paying almost 18 million in L.T. to receiving the 4 million dollar pay-out for teams under the threshold. A 22 million dollar savings THIS season. They take on a year of Joel's deal, but still save 16.5 off of next season's salary, and then the additional 15 Jamison is owed in 2011-12. They would drop to roughly 13 million UNDER the cap this offseason, and obviously, aton more if they can remove Arenas. But if not, they can start fresh.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Joel and Andre for Z and a late first or two works financially. And it gives us about as much cap room this summer than we had last summer. (We'd be around 46M with holds and stuff)

 

[Wheels]

Joel and Andre for Z and a late first or two works financially. And it gives us about as much cap room this summer than we had last summer. (We'd be around 46M with holds and stuff)

I know you may be in last place with the standings game.. BUT if we could get cap room for this summer, WHILE getting help at the 5 spot THIS year.. you are a pure genius.

 

[RR7]

The cap space that move would generate would be fairly close to the MLE. I'd much prefer to keep Andre for this season. Also, I don't think Cleveland would make that deal, and most deals they are looking for, I believe they want Z bought out.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Alternative to that deal, stupid ESPN doesn't allow you to enter in a lot o fplayers, and RealGM's trade checker kind of sucks to work with, so will try to do it by the actual numbers.

Cleveland In: Jamison, Blake
Cleveland Out: Ilgauskus, Hickson, 1st rounder

Memphis In: Outlaw
Memphis Out: Williams, 2 1sts.

Portland In: Haywood, Butler, Oberto, LAL's 1st
Portland Out: Joel, Blake, Outlaw, Mills

Washington In: Joel, Ilgauskus, Hickson, Cleveland's 1st, Denver's 1st, Mills, Williams
Washington Out: Jamison, Butler, Haywood, Oberto

Cleveland gets a solid stretch 4 and a good backup PG at a pretty minimal cost. Z would be bought out, and re-sign with them, as well.

Memphis gets a player they have coveted, for 2 late firsts, and a player not seeing much time anyways.

Portland adds front court depth, and a solid wing in Butler. I might even look to move Butler in a follow up deal, potentially.

Washington. They lose a ton on the talent side of the deal. But currently, they are over the LT limit by 8,999,437. This deal would shave 8,550,981. So they'd be over by about 400,000. If they can buy out Z for 11 million, instead of the 11.6 he will make this season(Money Z would make up by re-signing with Cleveland, and I'm assuming he;d be open to), Washington in one move would gain 2 late firsts(maybe even 3, shoudl probably just give them LA's pick as well), a decent young PF in Hickson, a PG in Mills who has some potential, and would go from paying almost 18 million in L.T. to receiving the 4 million dollar pay-out for teams under the threshold. A 22 million dollar savings THIS season. They take on a year of Joel's deal, but still save 16.5 off of next season's salary, and then the additional 15 Jamison is owed in 2011-12. They would drop to roughly 13 million UNDER the cap this offseason, and obviously, aton more if they can remove Arenas. But if not, they can start fresh.

Sign me up! This deal would be incredible- we'd be contending this year with Butler, Oberto and Haywood

 

[BrianFromWA]

The cap space that move would generate would be fairly close to the MLE. I'd much prefer to keep Andre for this season. Also, I don't think Cleveland would make that deal, and most deals they are looking for, I believe they want Z bought out.

From what I've understood, they want Z bought out and back for them to be on the playoff roster. I think he has to wait 30 days from the trade to do that anyway.

The cap space would be close to the MLE (maybe 2M more), but that's also counting 3 Euro holds and our first round hold. LMA straight-up for an S&T Max Player works then. Webster and a couple of Euros/our 2010 first come really close to an S&T for a max player. Or just having 8-10M in room to offer a contract to a second-tier guy.

If there's one place we have depth, it's at the guard position. While I think Miller's our best PG, it doesn't make a ton of sense to keep him around as our "over-the-top" guy if we're a) not playing to his strengths, b) not making a deep playoff run, c) he's holding up guys like Bayless, Rudy and Webster from getting minutes and d) we can basically shift last year's cap space to the best free agent crop ever. Maybe while picking up some help at the 5 for a few months (letting LMA go back to more PF and healing up a bit) and a couple of late first round picks.

 

[RR7]

From what I've understood, they want Z bought out and back for them to be on the playoff roster. I think he has to wait 30 days from the trade to do that anyway.

Which would mean he wasn't helping us at all, and we weren't making this move to get better this year, we'd be hoping on a new cap space plan, all the while quite possibly dropping out of the playoff hunt, without our best PG. Lottery and a cap space plan? No thanks. As far as sign and trades go, the only logical one would be with Bosh, to replace Aldridge. I've mentioned before how it doesn't make sense for Tornot to replace Bosh with Aldridge. At the same time, a max deal for those guys, I believe, is a 6 year, 120 million dollar deal. Sorry, I don't want to pay Bosh that much money. He's better than Aldridge. I don't think he's 7 million dollars a year better than Aldridge, which is what that would amount to.

Otherwise, I don't know what other free agents you'd be targeting this offseason that would make punting on this season worthwhile. There isn't a top PG available. We'd need to replace Aldridge with whatever PF we'd bring in, or we'd be overpaying for role players that we already have. Who else out there is worth the money to bring in here?

 

[BrianFromWA]

To turn it around on you, I don't think Andre Miller is worth giving up the flexibility of going shopping this summer, or pulling off deals that OKC seems to during the year since they didn't spend cap space on a poor fit. To put another spin on it, I don't think Andre Miller is that much better for us in those minutes than Rudy, Bayless, Webster or Blake to justify not going after this opportunity. If Joel was not injured I'd have a totally different tune. But if we have the chance to shed over 20M in contracts for guys who aren't contributing significantly more than the young guys, even if it's a bit of a gamble...really?

So the worst-case scenario for you is our own lotto pick, a month or two of a guy who will let LMA play his natural position, and pretty significant cap space in the best free agent market ever? That's the WORST case?

If Bosh isn't worth 6M more a year to you than LMA, is Miller worth 4M more a year than Rudy and Bayless combined?

 

[RR7]

I think at this moment, Andre IS worth his contract. His understanding of the game, what is needed from the team at different times in agame, etc. is extremely valuable to us. And will be next season.

My issue is, we have a roster that doesn't necessarily need us to gamble. We have a very good roster nailed hard with injuries. Our lineup next season, with your trades, would be:

Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Cunningham
Oden/Pendergraph

And cap space. 8-10 million in cap space, let's say. Where do you target? Well, we need a PG. There aren't really that many availble in free agency that I know of, so hopefully we can find one in trade. And then a backup big. With 8-10 million. Or, we can try for a big splash, but you replace Aldridge with Bosh, and we still have those little holes.

If we did my trade:

Miller/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Butler(traded for something, same as that S&T if need be)Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Cunningham
Oden/Pendergraph/Haywood's bird rights.

And 5.8(MLE) in cap space.

Or without any trades, but keeping Miller

Miller/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Cunningham
Oden/Przybilla

and again, 5.8 or so in space, to get another vet big. Or a few smaller role players. I really like what Andre brings to the team, and would prefer going into next season with him starting as opposed to being forced to either start Miller, or sign someone to start.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Please do not trade Andre..we finally have a legit point guard and it has been a blessing. Blake and + ? for Big Z

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Please do not trade Andre..we finally have a legit point guard and it has been a blessing. Blake and + ? for Big Z

How about this?

(Alternatively, we could do this and then turn around and trade him immediately, but to whom?

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

I think they REALLY need a PG now - West out with a broken finger.

The Cavaliers’ backcourt woes worsened Friday when the team learned that West broke his left ring finger in Thursday night’s win over the Los Angeles Lakers. West’s injury to his shooting hand came in his first start since replacing Williams, who could miss up to six weeks for the Eastern Conference leaders after spraining his left shoulder in a game Tuesday against Toronto.

West will miss Saturday’s game against Oklahoma City, but the Cavs do not yet know how long he will be sidelined. Doctors need a few days for the swelling to go down before they can complete their evaluation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-cavaliers-westinjury&prov=ap&type=lgns

Perhaps something good can come of someone else having woes like ours.

Gramps...

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think they REALLY need a PG now - West out with a broken finger.



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-cavaliers-westinjury&prov=ap&type=lgns

Perhaps something good can come of someone else having woes like ours.

Gramps...

That roster literally has nobody I'd be interested in ... well, none but one.

 

[The Other Guys]

Miller for Lebron. We'll even be generous and throw in Mills.

 

[rocketeer]

They are going to be in deep shit when they start facing teams with real PG on them. You could tell they were having problems getting the offense intitiated last night. If I was an opposing coach, I would actually put my best defender on their guy trying to fill in at the point and see if you could stop them from getting the ball up the floor.

i don't think putting your best defender on lebron would really change much.