Chad Ford (Insider): Travis Outlaw "Probably Won't Be Re-Signed"

[BrianFromWA]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-02-18/blazers-rockets-join-vince-carter-trade-talks

VC for RLEC, Travis and Sergio.

I'm looking through threads, but I remember seeing/hearing something about Nets even dropping their demands to get rid of VC's contract for RLEC's. But I'm not sure.

some good responses in some of these threads
http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135336&highlight=vince+carter
go to pp. 5-6

 

[STOMP]

Well, how much is Travis going to look for next summer?

probably as much as possible... thats what I usually look for

He's going to be in a tough bind with all the other FAs coming out. If he thinks he's worth $7-8 mil, then no thanks. If he wants to re-sign for his current $3-4 mil, then I wouldn't have a problem keeping him around.

I bet he signs a contract averaging $ between the two extremes you listed... he seems an MLE level player to me.

STOMP

 

[RR7]

That article says Portland was OFFERING that for Vince, not the reverse.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Here was what I was looking for. It's from NetsDaily blog, but it talks about "previous reporting"---maybe I can find the link later:

Here’s what we know about some of the other proposed deals…not all of which has been published previously. Not being in the room, we can’t vouch for its accuracy, just that they were reported...(break)...

–Carter and two first round picks to Portland for Raef LaFrentz and Channing Frye at the deadline. A salary dump of the first magnitude. The Nets wouldn’t even have had to pay all of LaFrentz’s salary. Eighty percent of it was paid by insurance after he suffered a season-ending injury last season. Frye’s contract expired at season’s end. The Blazers’ owner, Paul Allen, reportedly vetoed it, thinking Carter’s contract was too much.

 

[RR7]

I just can't buy the 2 first round pick one. With every other deal that Rod Thorn has made, does using TWO first round picks to move Carter sounds reasonable? Unless I heard it first hand from Thorn or KP, there is no chance I can buy that deal, I'm sorry. How does the rumor go from us offering Raef, Outlaw and Sergio stretch to inserting Frye for Outlaw and Sergio, and getting two first rounders?

 

[Wheels]

Here was what I was looking for. It's from NetsDaily blog, but it talks about "previous reporting"---maybe I can find the link later:

STUPID KP!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wheels]

I just can't buy the 2 first round pick one. With every other deal that Rod Thorn has made, does using TWO first round picks to move Carter sounds reasonable? Unless I heard it first hand from Thorn or KP, there is no chance I can buy that deal, I'm sorry. How does the rumor go from us offering Raef, Outlaw and Sergio stretch to inserting Frye for Outlaw and Sergio, and getting two first rounders?

yeah I dont know about that one.

 

[PapaG]

Here was what I was looking for. It's from NetsDaily blog, but it talks about "previous reporting"---maybe I can find the link later:

Here’s what we know about some of the other proposed deals…not all of which has been published previously. Not being in the room, we can’t vouch for its accuracy, just that they were reported...(break)...

Yeah. That's the point. Nobody knows what was offered to any degree of certainty.

 

[PapaG]

And what specifically was that deal?

Do I have to put a <sarcasm> tag on my posts that reference rumored trades? I don't take any of the trade rumors at face value.

 

[jlprk]

- We didn't use Raef's trade value
- It seems we've let several people walk without getting any value back the past few years

...I can easily see the Blazers just letting him walk.

I thought TO had been "unofficially" on the market for much of the past year as the Blazers looked for possible trades/upgrades. I don't think it is a matter of his being on the market or not, I think it is more of a matter of KP probably valuing him too high and thus turning down potential trades.

I was going to write basically the same thing. Everyone was surprised at how little Pritchard got for Sergio. It's because Pritchard has shown no talent for trading, except the one day when he got Roy and Aldridge. Even that day was totally greased by Paul Allen's money (Pritchard took on LaFrentz' big 3 year contract and gave Ratliff's big 2 year contract).

So I can believe that he would give away Outlaw. He's been trying to trade him for some time and hasn't cultivated anything so far.

Bob Whitsitt knew how to make trades...

 

[jlprk]

1. Raef was just cap room. He holds no "justifiable" value in terms of filling a need.

2. And for the most part, there weren't many "free-agents" readily available during the offseason. And there is no real proof that KP sat on Raef.

3. For all we know, he may have been lighting up the phones before the trade deadline.

1. Irrelevant. LaFrentz had a lot of trade value.

2. There were several, well-publicized at the time, complete with quotes after the deadline from disappointed GMs who couldn't unload their players. (e.g. the New Jersey one said about Vince Carter to Portland, to the effect of, "We're not going to just give him away.")

3. He was, by his own admission. He said he had 1000 e-mails to Paul Allen during that time. But he overvalued his own players and expected other GMs to just cave in and give him something for nothing.

 

[jlprk]

In those instances we clearly valued cap space over what we could get for those players. We no longer have cap space, so TO's value only has to be greater than the savings in PA's pocket.

No, it's not at all clear, because there is a 2nd explanation--that Pritchard did not value cap space over what he could get for those players, and sought a trade (as he said he tried so hard to do), but played a last-second game with other GMs, expecting them to cave in, and they didn't. He tried to burn them (Pritch-slap) again, and he was the one humiliated this time. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Later, in the summer, he tried to use Allen's money to his advantage in a giant push for Hedo, and again, his chutzpah method failed. He needs to learn to negotiate in a reasonable way without all the bluster.

 

[jlprk]

Like who? The only rotation player I can think of is Sergio. Everyone else was either dealt for value (I'm sure KP thought he got a big upgrade trading Jarrett Jack for Bayless) or wasn't worth keeping around (Shavlick, Von Wafer, etc.)

Pritchard (supposedly a good trader) never trades anyone, so it's hard to come up with names during his tenure. Gramps was thinking of the last few years, as he said. The list in that period goes on and on. We didn't get much for Sheed, Shareef, Stoudamire, the whole team was given away. There were many given away in the moralistic purge between Whitsitt and Pritchard. There was Zach under Pritchard. That was totally enabled by Allen's money again, paying $30M. There was no GM skill there at all. Anyway, many have been given away in the last few years, just as Gramps said.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

After that wonderful bit of shot clock management, Chad Ford is starting to look pretty smart.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

He had one good draft. The jury is still out on the others.

Kevin Pritchard is overrated. He's a deer in the headlights with trades when it's not during the draft.

 

[jlprk]

I just can't buy the 2 first round pick one. With every other deal that Rod Thorn has made, does using TWO first round picks to move Carter sounds reasonable? Unless I heard it first hand from Thorn or KP, there is no chance I can buy that deal, I'm sorry. How does the rumor go from us offering Raef, Outlaw and Sergio stretch to inserting Frye for Outlaw and Sergio, and getting two first rounders?

You don't have to buy it. Everyone else does. Many reporters talked to the same GMs over and over at the time, and came up with the same reports of which trades were offered. To claim that one reporter invented a rumor to increase his ratings just isn't consistent with the fact that for each rumor, several reporters got the same information. Was it all a giant conspiracy to make it look like Pritchard made reasonable offers and was turned down? Or is everyone right and you're wrong?

I'm just tired of Pritchard deadheads saying that he didn't screw up in his failure to trade the LaFrentz contract at the last midseason trade deadline. The usual defense is, we don't really know what happened. Yes we do.

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

You don't have to buy it. Everyone else does. Many reporters talked to the same GMs over and over at the time, and came up with the same reports of which trades were offered. To claim that one reporter invented a rumor to increase his ratings just isn't consistent with the fact that for each rumor, several reporters got the same information. Was it all a giant conspiracy to make it look like Pritchard made reasonable offers and was turned down? Or is everyone right and you're wrong?

I'm just tired of Pritchard deadheads saying that he didn't screw up in his failure to trade the LaFrentz contract at the last midseason trade deadline. The usual defense is, we don't really know what happened. Yes we do.

Good post.

Sort of water under the bridge at this point. But thinking that we could give up draft picks (being a 50+ win team and not really needing more late 1st round developing guys anyway) and some bench players and Raef's contract to bring in Carter would have a different dynamic to this team today. We could still have Blake/Bayless/Rudy as the primary gy and have Carter/Webster/Batum at the SF. Would be an entirely different team.

 

[RR7]

Do I have to put a <sarcasm> tag on my posts that reference rumored trades? I don't take any of the trade rumors at face value.

Sorry, there are so many that lament rumored deals not going down without knowing the full details, it's always tough to know who is sarcastic or not. My apologies.

 

[RR7]

You don't have to buy it. Everyone else does. Many reporters talked to the same GMs over and over at the time, and came up with the same reports of which trades were offered. To claim that one reporter invented a rumor to increase his ratings just isn't consistent with the fact that for each rumor, several reporters got the same information. Was it all a giant conspiracy to make it look like Pritchard made reasonable offers and was turned down? Or is everyone right and you're wrong?

I'm just tired of Pritchard deadheads saying that he didn't screw up in his failure to trade the LaFrentz contract at the last midseason trade deadline. The usual defense is, we don't really know what happened. Yes we do.

Most reporters will take the rumor from one reporter, and run with it. Hell, Canzano created his own rumor, and within a day, it was all over the place, apparently all of those reporters had a source, but in reality, they were basically quoting someone else who said HE had a source. So if one person says yeah, KP wouldn't make a trade for VC if he was offered two first rounders with him, a reporter can run with, KP turns down VC AND 2 first rounders. But explain where the jump happens from the rumored offer by Portland of Outlaw, Sergio and Raef for VC to VC AND 2 first rounders. Thorn wanted an even worse deal? He turned down the initial offer so he could throw in picks? One of those deals looks like something that would be offered and turned down. One of those is ridiculous.