China declares war on ISIS after terrorists claim to have executed Chinese hostage

[barfo]

Natural gas and nuclear are clean energy.

Wind and solar is 2.1%.

Says you, but your link says

Since the year 2000 the country’s production of clean electricity jumped from a modest 6 percent to 25 percent last year in an effort to shift the German economy from nuclear power and fossil fuels towards wind and solar energy.

nuclear is on the wrong side of clean in that sentence.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Says you, but your link says



nuclear is on the wrong side of clean in that sentence.

barfo

And?

No, they are a different country and we CANNOT and MUST NOT ever consider whether another country might be doing something better. See, e.g. healthcare.
barfo

 

[barfo]

And?

And so your sources seem to be in disagreement. That one says 25% is clean energy, and that excludes nuclear and fossil fuels.

Not that it matters hugely - I'm just curious what the true numbers are.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

And so your sources seem to be in disagreement. That one says 25% is clean energy, and that excludes nuclear and fossil fuels.

Not that it matters hugely - I'm just curious what the true numbers are.

barfo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

Renewable energy is more present in the domestically produced energy, since Germany imports about two-thirds of its energy.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-expensive-gamble-on-renewable-energy-1409106602

The project is the linchpin of Germany's Energiewende, or energy revolution, a mammoth, trillion-euro plan to wean the country off nuclear and fossil fuels by midcentury and the top domestic priority of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

But many companies, economists and even Germany's neighbors worry that the enormous cost to replace a currently working system will undermine the country's industrial base and weigh on the entire European economy. Germany's second-quarter GDP decline of 0.6%, reported earlier this month, put a damper on overall euro-zone growth, leaving it flat for the quarter.

Average electricity prices for companies have jumped 60% over the past five years because of costs passed along as part of government subsidies of renewable energy producers. Prices are now more than double those in the U.S.

(A $trillion for a small country like Germany)

 

[barfo]

Ah, that explains it - domestic production vs. total use. Makes sense, thanks.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I want solar for my house. I don't know enough about it to speak accurately here but I read about the fight over it in Nevada. There are tons of businesses selling/leasing panels and we have something called net metering. I don't know how it is going to work out but it will be interesting.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I'm fine with that. Fuck the middle east. We've played there long enough. I would love to turn over our bases in Saudi Arabia to China. Have Russia and Iran on one side and China on the other in the coming cluster fuck Saudi civil war.

Just like playing the game of risk.

 

[blue32]

fuck china.

 

[stampedehero]

I'm fine with that. Fuck the middle east. We've played there long enough. I would love to turn over our bases in Saudi Arabia to China. Have Russia and Iran on one side and China on the other in the coming cluster fuck Saudi civil war.

We don't need their oil and we certainly cannot deal with corrupt splinter groups who blind kill for shallow purposes. However, too many US oil infrastructures and US oil transport systems are a reason why we are stuck there. The greedy financial bastards kill our guys. How pathetic.

 

[stampedehero]

There are several issues that could help significantly towards bringing the US much closer to energy independence that would be heavily disputed by you or any Libertarian. A much greater governmental investment in non-oil tech, major incentives towards conversion AND major penalties (in the way of significant tariffs) on crude oil. I understand fully that you will argue we already have those things and they are unsuccessful, I would say we have some limited success because we haven't gone nearly far enough and the pendulum will only full swing with enough force. But neither you nor I can win this argument because we don't have enough proof or available proof. I would point to Germany as evidence of progress and you would point to Germany as evidence that even with all that backing they still have gasoline cars.

So, there really isn't a debate to be had between us. A fundamental difference in how we view the world. I do truly understand your vantage point and I dismiss it, and I would assume you do the same for me. I guess the good thing is, neither of us have power of dictatorship. But we do have votes, and for that I'm happy.


As far as Pickens, I think he makes a lot of sense on a lot of topics, especially energy, but I also think he is blinded on this topic towards certain outcomes. Also, there has been a lot of progress already on this front since that plan was devised. We are currently very close to energy independence if you quantify that as US total energy out vs US total energy in. However, if you define it as US required crude oil intake, than we have a major major deficit. I think we are better to define the current problem not as energy independence and instead as oil dependence. or at least foreign oil dependance. Because the amount of natural gas, coal and even oil that we ship out is tremendous. But if you favor free markets than we will always be bringing in oil from the Middle East as long as we require 18B gallons/day. We need to start incentivizing conversion to natural gas, hybrids, fully electric, hydrogen and any crude oil reductive method. Gas should cost much much more at the pump and then the free market along with governmental subsidies (paid for in great part by those gas tariffs) will find the solution and get us off the Mid East teat.

Besides our advances we have electric battery and hydrogen as other resources. There is more but that was squashed by oil giants and greedy finanacial bastards.

 

[stampedehero]

Looks like with the French, Russians and Chinese all pissed at ISIS, we'll be "leading from behind" again. Having no influence in the Middle East is awesome.

Make that "less" influence