Cho Comments on Oden and Miller

[RR7]

I disagree. It'd be a stellar deal for Minnesota. We'd become, well, Minnesota.

 

[Minstrel]

Would you do this one? Aldridge for Love? That would be considered a stellar deal for both sides.

That's hardly a stellar deal. Even from non-Portland perspectives, the two players are considered roughly in the same tier. There's certainly no prevailing belief that Love is much better than Aldridge.

 

[PapaG]

Absolutely correct about Miller. The only one player that was consistent through the regular and post season has been Miller. Anyone that disagrees hasn't been watching Blazer basketball. I won't shit on him, but if there is some sort of stellar deal having to include Miller; I suspect Brass would pull the trigger.

I'm not sure who in this thread is "shitting" on Miller, other than perhaps Cho, if you consider his non-answer regarding Miller's future role on the Blazers "shtting" on Miller. Are you saying that Cho doesn't watch Blazer basketball?

Miller is the most tradable asset right now on the roster, outside of perhaps LMA. The easiest way to improve the team is to make trades that you believe makes your team better, and Miller, because of his contract, would likely be a part of any move that Cho thinks will improve the team, based on the team option, and that Miller would be an excellent secondary PG on an elite team.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not sure who in this thread is "shitting" on Miller, other than perhaps Cho. Are you saying that Cho doesn't watch Blazer basketball?

Where has Cho shit on Miller? I was just agreeing that no one has a right to Shit on Miller this season, since he's been the only consistent player in the regular and post season. Are you saying this is false?

 

[magnifier661]

That's hardly a stellar deal. Even from non-Portland perspectives, the two players are considered roughly in the same tier. There's certainly no prevailing belief that Love is much better than Aldridge.

Okay how about Zach for Aldridge?

 

[RR7]

That one isn't stellar either.

 

[magnifier661]

That one isn't stellar either.

LOL this is funny. I really love how all Blazer fans, including myself truly over values players on our team.

 

[RR7]

I don't see how it is over rating our players at all. He said you take a stellar deal. My assumption is that would mean you take a great deal. Depending, i guess, on how you want to define stellar. You seem to just take it as a blockbuster or a big deal. I think he meant stellar as a great deal. Trading Aldridge for Love or Zach isn't a stellar or great deal for Portland. No over rating of players there. The value could be argues about, which side wins, whatever. I'd say a "stellar' deal is Aldridge for Howard. Never going to happen. I am not saying his value IS that. I'm saying that's a stellar deal.

 

[PapaG]

LOL this is funny. I really love how all Blazer fans, including myself truly over values players on our team.

I wonder how other GMs value Andre Miller. Remember, he was passed over by every team in the NBA until the Blazers finally got to him, and the original idea was for Andre to be a back-up PG. Two years later, is he seen as a potential starting PG for a title-contending team? Or, is his contract more attractive, and he may not have his option picked up after a hypothetical trade?

 

[Natebishop3]

I wonder how other GMs value Andre Miller. Remember, he was passed over by every team in the NBA until the Blazers finally got to him, and the original idea was for Andre to be a back-up PG. Two years later, is he seen as a potential starting PG for a title-contending team? Or, is his contract more attractive, and he may not have his option picked up after a hypothetical trade?

The only person who thought Dre was a back-up point guard was Nate McMillan, and apparently you.

 

[PapaG]

The only person who thought Dre was a back-up point guard was Nate McMillan, and apparently you.

I thought that was discussed in the conversation between Pritchard, Nate, and Miller in Las Vegas.

Also, why did no elite team immediately snatch up Miller to put them over the top, if his value was so high around the league? $7 million seems like a small amount to pay for a difference-maker at PG, yet Miller was a FA until late July of 2009.

 

[RR7]

There is a salary cap. You do know how that works, no?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I wonder how other GMs value Andre Miller. Remember, he was passed over by every team in the NBA until the Blazers finally got to him, and the original idea was for Andre to be a back-up PG. Two years later, is he seen as a potential starting PG for a title-contending team? Or, is his contract more attractive, and he may not have his option picked up after a hypothetical trade?

He was the Blazers second option. Remember, Hedo Turkgolu was the first option. We had to spend that valuable cap space on something, it was either him or nothing.

 

[PapaG]

There is a salary cap. You do know how that works, no?

Not much difference between Miller's contract and the MLE, though. Plus, Philly didn't even offer him.

 

[PapaG]

He was the Blazers second option. Remember, Hedo Turkgolu was the first option. We had to spend that valuable cap space on something, it was either him or nothing.

Paul Millsap was the 2nd option, and Utah matched the Toxic Offer from Hell (which is in part how Portland got Matthews, but I digress).

 

[Natebishop3]

I thought that was discussed in the conversation between Pritchard, Nate, and Miller in Las Vegas.

Also, why did no elite team immediately snatch up Miller to put them over the top, if his value was so high around the league? $7 million seems like a small amount to pay for a difference-maker at PG, yet Miller was a FA until late July of 2009.

Who else that had cap space needed a point guard and was willing to pay $7 million for him?

 

[PapaG]

Who else that had cap space needed a point guard and was willing to pay $7 million for him?

The MLE would have worked, though. Who had an MLE available to them?

 

[Blaze01]

Extending the Q.O is a no-brainer, but that doesn't guarantee that he will be in Portland beyond the 2011-12 season. If G.O. accepts the Q.O., then he will be an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2012 (at least under the current CBA).

I think if POR offers a QO then he becomes a Restricted FA next year, any team that makes an offer to Oden (and he accepts) POR would have the option to match. If Oden does not accept any other teams offer (including POR) and plays out the next year on his deal, then he becomes an UFA, free to sign anywhere,

So the ball is in Oden's court, once POR offers the QO, which I cannot see a reason why they would not.

 

[magnifier661]

The MLE would have worked, though. Who had an MLE available to them?

Wow you truly hate Miller don't you? There is a poster in O-live that harps so much on Roy, that he'd rather the team lose with Roy leading the helm, than want a Blazer win. Is that you, but with Miller?

 

[RR7]

The MLE would have worked, though. Who had an MLE available to them?

Why would you assume the MLE would work when he got more than the MLE?

A lot of other teams already either have/had better PGs, or PGs locked into a lot of money.
Looking at all of the contenders from the previous season, Boston had Rondo, Cleveland had Mo Williams, Orlando had Jameer Nelson, Denver had Billups, Utah had Deron, N.O. had Paul, Lakers, he doesn't fit in the triangle well. Then you have to remember that a lot of teams had their eyes on the following year's free agency. So even if they were interested in him, a team like Miami, Chicago, etc. would have passed on him.

 

[RR7]

I think if POR offers a QO then he becomes a Restricted FA next year, any team that makes an offer to Oden (and he accepts) POR would have the option to match. If Oden does not accept any other teams offer (including POR) and plays out the next year on his deal, then he becomes an UFA, free to sign anywhere,

So the ball is in Oden's court, once POR offers the QO, which I cannot see a reason why they would not.

He is currently a restricted free agent. We have until June 30th to offer him a QO of 8.8 million. He can reject it, but he is still a RFA. Meaning he has the ability to look for another deal, and then we have the right to match that deal. If he does not accept the QO, he needs to find another deal, as that is the last year of his contract. There is no other year to play out.

His choices are to accept the QO, and still hunt around for a long term deal from another team and/or negotiate one with us. Or, reject it, and find another offer from a team for us to match. Or accept it, play out the season, and THEN become UFA.

 

[PapaG]

Wow you truly hate Miller don't you? There is a poster in O-live that harps so much on Roy, that he'd rather the team lose with Roy leading the helm, than want a Blazer win. Is that you, but with Miller?

I don't hate anyone. I'm just wondering what Miller's value is around the NBA. 2 years ago, the answer was not very high, and I'm wondering if his contract is more attractive than his value as a player. What gives you the impression that I don't want the Blazers to win, regardless of who is playing?

 

[Boob-No-More]

A couple of points...

Every other team in the league did not pass on Andre Miller. That's utter nonsense. You make it sound like he was placed on waivers and nobody picked him up. He was a FA and very few teams had the cap space to sign him. And, as others have pointed out, many other teams already had big bucks tied up in their current starting PGs. As was also pointed out, some of the few teams (Knicks, Bulls, Heat, etc.) that had cap space in 2009 elected not to use it for fear of missing out on the 2010 free agent bonanza. The Blazers got a break. They picked up a player at a position of need and got him with a favorable contract (in both amount and length, with the 3rd year team option a nice bonus).

Even if Greg Oden does become an unrestricted free agent the Blazers will still hold his Bird rights. So, while they technically won't have the option of macthing all other offers, unless something drastically changes in the new CBA, they will be able to offer him a longer contract and considerably more money than any other team. Oden would have to REALLY want out of Portland to leave that kind of money on the table. This also assumes Oden can stay healthy enough, long enough to convince at least one other team to throw a ton of money at him. In which case, the Blazers will offer him 1.2 tons of money.

As far as the new CBA goes, I don't see the owners giving up Bird rights. To do so would cause the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. It would be a situation similar to Major League Baseball where the small market teams develop all the young talent and then all the big names eventually end up with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers and Angels. Allowing Bird rights helps keep the small market teams from becoming a farm system for the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Bulls and Knicks. I just can't see any situation where the majority of owners agree to abolish Bird rights.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

I don't hate anyone. I'm just wondering what Miller's value is around the NBA. 2 years ago, the answer was not very high, and I'm wondering if his contract is more attractive than his value as a player. What gives you the impression that I don't want the Blazers to win, regardless of who is playing?

No, asked if you are just like the poster in the O-live forum that obviously would rather the Blazers lose when Roy was on the floor, than accept Roy was somehow a part of the win. And the main reason why I question you're "feelings on Miller", is I never once read anything positive in your posts regarding miller. In fact, it kinda seems you go out of your way to make him look like our losses or lack of success has more to do with Miller being a Blazer, than the team actually playing like shit.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, just seems that way to me.

 

[PapaG]

Why would you assume the MLE would work when he got more than the MLE?
A lot of other teams already either have/had better PGs, or PGs locked into a lot of money.
Looking at all of the contenders from the previous season, Boston had Rondo, Cleveland had Mo Williams, Orlando had Jameer Nelson, Denver had Billups, Utah had Deron, N.O. had Paul, Lakers, he doesn't fit in the triangle well. Then you have to remember that a lot of teams had their eyes on the following year's free agency. So even if they were interested in him, a team like Miami, Chicago, etc. would have passed on him.

He signed a 3-year/$21 million contract. The MLE averaged ~$6.6 million/season in the 2009 free agent period. No team offered him a MLE contract, and Philly only offered him a 1-year deal.

Somebody could have at least offered Miller that contract, and nobody did. So, he ended up in Portland as Option C, and two first-round exits later, the Blazers again need a PG of the future (and present). As for teams passing on him, that's the point, isn't it?

 

[PapaG]

A couple of points...

Every other team in the league did not pass on Andre Miller. That's utter nonsense. You make it sound like he was placed on waivers and nobody picked him up. He was a FA and very few teams had the cap space to sign him. And, as others have pointed out, many other teams already had big bucks tied up in their current starting PGs. As was also pointed out, some of the few teams (Knicks, Bulls, Heat, etc.) that had cap space in 2009 elected not to use it for fear of missing out on the 2010 free agent bonanza. The Blazers got a break. They picked up a player at a position of need and got him with a favorable contract (in both amount and length, with the 3rd year team option a nice bonus).

Even if Greg Oden does become an unrestricted free agent the Blazers will still hold his Bird rights. So, while they technically won't have the option of macthing all other offers, unless something drastically changes in the new CBA, they will be able to offer him a longer contract and considerably more money than any other team. Oden would have to REALLY want out of Portland to leave that kind of money on the table. This also assumes Oden can stay healthy enough, long enough to convince at least one other team to throw a ton of money at him. In which case, the Blazers will offer him 1.2 tons of money.

As far as the new CBA goes, I don't see the owners giving up Bird rights. To do so would cause the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. It would be a situation similar to Major League Baseball where the small market teams develop all the young talent and then all the big names eventually end up with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers and Angels. Allowing Bird rights helps keep the small market teams from becoming a farm system for the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Bulls and Knicks. I just can't see any situation where the majority of owners agree to abolish Bird rights.

BNM

Bird rights really only matter on the 6th year for a UFA, and if the Blazers are going to come close to maxing out Oden for 6 years, Cho needs to have his head examined. Talk about a risk ... wow.

 

[PapaG]

No, asked if you are just like the poster in the O-live forum that obviously would rather the Blazers lose when Roy was on the floor, than accept Roy was somehow a part of the win. And the main reason why I question you're "feelings on Miller", is I never once read anything positive in your posts regarding miller. In fact, it kinda seems you go out of your way to make him look like our losses or lack of success has more to do with Miller being a Blazer, than the team actually playing like shit.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, just seems that way to me.

Thanks for sharing. You can find plenty of examples of me giving praise to Miller this season. I won't apologize for wanting to upgrade at PG, though, and think Miller's best value for the long-term success of the franchise may be as part of a trade (if the right trade to upgrade the position presents itself).

To answer your stupid question, no, I don't root against the Blazers because Andre Miller plays for them. That you would have to ask that question tells me you aren't very observant.

 

[magnifier661]

Thanks for sharing. You can find plenty of examples of me giving praise to Miller this season. I won't apologize for wanting to upgrade at PG, though, and think Miller's best value for the long-term success of the franchise may be as part of a trade (if the right trade to upgrade the position presents itself).

To answer your stupid question, no, I don't root against the Blazers because Andre Miller plays for them. That you would have to ask that question tells me you aren't very observant.

Cool... Neat story!

 

[Natebishop3]

No, asked if you are just like the poster in the O-live forum that obviously would rather the Blazers lose when Roy was on the floor, than accept Roy was somehow a part of the win. And the main reason why I question you're "feelings on Miller", is I never once read anything positive in your posts regarding miller. In fact, it kinda seems you go out of your way to make him look like our losses or lack of success has more to do with Miller being a Blazer, than the team actually playing like shit.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, just seems that way to me.

You have no idea. You should have seen PapaG in his heyday back when the Miller/Roy drama was in full effect. There was also the whole "wow Miller is so lazy.. why isn't he in Portland working out with the team yet?" episode during the summer of 09.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Bird rights really only matter on the 6th year for a UFA, and if the Blazers are going to come close to maxing out Oden for 6 years, Cho needs to have his head examined.

Wrong. It also impacts maximum annual raises. 10.5% with Bird rights, 8% without. So not only can a team with Bird rights offer a 6th season (the most valuable of the contract), but can also pay more for seasons 2 - 5.

The point being, if Greg does stay healthly enough to get a big offer from another team, no matter how big that offer is, the Blazers will have the option, even if he's a UFA, to offer him substantially more - should they chose to do so.

BNM