Chris Haynes: Chad in panic mode (Re: Batum)

[Fez Hammersticks]

Apparently their latest offer is still not acceptable; Batum's agent to counteroffer this coming Monday.

LINK​

 

[Blazinaway]

Apparently their latest offer is still not acceptable; Batum's agent to counteroffer this coming Monday.

LINK​

Unless I read that incorrectly there has been only that one low ball offer from the Blazers

and the part about "panic mode" sound like classic media BS to sell the story

 

[Boise Blazer]

Somehow it would not surprise me if ended up losing both Wallace and Batum when this is all said and done.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Panic mode = overpaying Nic. This is gonna be so bad for the franchise

 

[Blazinaway]

Panic mode = overpaying Nic. This is gonna be so bad for the franchise

is 9-10 mile per a huge overpay vs 7-8 per year? What I am asking is I think if we overpay it will likely be in the 2 mil per range over 4 years - is that really that big of a deal?

 

[Draco]

Somehow it would not surprise me if ended up losing both Wallace and Batum when this is all said and done.

Good. We should be prepared to lose them if the alternative is overpaying. We can't be so scared that they may leave we rush to give them fat contracts. There is no chance we can compete for titles with a team built on overpaid average starting forwards. Either we get them on reasonable contracts so we have the flexability to add other starters or we let them walk and try to use the cap space efficiently on other players.

 

[illmatic99]

I don't see the "panic."

 

[Blazinaway]

Good. We should be prepared to lose them if the alternative is overpaying. We can't be so scared that they may leave we rush to give them fat contracts. There is no chance we can compete for titles with a team built on overpaid average starting forwards. Either we get them on reasonable contracts so we have the flexability to add other starters or we let them walk and try to use the cap space efficiently on other players.

what do U think reasonable for Nic? - I think about 8 mil per is fair

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

He's not asking for the max but he is worth more than the MLE.

They have to get this done.

Wallace will be 30 and his type don't age gracefully.

 

[Draco]

is 9-10 mile per a huge overpay vs 7-8 per year? What I am asking is I think if we overpay it will likely be in the 2 mil per range over 4 years - is that really that big of a deal?

Thats how we ended up with Theo Ratliff, Zach Randolph and Darius Miles on huge overpaid deals.

Darius was younger then Batum is now and accomplished a hell of a lot more in the NBA. It's critical we don't overpay borderline starters if we want to have any chance of becoming a legit contender.

 

[THE HCP]

and his type don't age gracefully.

The Blacks?

 

[THE HCP]

I actually clicked on this link to see if this new bee used the term "panic mode". I was gonna' crack on him for just stirring up shit like Quick.

 

[Wheels]

lol

 

[Draco]

what do U think reasonable for Nic? - I think about 8 mil per is fair

Perhaps he gets that this summer, but I would not offer that to him now, I wouldn't offer much more then a full MLE deal right now.

If he is offered 8 mil per as a RFA we probably bite the bullet and match. But theres little incentive for us to lose that flexability now. Batum will have a lower cap hold, so we can sign a free agent, add a Rashard Lewis type player off amnesty, THEN match an offer for Batum.

I want to see Batum's play the rest of the season and in the playoffs, then we will have a much better idea of where he is at. Look at how fast a guy like Devin Harris wen't from an all-star to a crappy backup, NBA players performance is very unpredictable and fluidly in flux. Guys get injured, young guys don't improve as much as we hope, the team gets a stud at the same position in a trade, a lot can chance by the off-season. We only have 2 guys on the roster who've played here more then one full season here. There is tons of turnover on an NBA roster. We will have better information on Batum and the overall direction of this roster at the end of the season and should only lock him up long-term now if the team gets a good discount.

 

[illmatic99]

They have to get this done.

I don't think there is much to lose by waiting until the summer.

Perhaps he gets that this summer, but I would not offer that to him now, I wouldn't offer much more then a full MLE deal right now.

Yup. The team holds all the leverage now. No point in making the final offer now.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The Blacks?

Of course not; you know black don't crack.

His type meaning high-energy guy who relies heavily on his athletic ability.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I could go either way with Nic as far as an extension goes versus free agency. On the one hand he's still young, he's versatile, he gets along with his teammates, he's a solid citizen, but I would like to see some more sustained high level production. Him becoming a RFA isn't the end of the world because the Blazers retain the right to match,

But damn this could backfire too. Somebody could really try to overpay him which would make matching just as painful as not.

If they can get it done for no more than 8.5 million a year I'd be pretty happy with that.

 

[Draco]

I don't think there is much to lose by waiting until the summer.

Yup. The team holds all the leverage now. No point in making the final offer now.

Remember how up in arms half the fan base was when Roy wasn't immediately offered a fully guaranteed max deal with a player opt out? Turns out he never played a healthy game under that contract.

The amnesty saved our franchise big time in that instance, but it won't be available again any time soon. Many fans don't understand the caution that needs to take place when agreeing to long term deals. Lots of fans just see a player on the roster they like and think the team should do whatever they can to make the player happy. The Blazers have been better about that in recent years, and I hope they are cautious as well with Nic.

 

[Boise Blazer]

I dont want them both and sure dont want to overpay both but I have no problems paying a little above for Batum since he is younger and very much fits the mold of that glue guy that most teams need. And we really dont have the best idea of what Batum can really do if for no other reason than he isnt as focal a point of the offense as he could be.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Remember how up in arms half the fan base was when Roy wasn't immediately offered a fully guaranteed max deal with a player opt out? Turns out he never played a healthy game under that contract.

The amnesty saved our franchise big time in that instance, but it won't be available again any time soon. Many fans don't understand the caution that needs to take place when agreeing to long term deals. Lots of fans just see a player on the roster they like and think the team should do whatever they can to make the player happy. The Blazers have been better about that in recent years, and I hope they are cautious as well with Nic.

There is a flex exception in the new CBA which allows you teams to mitigate the pain of a contract signed in the new CBA. Regardless, Roy had a myriad of medical red flags (some publicly known, others not so much) going into his extension negotiations that Nic doesn't possess. It's not exactly the same situation.

 

[Boise Blazer]

There is a flex exception in the new CBA which allows you teams to mitigate the pain of a contract signed in the new CBA. Regardless, Roy had a myriad of medical red flags (some publicly known, others not so much) going into his extension negotiations that Nic doesn't possess. It's not exactly the same situation.

And we arent talking about maxing out Nico. If paying a guy say $10 mil vs. $8 mil or $9 mil vs $7 is what people think will hinder this franchise in the long run then we have WAAAAAY bigger problems then how to handle Batum. And the stupid thing is that if we dont pay to keep Batum guess what we are probably going to do? .... Go out and overpay an older player to do the same thing.

 

[Further]

I just want the Blazers to offer a contract that is an honest good faith attempt to sign Batum. If they just try to lowball because they have the leverage, then Batum could sour on the organization. That does not mean the Blazers need to offer a big contract, or one that Batum will accept at the moment. Just one that is likely to be close to what he would be offered this summer as a RFA. Hopefully a deal is cemented, but if not, no biggie, as long as the team and Batum are on good terms.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I just want the Blazers to offer a contract that is an honest good faith attempt to sign Batum. If they just try to lowball because they have the leverage, then Batum could sour on the organization. That does not mean the Blazers need to offer a big contract, or one that Batum will accept at the moment. Just one that is likely to be close to what he would be offered this summer as a RFA. Hopefully a deal is cemented, but if not, no biggie, as long as the team and Batum are on good terms.

Keep one thing in the back of your mind. During a negotiation, there are bound to be leaks from a player's agent if the don't hold much leverage. I'm not saying it's false that the Blazers low-balled him, but the fact that this tidbit from a negotiation made it into the public domain should alert you that somebody could be planting a seed amongst the fans hoping for a hue and cry against the team for being skinflints.

Chances are they reach a figure both sides are happy with by the 25th and all of this chatter is going to be quickly forgotten.

 

[Blazinaway]

I'd offer 4 yrs at 32 mil, I think that's fair and in line with what others have received at his level

 

[Boise Blazer]

I'd offer 4 yrs at 32 mil, I think that's fair and in line with what others have received at his level

Do you think he better, worse or about the same as Aaron Afflalo? I only asked because he signed a 5 year $43 contract or roughly $8.6 per.

For anyone interested: http://bkref.com/tiny/hsWxh

 

[Nikolokolus]

Do you think he better, worse or about the same as Aaron Afflalo? I only asked because he signed a 5 year $43 contract or roughly $8.6 per.

Afflalo had a really great year last year which was well timed. Is Nic better or worse? I don't know. I guess I'd say Nic's ceiling could be higher, but to date his production has been lower.

 

[Further]

Keep one thing in the back of your mind. During a negotiation, there are bound to be leaks from a player's agent if the don't hold much leverage. I'm not saying it's false that the Blazers low-balled him, but the fact that this tidbit from a negotiation made it into the public domain should alert you that somebody could be planting a seed amongst the fans hoping for a hue and cry against the team for being skinflints.

Chances are they reach a figure both sides are happy with by the 25th and all of this chatter is going to be quickly forgotten.

I actually don't believe that the last offer was a low ball. Perhaps earlier ones were, chances are if Batums side is now presenting a counter offer, it likely indicates that the two sides are at least somewhat within a realistic spread of each other. A common tactic in negotiating (in business, I don't know about bball specifically) is make the first offer extremely weak, watch the reaction, and then use that information to offer more realistic offers that are at the low end of what the opposing side would accept. It is common for those preliminary offers to be ignored to demonstrate that the offer is laughable and to not divulge negotiation strategy or information.

On this third offer, Batums side responded, meaning that the offer has likely risen to at least an honest attempt.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Afflalo had a really great year last year which was well timed. Is Nic better or worse? I don't know. I guess I'd say Nic's ceiling could be higher, but to date his production has been lower.

Nic is also 3 years younger. Whether anyone wants to or not the team that signs him is going to have to pay for that potential.

 

[Draco]

And we arent talking about maxing out Nico. If paying a guy say $10 mil vs. $8 mil or $9 mil vs $7 is what people think will hinder this franchise in the long run then we have WAAAAAY bigger problems then how to handle Batum. And the stupid thing is that if we dont pay to keep Batum guess what we are probably going to do? .... Go out and overpay an older player to do the same thing.

This is not the first and it won't be the last contract the Blazers negotiate. So yes in a vacuum you could say it’s only $2 million so who cares, but if you take that $2 million for the 4 years of his contract its $8 million and with Batum being one of seven key rotational players that becomes a difference of $56 million. That is $140 million over the next decade. We are going to have many more contract negotiations in the future; an attitude of overpaying players will contribute to this team being less competitive.

The team in recent times has negotiated good contracts with Martell, Outlaw, Blake, Andre Miller, LaMarcus, Wesley. So I hope they again continue to make prudent decisions on getting good free agents but not at a price that prevents the team from acquiring other assets.

 

[Boise Blazer]

This is not the first and it won't be the last contract the Blazers negotiate. So yes in a vacuum you could say it’s only $2 million so who cares, but if you take that $2 million for the 4 years of his contract its $8 million and with Batum being one of seven key rotational players that becomes a difference of $56 million. That is $140 million over the next decade. We are going to have many more contract negotiations in the future; an attitude of overpaying players will contribute to this team being less competitive.

The team in recent times has negotiated good contracts with Martell, Outlaw, Blake, Andre Miller, LaMarcus, Wesley. So I hope they again continue to make prudent decisions on getting good free agents but not at a price that prevents the team from acquiring other assets.

I agree that makes sense if you were looking at the big and you were doing that for all of the rotational players - but you're not. What other up and coming players do we have that show the potential Batum may have? You make a valid point about the mindset but you describe the worst case scenario if we did that for every player.