Chuck Still thinks Blake, Love > LA

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Some of you are acting like because Love or Griffin don't play good defense that they shouldn't be in the AS game. There is few PF's in the league that guard the position well. Randolph, Nowitzki, West, Boozer and Lee have all made AS games being absolutely lousy defenders. Even Amare has made several AS games being a horrible defender.

Love is about to break the streak for most consecutive games with a double-double. He is the first player to record a 30/30 game in 28 years and the first person to average 20/15 since Moses Malone. Shitty team, or not. These are things no player has done, or atleast hasn't done in almost 30 years. How can you overlook that? There's been plenty of players, even on shitty teams that could have done that. They haven't though.

Like it, or not. But, sports are driven by stats.
 
how many rebounds would love average if he was playing with camby for most of the season
 
Love absolutely deserves to make the all star team by his stats alone. So does Griffin.

But the league and its coaches sorta established a precedence during ZBo's last season here when he was averaging 23/14 on decent %s and didn't get in over Okur who was clearly the inferior player.
 
MAS RipCity said:
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Chuck is bat **** crazy if he thinks Love should be in over Aldridge. Does he watch head-to-head matchups?
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When they have been matched up - except for containing them on rebounds - LaMarcus has made both Blake Griffin and Kevin Love look BAD. Very ordinary.

On offense, neither can do a thing to slow LaMarcus down. On defense, LaMarcus takes them out of their half-court offense completely.

Will the coaches consider that? Did they even see the games? I dunno?
 
Masbee said:
When they have been matched up - except for containing them on rebounds - LaMarcus has made both Blake Griffin and Kevin Love look BAD. Very ordinary.

On offense, neither can do a thing to slow LaMarcus down. On defense, LaMarcus takes them out of their half-court offense completely.

Will the coaches consider that? Did they even see the games? I dunno?
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I'll bet they watch far fewer than we would initially think; these are crazy busy people with just enough time to probably look at their next opponent on film and with the rapid succession of games are probably mostly concerned with what little practice time they can get their own team and install whatever game-plan they can for the next match.
 
Masbee said:
When they have been matched up - except for containing them on rebounds - LaMarcus has made both Blake Griffin and Kevin Love look BAD. Very ordinary.

On offense, neither can do a thing to slow LaMarcus down. On defense, LaMarcus takes them out of their half-court offense completely.

Will the coaches consider that? Did they even see the games? I dunno?
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Are AS selections based off one-on-one matchups?
 
PapaG said:
All that shows me is that he is a stat monster at this point. He doesn't have to defend (much like Kevin Love), so he just gets to roam around on defense and use his explosiveness to get rebounds. He's a very good garbage man right now, perhaps the greatest in NBA history at such a young age.
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Griffin is exciting for a rookie. You have to give him that. How many rookies played good defense - Duncan? Robinson? Not that many.

But, it sure is annoying that Griffin somehow is allowed to travel several times a game when he makes his move (what happened to a player having to "establish" himself in the NBA before they get away with that); and Griffin gets away with fouling by going Over the Back multiple times each game and no call.

When did this shit start? Remember Shaq the rookie fouling out of lots of games early on?
 
MickZagger said:
Are AS selections based off one-on-one matchups?
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I don't know what the coaches use as criteria? Do you?

Some say the unwritten rules are each winning team gets to have their best player represented.

Some say another unwritten rule is that players - most especially young players that will have future chances - on BAD teams are disqualified, no matter how good.
 
yuyuza1 said:
But the league and its coaches sorta established a precedence during ZBo's last season here when he was averaging 23/14 on decent %s and didn't get in over Okur who was clearly the inferior player.
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Zach never came close to averaging 14 RPG as a Blazer. His best was 10.5 RPG. The season you are referring to (2006-07) he was averaging 24.0/10.2 on 0.463 FG% (pretty shitty for a power forward) at the All-Star break.

BNM
 
Masbee said:
Griffin is exciting for a rookie. You have to give him that. How many rookies played good defense - Duncan? Robinson? Not that many.

But, it sure is annoying that Griffin somehow is allowed to travel several times a game when he makes his move (what happened to a player having to "establish" himself in the NBA before they get away with that); and Griffin gets away with fouling by going Over the Back multiple times each game and no call.

When did this shit start? Remember Shaq the rookie fouling out of lots of games early on?
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Griffin "established himself" right here:

[video=youtube;BEc8g8o6GTE]

For real that's all it takes sometimes.
 
MickZagger said:
How many rebounds would Camby average if he were playing next to Love for most of the season?
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What's the relevance? crowTrobot was clearly, IMO, making a point regarding Love and Aldridge. Aldridge plays alongside Camby (and has previously played alongside rebounding monsters like Przybilla and Oden). Love doesn't. While Love is surely a better rebounding talent than Aldridge, there's no doubt that the difference between their rebounding numbers is exacerbated by who they're playing alongside.
 
Minstrel said:
What's the relevance? crowTrobot was clearly, IMO, making a point regarding Love and Aldridge. Aldridge plays alongside Camby (and has previously played alongside rebounding monsters like Przybilla and Oden). Love doesn't. While Love is surely a better rebounding talent than Aldridge, there's no doubt that the difference between their rebounding numbers is exacerbated by who they're playing alongside.
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My point was that when 2 great rebounders are on the same team its obvious that both players rebounding numbers will go down.
 
MickZagger said:
My point was that when 2 great rebounders are on the same team its obvious that both players rebounding numbers will go down.
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The point was about Love and Aldridge. If Aldridge had been playing in place of Love in Minnesota, he'd likely have more rebounds because he wouldn't have Camby or Przybilla alongside him. If Love had been playing in Portland in place of Aldridge, his rebounding numbers would be lower due to Camby (and Przybilla/Oden in the past).

Sure, Camby's numbers would go down, too. But Aldridge is the subject matter in this thread.
 
Minstrel said:
The point was about Love and Aldridge. If Aldridge had been playing in place of Love in Minnesota, he'd likely have more rebounds because he wouldn't have Camby or Przybilla alongside him. If Love had been playing in Portland in place of Aldridge, his rebounding numbers would be lower due to Camby (and Przybilla/Oden in the past).

Sure, Camby's numbers would go down, too. But Aldridge is the subject matter in this thread.
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Well than I don't understand you're argument, because both you and I know that Love is a better rebounder.
 
MickZagger said:
Well than I don't understand you're argument, because both you and I know that Love is a better rebounder.
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I already said in my previous post that Love is undoubtedly a better rebounding talent than Aldridge. But I think it's obvious that the gap is exaggerated by the fact that Aldridge plays alongside a great rebounder and Love doesn't.

It's a fairly straight-forward point. Don't worry, I'm not impugning Love's rebounding talent or saying Aldridge is just as good a rebounder...rest easy! I know you're very protective of him. :) But the rebounding gap between the two would assuredly be smaller if Aldridge had the same lack of competition for rebounds, from his teammates, that Love did.
 
Minstrel said:
I already said in my previous post that Love is undoubtedly a better rebounding talent than Aldridge. But I think it's obvious that the gap is exaggerated by the fact that Aldridge plays alongside a great rebounder and Love doesn't.

It's a fairly straight-forward point. Don't worry, I'm not impugning Love's rebounding talent or saying Aldridge is just as good a rebounder...rest easy! I know you're very protective of him. :) But the rebounding gap between the two would assuredly be smaller if Aldridge had the same lack of competition for rebounds, from his teammates, that Love did.
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As would Rodman on pretty much every team he played. Good rebounders hog rebounds, its not a secret.

You think I'm arguing that Aldridge wouldn't get more rebounds if he played for Minnesota? Thats not the case, in fact, its almost strawman-ish. Aldridge would get more rebounds than the 8 he averages for sure. But, he wouldn't be averaging almost 16 a game for certain.

I'm not very 'protective of him'. People have been ribbing the guy for the past couple days in these All-Star debates and I haven't really chimed in much at all. Some posters use the word 'garbage man' like its supposed to have some kind of negative connotation.

A 22 year old averaging 21/16. So much to hate on.
 
The Wolves play at the quickest pace in the NBA. That's more shot attempts and more chances to get rebounds. It's no coincidence Love's 30 rebound game came against the Knicks. The Knicks put up 92 shots and the Wolves put up 101 and neither team shot above 44%.
 
RoyToy said:
The Wolves play at the quickest pace in the NBA. That's more shot attempts and more chances to get rebounds. It's no coincidence Love's 30 rebound game came against the Knicks. The Knicks put up 92 shots and the Wolves put up 101 and neither team shot above 44%.
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lol, go retrace any 30 rebound game in the history of the league and there is going to be an unreal pace to the game and the teams are going to shoot a low percentage.

Kind of an unusual slight to a historic performance.
 
MickZagger said:
You think I'm arguing that Aldridge wouldn't get more rebounds if he played for Minnesota? Thats not the case, in fact, its almost strawman-ish. Aldridge would get more rebounds than the 8 he averages for sure. But, he wouldn't be averaging almost 16 a game for certain.
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So we agree. Love is the better rebounder, but not to the extent of the statistical gap between the two.

And I think Love is a tremendous player. If he could play solid or better defense, he could even be a franchise type of big man.
 
MickZagger said:
lol, go retrace any 30 rebound game in the history of the league and there is going to be an unreal pace to the game and the teams are going to shoot a low percentage.

Kind of an unusual slight to a historic performance.
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I guess if you feel like it's a slight you can take it that way. I just posted facts. More shot attempts = more rebound opportunities.
 
Love has a fantastic TRB% - no matter who you put next to him - he is going to vacuum rebounds. LMA might go up from the 13.7% he has to 15-16 - but he will not get to the 20%+ that Love gets. - it is just not his game. Where LMA has the advantage is that he is a much better defender - and you can actually use him as a #1 option on offense - something you can not do with Love in the NBA level.

At the end of the day, for me, it comes down to - is it an "All Star" game or "All utility man" game. For the 1st - LMA over Love any day of the week. For the 2nd - Kevin Love is your man. A player any team would love to have on it's roster, but not one you could ever build around. You can build around LMA.
 
RoyToy said:
I guess if you feel like it's a slight you can take it that way. I just posted facts. More shot attempts = more rebound opportunities.
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lol okay. It wasn't a slight.

Go back and look up games where players had 30 rebounds. I'm sure teams milked the shot clock and hit a high percentage of their shots.

Hell, I'm sure most of them went to Overtime.
 
Aldridge's versatility is what really sets him apart from Love. He's capable of doing so much more on offense and defense. Love is still a good player but I think you'd have to be crazy to want Love over this version of Aldridge.
 
andalusian said:
You can build around LMA.
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Yes, these past 15, or so games you can say that. One of the things that Aldridge retractors (myself included) have said is that he's a good 2nd or 3rd option. Sometimes people even said 4th option.

I don't know who sparked a fire under his ass, but he's playing like a man possessed. I don't think it all has to do with Roy not being around either. He had plenty of opportunities in the past when Roy was injured to do this.

Buck Williams? Can we credit this to Buck? His mom having cancer?

I don't know.
 
I think it's a combination of all of the above and his off-season work to bulk up and work with Bayno. He has the body, the maturity, the work, the team needs it. It finally works for him and that's great.
 
MickZagger said:
Yes, these past 15, or so games you can say that. One of the things that Aldridge retractors (myself included) have said is that he's a good 2nd or 3rd option. Sometimes people even said 4th option.

I don't know who sparked a fire under his ass, but he's playing like a man possessed. I don't think it all has to do with Roy not being around either. He had plenty of opportunities in the past when Roy was injured to do this.

Buck Williams? Can we credit this to Buck? His mom having cancer?

I don't know.
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Clearly fans like you taking a dump on him daily while starting on 50-win teams the past two years is what inspired him to be the player he is now. You're the true heroes in this story of redemption. Take a bow!
 
I may be wrong but didn't it also take tell the fifth season for dirk and kg to both break out and become franchise players? I'm on my phone so I can't look up stats but aldridge was avg close to what kg angd dirk were there first few seasons
 
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