CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out (1 Viewer)

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e_blazer said:
The jaded view about CJ around here is clouding the pure fact that with Dame down, he's playing at an All-Star level at PG. You can bitch all you want about his poor fit with Dame, his defense, the losses, but it's pretty hard to deny that his play has been stellar. The last 5 games since the All-Star break, CJ has averaged 31.8 ppg and 9 assists. Kyrie Irving in those same 5 games has averaged 30 ppg and 5 assists. Kemba Walker's last 5 games show averages of 19.6 ppg and 4.2 assists. Kyle Lowry is at 15.4 ppg and 5.4 apg. Trae Young, the Easter Conference All-Star starter at PG, is at 27.4 ppg and 12 assists. So, CJ's play as a starting PG would put him in the mix not only to make the ASG in the East, but perhaps to start. Once in awhile, it's okay just to say "nice job", even if you would prefer to see CJ traded.
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I'm not disputing the fact that he's playing well. I'm disputing the fact that he's a point guard.
 
Surprised no one has brought up contract.

My opinion of CJ has not changed at all this season. He's a very fine basketball player, but...........
for 28, 30, 31, 33, and $36 mil for this and the next 4 seasons, I want better than very fine.
His high salary has destroyed our flexibility, losing Skal is just one of many examples.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm not disputing the fact that he's playing well. I'm disputing the fact that he's a point guard.
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I think that’s a distinction without much point in today’s NBA. The role of the point guard has evolved to be much more scoring oriented than in the past. Nine assists says he distributes well enough. Considering that he’s primarily been at SG throughout his career, you’d have to think he can get better at running a team with more experience.
 
e_blazer said:
I think that’s a distinction without much point in today’s NBA. The role of the point guard has evolved to be much more scoring oriented than in the past. Nine assists says he distributes well enough. Considering that he’s primarily been at SG throughout his career, you’d have to think he can get better at running a team with more experience.
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I think Westbrook has proven that assists can be a hollow stat.
 
Credit where credit is due. One of my biggest issues with CJ is how inefficient he has been while chucking up so many shots. Tonight he was very good. Wish it weren't such a rare level of efficiency.
 
I'll admit it: I'm really not sure what 'hollow stats' means, and I'm skeptical of how you could gauge them
 
Point guard is a shoot first position on a lot of teams nowadays. CJ is good enough getting his own shots that I believe he'd definitely be a good both scoring wise and passing wise if he had the ball in his hands as much as he would in that situation.
 
wizenheimer said:
but as somebody noticed above, CJ's assists seem to be 1st Q and 1st half heavy. His focus on playmaking wanes as the game goes on. That's especially true if the Blazers are trailing. That's when CJ becomes more MeJ and his vision locks in on the hoop.
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So he passes more at the beginning of the game and looks to score later if they get behind? Sounds good to me.

But I do agree....he is not a full-time PG.
 
I hope he ramps up his trade value. Gt2 is a better and much less expensive sg to pair with dame.
 
beast crnjo said:
I hope he ramps up his trade value. Gt2 is a better and much less expensive sg to pair with dame.
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Since Trent has moved into the starting line-up:
14.5 points (avg of 7.8 for the season)
.458 FG%
.448 3Pt%

He has certainly improved his efficiency. What doesn't show up is his defense. That is a big difference at the SG since he has taken over.
 
TBpup said:
Since Trent has moved into the starting line-up:
14.5 points (avg of 7.8 for the season)
.458 FG%
.448 3Pt%

He has certainly improved his efficiency. What doesn't show up is his defense. That is a big difference at the SG since he has taken over.
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For all the praise Trent gets and the shit CJ gets, I'm surprised people don't call GT out for being such a black hole. Dude just has a one track mind and constantly misses the extra pass. Over the last few weeks after the all star break, his numbers are startling. Only 21 passes (not assists) per game in 34 mpg. He has the worst AST to Pass % ratio on the whole team over this stretch.

CJ, is at 40 passes per game over the season in 36 mpg (58 per game after the AS break).

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1
 
illmatic99 said:
For all the praise Trent gets and the shit CJ gets, I'm surprised people don't call GT out for being such a black hole. Dude just has a one track mind and constantly misses the extra pass. Over the last few weeks after the all star break, his numbers are startling. Only 21 passes (not assists) per game in 34 mpg. He has the worst AST to Pass % ratio on the whole team over this stretch.

CJ, is at 40 passes per game over the season in 36 mpg (58 per game after the AS break).

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1
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Look at Gary's total touches, seconds of possession per touch, dribbles per touch, and points per touch in comparison to CJ's, and then tell me if you're still surprised.

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH&dir=1
 
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illmatic99 said:
For all the praise Trent gets and the shit CJ gets, I'm surprised people don't call GT out for being such a black hole. Dude just has a one track mind and constantly misses the extra pass. Over the last few weeks after the all star break, his numbers are startling. Only 21 passes (not assists) per game in 34 mpg. He has the worst AST to Pass % ratio on the whole team over this stretch.

CJ, is at 40 passes per game over the season in 36 mpg (58 per game after the AS break).

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1
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2nd year player barely 21 years old versus seasoned veteran's 7th year in the league. Not quite an apples to apples comparison.
 
So McCollum has a Lillard like game and Trent has a McCollum like game and posters praise Trent and very little for McCollum. Great game from both last night.

tenor.gif
 
^^^^Not even close. Trent doesn't spend NEAR the time dribbling that CJ does and is 3x the defender.
 
CupWizier said:
It's been better, but still many complaints. Just look at the post above yours for an example.
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The post above mine is disputing the notion that Trent had a "McCollum like" game, as though CJ plays alongside Dame the same way Trent has played alongside CJ (which simply isn't true). That's completely different than the commentary about how CJ has played in Dame's absence, which has been excellent and praiseworthy.

Compartmentalize the two. Nearly all complaints about CJ are about how he plays at shooting guard, not how he tends to play when starting at point guard.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The post above mine is disputing the notion that Trent had a "McCollum like" game, as though CJ plays alongside Dame the same way Trent has played alongside CJ (which simply isn't true). That's completely different than the commentary about how CJ has played in Dame's absence, which has been excellent and praiseworthy.

Compartmentalize the two. Nearly all complaints about CJ are about how he plays at shooting guard, not how he tends to play when starting at point guard.
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It was another dig at McCollum. Plain and simple.
 
illmatic99 said:
For all the praise Trent gets and the shit CJ gets, I'm surprised people don't call GT out for being such a black hole. Dude just has a one track mind and constantly misses the extra pass. Over the last few weeks after the all star break, his numbers are startling. Only 21 passes (not assists) per game in 34 mpg. He has the worst AST to Pass % ratio on the whole team over this stretch.

CJ, is at 40 passes per game over the season in 36 mpg (58 per game after the AS break).

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1
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For me, I look at usage rates too and if you have a low AST% your usage rate better be low too (which Trent's is usually).

The thing is if we traded CJ we'd be missing someone who can do what he does. Trent can't (at least not now) just come in and play point guard when Dame is down or on the bench.

I think CJ would be better if the bench was better. If Whiteside or Nurk was in the 2nd unit he'd likely get more assists.

When Dame is healthy and since they're going for the playoffs I think Simons should start to be squeezed out of the rotation and just have Dame, CJ, and Trent play the guard positions.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Look at Gary's total touches, seconds of possession per touch, dribbles per touch, and points per touch in comparison to CJ's, and then tell me if you're still surprised.

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH&dir=1
Click to expand...

I think people are also pleasantly surprised that Trent isn’t nearly as much of a gunner (or nearly as bad on D) as they thought he was when he was drafted which helps him be viewed more favorably, imo.

Also, I think there is some “the best player on the team is the backup QB” syndrome here...
 
JoshuaHall said:
I think people are also pleasantly surprised that Trent isn’t nearly as much of a gunner (or nearly as bad on D) as they thought he was when he was drafted which helps him be viewed more favorably, imo.

Also, I think there is some “the best player on the team is the backup QB” syndrome here...
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For me I think Trent is a good 3 and D guy, probably never going to be more than a role player, but it's good to see a second-rounder turn into someone who looks deserving of minutes. Not really claiming he's "better" than CJ, he might be a better fit in the right situation I have no idea, but I kind of like guys who got drafted late and work really hard to make it.
 
hoopsjock said:
For me, I look at usage rates too and if you have a low AST% your usage rate better be low too (which Trent's is usually).

The thing is if we traded CJ we'd be missing someone who can do what he does. Trent can't (at least not now) just come in and play point guard when Dame is down or on the bench.

I think CJ would be better if the bench was better. If Whiteside or Nurk was in the 2nd unit he'd likely get more assists.

When Dame is healthy and since they're going for the playoffs I think Simons should start to be squeezed out of the rotation and just have Dame, CJ, and Trent play the guard positions.
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As we were discussing yesterday, CJ has historically been substandard as a second-unit point guard, primarily (I believe) because he's had a poor lineup to play alongside. At this moment, CJ's starting at PG alongside 4 guys who should, ostensibly, be backups to their positions, and doing so very well. This just further reinforces the notion that this team would be incredibly formidable with a Dame/CJ/Hood/Collins/Nurk starting lineup and a Trent/Ariza/Melo/Whiteside (+CJ) bench.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
As we were discussing yesterday, CJ has historically been substandard as a second-unit point guard, primarily (I believe) because he's had a poor lineup to play alongside. At this moment, CJ's starting at PG alongside 4 guys who should, ostensibly, be backups to their positions, and doing so very well. This just further reinforces the notion that this team would be incredibly formidable with a Dame/CJ/Hood/Collins/Nurk starting lineup and a Trent/Ariza/Melo/Whiteside (+CJ) bench.
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Our bench production has been abysmall this year and fortunately much of it has to do with having end of the bench players becoming role players. Like you say, add in Hood, Nurkic and Collins into the mix makes us a much deeper team and more productive.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
As we were discussing yesterday, CJ has historically been substandard as a second-unit point guard, primarily (I believe) because he's had a poor lineup to play alongside. At this moment, CJ's starting at PG alongside 4 guys who should, ostensibly, be backups to their positions, and doing so very well. This just further reinforces the notion that this team would be incredibly formidable with a Dame/CJ/Hood/Collins/Nurk starting lineup and a Trent/Ariza/Melo/Whiteside (+CJ) bench.
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Yeah, unfortunately Hood's health is the only thing preventing that possible lineup later this season and Melo/Whiteside's free agency could prevent next year (along with Hood's health still).

I'm still not convinced that Whiteside and Melo would accept those roles though.
 
hoopsjock said:
Yeah, unfortunately Hood's health is the only thing preventing that possible lineup later this season
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Yep, best we can hope for this year is Dame/Zach/Nurk coming back (the latter two in a reserve role), and either Little or Gabriel filling that backup 3 role behind Ariza.

I do think that if Zach comes back healthy he should start ahead of Melo.
 
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