CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out

[mook]

If I did my math right over the last 5 games he's averaging 32ppg, 9 assists, 48%Fg, 38%3fg.

Some of the best numbers of his career, while losing 4 of 5 games.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

If I did my math right over the last 5 games he's averaging 32ppg, 9 assists, 48%Fg, 38%3fg.

Some of the best numbers of his career, while losing 4 of 5 games.

To me, that is the most important stat. Of course he's going to get is points and some assists (he's getting more than I expected) but I do not see him leading the team, inspiring the team. I see him sitting back and taking lots of shots and playing pretty lackadaisical defense.

If anything he strikes me as the good playground pickup ball leader, he'll get his stats and help his mates to a degree, but doesn't really inspire to win.

I would hope that this would up his trade value and that Olshey will trade him but my fear is this justifies (in Olshey's mind) giving him that big contract and keeping him around.

 

[Mediocre Man]

That 20% winning % is the most important stat

 

[Serbian]

He is also shooting about 26 times per game. Nothing more i want is to trade his ass. I have never disliked a player more than CJ. He is actually preventing Dame greatness. Trade CJ

 

[TBpup]

Increase that trade value... as much as possible.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If I did my math right over the last 5 games he's averaging 32ppg, 9 assists, 48%Fg, 38%3fg.

Some of the best numbers of his career, while losing 4 of 5 games.

This needed to happen BEFORE the trade deadline

 

[HailBlazers]

That 20% winning % is the most important stat

Yeah because his supporting cast is so solid

 

[illmatic99]

Have you guys seen some the lineups we've thrown out there?

Surprised we even won one.

 

[TBpup]

Have you guys seen some the lineups we've thrown out there?

Surprised we even won one.

Still better than what Atlanta threw out there....and they crushed us.

 

[e_blazer]

That 20% winning % is the most important stat

Sure, because the rest of the decimated roster has zero impact on the results.

The Blazers are losing because their defense is crap. Opponent after opponent runs up huge success from the three point line. The way the Blazers get lost in their rotations makes it pretty much like practice shots from the three point line for the opponents. CJ is a part of that, but hardly the only culprit.

 

[TBpup]

Sure, because the rest of the decimated roster has zero impact on the results.

The Blazers are losing because their defense is crap. Opponent after opponent runs up huge success from the three point line. The way the Blazers get lost in their rotations makes it pretty much like practice shots from the three point line for the opponents. CJ is a part of that, but hardly the only culprit.

Outside of Nurkic and his impact on the game, that's pretty much the way it's been for years now.

 

[julius]

It's a small sample size, but I think if you put CJ on a team with 2 players who shouldn't be playing in the NBA, 2-3 players who are about a year or more away from being productive players, only 1 player over 6'10", an aging former superstar who plays pretty much 0 defense, an aging so-so SF who is inconsistent, and a 2nd year guard to join in the back court, I'm sure that team would suck too.

 

[e_blazer]

Outside of Nurkic and his impact on the game, that's pretty much the way it's been for years now.

Pretty much, although Harkless and Aminu were better defensively than what we’re getting out of Carmelo and Ariza. The Blazers winning is predicated on out-scoring the opposition. Without Nurk, Collins, and Hood they’re too thin and reliant on young players. Without Dame, it’s hopeless.

 

[James lamphear]

The difference between Dame and CJ. When CJ was out this year and last part of last we still continue to win and the other way around its not so good. My reason one is a leader and the other is not. CJ going get his shots up ever game this won't change it doesn't matter if we win or loose. Dame finds ways to win by impacting the game by making money plays and CJ sometimes does but majority times doesn't. I put CJ and Whiteside in the same catogery. Both can put the stats but don't make a lot of impact plays that's change the game around. Yes Whiteside get a lot of blocks in games but I also see go right by him for dunks and layins at that means he only challenging the the shot at the rim 10 percent of the time. This means they not scared to go in there with Whiteside. Now with Nurk and Zach I see them challenge if they are in the area I also see players change there minds when they get that far about shooting with Nurk and Zach. Some will say look at the stats but sometimes you need throw stats out of the window and watch how players impact the game in certain ways.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yeah because his supporting cast is so solid

Yeah, because if Dame was playing with the same supporting cast and no CJ would you expect to lose 4 of 5?

 

[Minstrel]

CJ is an excellent primary offensive talent, but much less effective without the ball in his hands. While to some extent that's true of other players, CJ isn't so good that other great players (like, say, Lillard) should play off him dominating the ball. He's not a James Harden or Chris Paul level talent. While their games are very different, to me CJ is a bit like a Russell Westbrook--great individual offensive talent but not very good playing alongside better players and not good enough to be the best player on a championship team (I think that would be a minority opinion, but I'm less high on Westbrook than most people).

If either CJ or Lillard could learn to be as dangerous a threat off the ball as Steph Curry can be, they could work as a duo offensively (I still think defensive issues would sink them, though), but I don't see that happening and, given that, Lillard is the one who should dominate the ball. He's a championship-level central hub, McCollum isn't.

If Portland can find a team that would pay superstar or even star prices for CJ based on what he's doing without Lillard, they should jump on that immediately. But I suspect other teams have the same evaluation of CJ that I do, which would limit his value in trade.

 

[tlongII]

CJ’s playing with trash. Of course they’re going to lose.

 

[Scalma]

Reminds me of Westbrook. Puts up numbers but it doesn’t feel like the offense gets in a rhythm. The assists are misleading because he’s got the ball in his hands literally every possession. Good thing it’s not his full time job.

 

[Natebishop3]

He has done this before. CJ does fine when he's the lead guy. But it further enforces in my mind that they're better apart than together.

 

[CupWizier]

The difference between Dame and CJ. When CJ was out this year and last part of last we still continue to win and the other way around its not so good. My reason one is a leader and the other is not. CJ going get his shots up ever game this won't change it doesn't matter if we win or loose. Dame finds ways to win by impacting the game by making money plays and CJ sometimes does but majority times doesn't. I put CJ and Whiteside in the same catogery. Both can put the stats but don't make a lot of impact plays that's change the game around. Yes Whiteside get a lot of blocks in games but I also see go right by him for dunks and layins at that means he only challenging the the shot at the rim 10 percent of the time. This means they not scared to go in there with Whiteside. Now with Nurk and Zach I see them challenge if they are in the area I also see players change there minds when they get that far about shooting with Nurk and Zach. Some will say look at the stats but sometimes you need throw stats out of the window and watch how players impact the game in certain ways.

And that would be false as McCollum has missed 4 games this year and the team is 1-3 with the only win being against the GSW by 5 at home in overtime and no Draymond Green.

 

[CupWizier]

and yet another thread turns into a McCollum bashing. Such wonderful fans we have in this foirum.

 

[Chris Craig]

CJ is no Damian Lillard. He doesn't make his team better. His stats are empty just like Whitesides. Both should be gone.

Also, what is left of this roster shows Olshey's hand. He puts his faith in young players who might have potential some long day from now in the future when Dame's door has closed and lottery picks from years ago that didn't pan out...hoping they will pan out here and now. His methods bring limited success and still haven't really paid off.

 

[oldmangrouch]

And that would be false as McCollum has missed 4 games this year and the team is 1-3 with the only win being against the GSW by 5 at home in overtime and no Draymond Green.

A sincere, serious question: how do you rate the value of CJ compared to Dame?

 

[CupWizier]

A sincere, serious question: how do you rate the value of CJ compared to Dame?

Dame is obviously the best player on the team. McCollum is the second best this year.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yeah because his supporting cast is so solid

Lillards is barely better.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sure, because the rest of the decimated roster has zero impact on the results.

The Blazers are losing because their defense is crap. Opponent after opponent runs up huge success from the three point line. The way the Blazers get lost in their rotations makes it pretty much like practice shots from the three point line for the opponents. CJ is a part of that, but hardly the only culprit.

He's arguably the worst defender on the team, and Melo plays for us

 

[Strenuus]

and yet another thread turns into a McCollum bashing. Such wonderful fans we have in this foirum.

Mario hezonja sucks because he does. Am I a bad fan for saying that? Or is it only when its CJ/stotts/olshey?

You'll miss the whole point of my post by saying "this has nothing to do with Mario", but you can try.

 

[James lamphear]

And that would be false as McCollum has missed 4 games this year and the team is 1-3 with the only win being against the GSW by 5 at home in overtime and no Draymond Green.

I also said end last year to when CJ and Nurk was out.

 

[CupWizier]

I also said end last year to when CJ and Nurk was out.

Last year was a completely different team as we also added Hood and Kanter to a roster that had played lots of games together. You don't see a difference between rosters and playing time this year and last year?

 

[wizenheimer]

Portland is 1-3 without CJ this season. They are 1-6 without Dame

near as I can count, since 2015-16, Portland is 13-6 with Dame leading without CJ; and they are 11-14 with CJ leading without Dame

for some context, here are CJ's FGA's and usage rate this year without Dame:

22 - 27.8%
29 - 35.0%
22 - 31.2%
30 - 37.4%
24 - 36.1%
27 - 37.2%
26 - 31.4%

so then, CJ is averaging 26 FGA's a game when Dame is out (25.7) for 31.1 points/game. Harden leads the NBA in FGA's a game at 23 for a 34 point average. Bradley Beal is 3rd at 22.7 FGA for 30.3 points. Trae Young is 4th at 20.8 FGA for 29.8 points. Dame averages 20.4 FGA for 29.5 points

comparing CJ without dame put another way

points/shot:

Harden - 1.52
Dame - 1.45
Young - 1.43
Beal - 1.33
CJ - 1.21

normalizing those 4 other players to their scoring average if they were getting 25.7 shots a game:

Harden - 39.1
Dame - 37.3
Young - 36.8
Beal - 34.2
CJ - 31.1

some other players scoring average at 25.7 FGA's:

Doncic - 36.0
Kawhi - 34.4
Zach Lavine - 32.8
Tatum - 32.3
Donovan Mitchell - 32.1
Siakam - 32.2
Westbrook - 31.1
CJ - 31.1

there would be a lot of guys on that 2nd list above CJ because of the 261 players who have played 800 minutes or more, CJ ranks 195th in TS% which tracks the points/shot number

Now, CJ gets credit for ramping up his usage and shot attempts and actually increasing his efficiency a little; he's increased his points/shot mark without Dame from 1.14 to 1.21. If you extrapolated his TS% increasing at same rate his points.shot has, his TS% would rank 138th instead of 195th. That's notable. But his high average points/game is because he's dominating the ball at a league leading rate and using lots of possessions for his own offense.