CJ must go!

[EGame]

Funny, just about everyone was high on CJ and Leonard come our playoff loss last season and not even 3 games in and now everyone says they suck and need to get out of here. I know I'm fickle, but I'm definitely not the only one.

 

[Tunchi]

What a lot of people are saying about putting CJ on the bench is ultimately where he will end up. However he is fortunate right now to have the opportunity to start, as that could very well end when Henderson comes back. However should he continue to start this season we could have a very interesting case of potential MIP season into a future SOY season. What if he does slide to the bench this season, and continue to be as efficient. He could be in the race for MIP & SOY. Has that happened before in the same season? Has it happened before in the same season for somebody so early in their career? (I think it is unlikely this happens because of all the factors, but it is technically possible.)

Anyways I can't believe it only took 2 bad CJ games for a "we need to get rid of CJ" thread to pop up. Some of ya'll need to just sit back and watch him when hes on fire, dude is incredibly smooth. Go ahead re-watch that pelicans game. You even saw it against Memphis for crying out loud. When this guy is in the zone he's putting you in position to win the ball game, and it doesn't matter what the stage is. Just ask Plumlee about that 30 CJ dropped when his #15 Mountain Hawks bounced Plumelee's #2 Blue Devils.

He's had huge lights out games like that his whole career, and has shown he can do it on one of the bigger stages in the league.

You should see mo williams in the zone.. It doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day it's either good mo or bad mo.. Just like good Cj or bad Cj

 

[Strenuus]

You should see mo williams in the zone.. It doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day it's either good mo or bad mo.. Just like good Cj or bad Cj

unfortunately, we dont have much scoring otherwise. At least when we had mo, we had lma, dame... and others. lol.

 

[dviss1]

That is on Stotts not CJ. We have been doing that for years (by design apparently - and if not then Stotts should be canned as his team is tuning him out).

No we haven't. Save the Texas Turncoat switching on to the ball handler (which I fucking hate), we've always gone over the top of screens to funnel the ball handler into a contested mid range shot. It has never been the design to go underneath the screen.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Are you really doubting that? He can't prove it anymore than you can disprove it, but he has a lot more to go off of since what we know of CJ would be an argument for his perspective.

I haven't seen much evidence OF it. Having great offensive skills is not a sign of great "basketball IQ". Having BBIQ means understanding where everybody should be at all times, understanding what the other team is doing before they do it and so on. Now, maybe CJ has it, but I think he'd be a better defender if he had such a high BBIQ.

But, as I said, there are two kinds of basketball intelligence: theoretical and practical. You can have one without necessarily having the other. Supposedly Meyers Leonard is kind of a savant at remembering plays and knowing the other team's plays. But he certainly doesn't show great practical BBIQ.

 

[KingSpeed]

Sometimes he is going to have a big offensive game, but when he doesn't, he brings almost NOTHING else to the table. When the Blazer backcourt gets outscored by 22 points (and you know the opponent shot a higher percentage) they have NO CHANCE to win right now. Aminu could be that 3rd score but until they get something out of their bigs beside an occasional dunk, they will struggle on many nights. No worries, most knew this was a work in progress. There is a big learning curve for many of these players who haven't seen a lot of court time before.

He's averaging 5 rebounds 3 assist 1 steal and 1 turnover

 

[MARIS61]

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/damian-and-cj-both-in-the-top-10.291473/

 

[Orion Bailey]

Funny, just about everyone was high on CJ and Leonard come our playoff loss last season and not even 3 games in and now everyone says they suck and need to get out of here. I know I'm fickle, but I'm definitely not the only one.

Not everyone. Don't lump us all together.

I haven't seen much evidence OF it. Having great offensive skills is not a sign of great "basketball IQ". Having BBIQ means understanding where everybody should be at all times, understanding what the other team is doing before they do it and so on. Now, maybe CJ has it, but I think he'd be a better defender if he had such a high BBIQ.

But, as I said, there are two kinds of basketball intelligence: theoretical and practical. You can have one without necessarily having the other. Supposedly Meyers Leonard is kind of a savant at remembering plays and knowing the other team's plays. But he certainly doesn't show great practical BBIQ.

I am going on by what his fellow players and coaches say. I think they know more than us.

 

[TBpup]

He's averaging 5 rebounds 3 assist 1 steal and 1 turnover

3 apg if you round up. Also, I pointed out how many wide open guys on the break he had missed and how one of his bad passes got Aminu flipped onto his head. He doesn't get many turnovers because he doesn't pass the ball that often. I completely acknowledge CJ's ability to be instant offense at times but for his huge breakout game in the playoffs last year, few people balance that out with the 4 ppg game he averaged in the first two games. You can't do one without the other. His size also hurts because he is not a very good defender and since Dame is already in that category, it makes for an issue is that is the long-term lineup.

Some things he does well to very well....but balance isn't unreasonable.

 

[illmatic99]

In 5 yrs as a Blazer, the most Wes ever averaged was 2.5 assists.

Sure he didn't handle the ball as much as CJ is a scorer. Let him play his game. He's not gonna go out and create like Blake did.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He's not gonna go out and create like Blake did.

Let's just let it sink in how depressing that sentence is.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Let's just let it sink in how depressing that sentence is.

Blake is fun to bash on (I have done it a time or two) but that man is loyal to a fault and it isn't like he couldn't play. He had 14 assists in a quarter once.

 

[blue9]

I don't mean now. Now we're bad and it's in our interest to be bad. But if we ever plan to get anywhere, we have to give up on the idea of playing Damian and CJ together.

Yup. I've always viewed CJ as a great trade chip to get us a player that will improve the roster. Depending on what pick we end up with this season I could see CJ being packaged with the pick in order to move into the Top 3.

 

[illmatic99]

Let's just let it sink in how depressing that sentence is.

I hate Blakey as much as the next guy, but his primarily role was to create for others and he was pretty good at it. He put up nearly 4 assists a game last year in limited minutes.

 

[Strenuus]

Yup. I've always viewed CJ as a great trade chip to get us a player that will improve the roster. Depending on what pick we end up with this season I could see CJ being packaged with the pick in order to move into the Top 3.

I def. wouldn't mind trading CJ. He's great offense every few games or so, but that's what makes him a great trade chip.

 

[BBert]

Hopefully Henderson fits in well enough that CJ can be our sixth man. We ain't winning that trophy without a quality sixth man who can create and hit threes. Someone like CJ.

 

[B-Roy]

Man, you guys flip flop on a game by game basis.

After that first game it was "CJ has earned the starting spot."

Now after the Phoenix games it's, "CJ would be a good backup for Henderson."

Can we at least wait until 82 games are over?

 

[blue9]

For the record, I've ALWAYS thought CJ should be a 6th man, not a starter. Unless we trade Dame for a tall, defensive, pass-first PG.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Man, you guys flip flop on a game by game basis.

Hint: this is often because it's not all the same guys.

 

[Draco]

Fair point.

Besides - what is the alternative? A 3 legged backcourt of Dame and Henderson isn't really a solution.

Yeah I hear a lot of suggestions to start player A and sit player B. Then someone else says start player X & Y but not with A.

It reminds me of a kid I saw in Ecuador. He had a huge pile of change and counts it all up. Then he counts the quarters, dimes, nickels separately expecting a different amount.

 

[BBert]

Man, you guys flip flop on a game by game basis.

After that first game it was "CJ has earned the starting spot."

Now after the Phoenix games it's, "CJ would be a good backup for Henderson."

Can we at least wait until 82 games are over?

I'd wait 20 games to evaluate, for sure.

 

[Draco]

I would deal CJ/Vonleh/Meyers for Paul George if they would do it.

I would trade Plumlee for Anthony Davis and Crabbe for Steph Curry too.

 

[Draco]

And he said as much in a recent interview. He has the highest BBIQ on the team and I think has a work ethic similar to Dames. He hasn't leveled off at all.
We need scoring off the bench though, so I really think long term we need him there. At least until we acquire more/different players.

Right now Dame or CJ is always on the court when bench players come in. Whats advantage would having CJ on the bench add to the bench?

 

[BBert]

I would trade Plumlee for Anthony Davis and Crabbe for Steph Curry too.

Might have to throw in cash considerations. It's Paul Allen's money, so what do I care?

 

[Draco]

Overall, Cj is close to an ok defender (this season, he'll become ok). Just bc a guy gets steals (a lot of times though, this does go hand & hand w/ being a good defender i.e. Jimmy Butler, etc.) doesn't necessarily mean he's a good defender (i.e. Monta Ellis), it can mean he gambles/gets in passing lanes @ the right time (definitely has to do w/ BBIQ & instincts); Tony Allen is an excellent defender & u can bet if in a game even if he didn't get a steal, he's still out there w/ crazy-good D TWICE in yesterdays game, Cj had VERY cringe-worthy "defense" on Morris, Cj COULD've closed out harder BUT instead, he lazily literally just stood there a few feet away from him & let him make 2 uncontested 3's Cj CAN score & I agree he does have some great BBIQ BUT... defensively, I AM worried about him; I think his top end no matter how hard he works on D will b ok @ best; therefore, I agree w/ many others that he should come off the bench & take it to opposing benches; Cj serves us best off the bench, we need to package some guys/assets together to land 1 exceptional sg/sf (mostly playing sg), that guy ideally would b Paul George (I'd need time to think about who else would also work well).

Ideally we'd get Anthony Davis too. I don't want just Paul George. Maybe Wiggins could come off our bench.

 

[Draco]

Hopefully Henderson fits in well enough that CJ can be our sixth man. We ain't winning that trophy without a quality sixth man who can create and hit threes. Someone like CJ.

We aren't winning a trophy without significantly more talent. Hendo isn't making a difference one way or the other with bringing in talent.

If CJ blows up he could become an Eric Gordon level of player. Someone who can become a borderline allstar in his own right or packaged in a trade for a stud allstar. CJ isn't going to gain trade value on the bench.

This year is about seeing if any of our potential players become more valuable assets; either long term with Dame or in a trade.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The bad defense of McCollum and Lillard really only exists on PnR's... And I blame that on Stotts scheme.

That's sort of like saying the drummer in a rock band is only bad at keeping time and staying in a rhythm.

The PnR is the bread-and-butter of most NBA offenses, and this is about ability/talent (or lack thereof) Stotts isn't running an exotic defense.

 

[BBert]

We aren't winning a trophy without significantly more talent.

That too.