CJ on the WojPod

[Tince]

reported by whom? Not all reports are the same. If a Woj or someone connected to the team reported it I might.

Without knowing if this is a sencere question (I'm assuming you've seen these reports because you're typically well aware of what's going on), I will answer it as if it is:

Chris Haynes & Henry Abbott were two people who reported Dame was considering requesting a trade. It appears you do not buy those reports, which I think it totally valid stance because Dame himself said he was not asking for a trade. However, to be consistent, Dame also said he wants to contend for a title and only making a coaching change would not be enough to make us a contender.

He said both all things in the same press conference. I think it's only fair if we're taking him at his word for one of those things (that we want to agree with), that we take him at his word for the others. No?

 

[Tince]

Well I think with all of our first rounders intact and CJ and our young players (Ant, Nas and DJJ) we should be able to get something that makes Dame excited about being here. I don't think there's any reason to trade him now, just change the roster in a major way so he gives us more time.

There has been nothing to suggest the league values CJ as much as Olshey or that there is any real demand for Ant, Nas, or DJJ. I believe this is why many people here are concerned with Dame wanting us to bring in another legit player to help contend.

Olshey has built as roster, most of which is either overpaid, has injury issues, or just don't have enough talent that other teams would want to give up a great player in return. Dame and RoCo might be the exceptions here (I'm excluding Powell since we can't trade him), but as I've been saying for a while now, this roster has been poorly constructed for a variety of reasons, in particular when it comes to on court makeup (size and versitility) and roster flexibilty in the trade market.

 

[Mediocre Man]

on Chauncey:

"He's a very blunt person. He's very honest, we've already had a lot of conversations about what it will take on the defensive end. I've spoken to him about holding me and Dame accountable and that he's got to challenge us. We'll always be top 3 top 5 on offense but the only way for us to improve is to get dedicated on defensive end."

So basically he’s saying that even though he is a professional, and supposedly wants to win, he only played hard on one end of the floor

 

[Scalma]

Dame also said he wants to contend for a title and only making a coaching change would not be enough to make us a contender.

He didn’t say that though. He even brought up teams that have made jumps with only a coaching turnover. But that part of his quote has been ignored, almost like he didn’t even say it. Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative? And at the time of the interview, Powell’s status was up in the air, so when he mentioned the roster not being good enough, he was primarily talking about the roster without Powell.....reportedly.

Dame isn’t dumb, he knows what bringing in another “star” would mean for CJ, and I’m still of the belief that he wants to play, and more importantly win with him. So this push for a hypothetical “all in” move is coming more from the media than Dame himself.

 

[wizenheimer]

whatever....tea-leaves-r-us

however you land on reading-between-the-lines, there's no doubt that Dame is less committed to staying in Portland than he has ever been. Which way he leans in the near future very likely depends on this season and if the Blazers can put together a run that doesn't require Dame going super-nova. The Blazers haven't been able to do that since the 2013-14 season

I sure hope he stays because him as the centerpiece makes the team watchable. If CJ was the centerpiece I'd find that unwatchable.

 

[blazerkor]

There has been nothing to suggest the league values CJ as much as Olshey or that there is any real demand for Ant, Nas, or DJJ. I believe this is why many people here are concerned with Dame wanting us to bring in another legit player to help contend.

Olshey has built as roster, most of which is either overpaid, has injury issues, or just don't have enough talent that other teams would want to give up a great player in return. Dame and RoCo might be the exceptions here (I'm excluding Powell since we can't trade him), but as I've been saying for a while now, this roster has been poorly constructed for a variety of reasons, in particular when it comes to on court makeup (size and versitility) and roster flexibilty in the trade market.

The fact is overpaid or not, CJ has positive value to certain rosters in this league. He's a bucket getter and when he wants to a really good facilitator. I think he has a lot more value than George Hill and Eric Bledsoe did when the Bucks used them along with picks to get Holiday. So it would stand to reason that we would be able to get an all star player on Holiday's level, from the right team for less picks than the Bucks had to send out or an even better player with the same amount of picks.

The problem is that Olshey overvalues CJ so he may never be willing to send out enough other assets to get the return we need because he'll feel like he's overpaying. I think even if we are overpaying (which would mean Olshey would feel like he was overpaying by double) we have to take a big swing.

 

[julius]

He didn’t say that though. He even brought up teams that have made jumps with only a coaching turnover. But that part of his quote has been ignored, almost like he didn’t even say it. Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative? And at the time of the interview, Powell’s status was up in the air, so when he mentioned the roster not being good enough, he was primarily talking about the roster without Powell.....reportedly.

Dame isn’t dumb, he knows what bringing in another “star” would mean for CJ, and I’m still of the belief that he wants to play, and more importantly win with him. So this push for a hypothetical “all in” move is coming more from the media than Dame himself.

It makes me wonder if the threat to leave, by Dame, was really about Powell?

 

[wizenheimer]

The fact is overpaid or not, CJ has positive value to certain rosters in this league. He's a bucket getter and when he wants to a really good facilitator. I think he has a lot more value than George Hill and Eric Bledsoe did when the Bucks used them along with picks to get Holiday. So it would stand to reason that we would be able to get an all star player on Holiday's level, from the right team for less picks than the Bucks had to send out or an even better player with the same amount of picks.

The problem is that Olshey overvalues CJ so he may never be willing to send out enough other assets to get the return we need because he'll feel like he's overpaying. I think even if we are overpaying (which would mean Olshey would feel like he was overpaying by double) we have to take a big swing.

I wonder how much positive value CJ really has

for instance, Philly. The assumption around here is that CJ would really help Philly. But, help Philly do what? Philly's problem is that Harris is not a good enough #2 and Simmons is not even a #3 on offense. Sure, he's a great playmaker and defender, but Philly is really in about the same position as Portland...that being that their #2 doesn't have enough impact. Adding CJ as either the #2 or #3 with Harris plugging into the other option might make their offense better. But their defense and rebounding would suffer...a lot. They'd gain nothing significant by exchanging Simmons for CJ; if anything they might get worse

it's easy to trash Morey for being unreasonable, and he probably deserves it. But he's certainly familiar with Portland and the issue the Blazer have with CJ as the 2nd best player. I can't really blame him if he doesn't want to trade Simmons for that issue

 

[Tince]

He didn’t say that though. He even brought up teams that have made jumps with only a coaching turnover. But that part of his quote has been ignored, almost like he didn’t even say it. Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative? And at the time of the interview, Powell’s status was up in the air, so when he mentioned the roster not being good enough, he was primarily talking about the roster without Powell.....reportedly.

Dame isn’t dumb, he knows what bringing in another “star” would mean for CJ, and I’m still of the belief that he wants to play, and more importantly win with him. So this push for a hypothetical “all in” move is coming more from the media than Dame himself.

He didn't say "... I think if you look at our team as it is going into next season, I don’t see how you can say, ‘This is a championship team. You just need a new coach.’”?

I never said Dame said it was impossible for us to contend with only a coaching move, just that he implied he doesn't think that's likely. I'm not sure how you can read the quote, from him, and think otherwise.

Again, I'm taking him at his word that he isn't asking for a trade right now. I'm also taking him at his word that he doesn't think this is a championship team just with a new coach. I think that's a consistent stance, is it not?

I think cherry picking what direct quotes of his we do and don't want to believe, what reports we do and don't want to believe, all so it's in line with the narrative we want to believe, would be a disservice to objectivity.

 

[Tince]

The fact is overpaid or not, CJ has positive value to certain rosters in this league. He's a bucket getter and when he wants to a really good facilitator. I think he has a lot more value than George Hill and Eric Bledsoe did when the Bucks used them along with picks to get Holiday. So it would stand to reason that we would be able to get an all star player on Holiday's level, from the right team for less picks than the Bucks had to send out or an even better player with the same amount of picks.

The problem is that Olshey overvalues CJ so he may never be willing to send out enough other assets to get the return we need because he'll feel like he's overpaying. I think even if we are overpaying (which would mean Olshey would feel like he was overpaying by double) we have to take a big swing.

John Wall has positive value to certain rosters in the league, but not at his salary. Trying to remove salary from the equation when you're trying to factor in a trade of any player takes out a very important component of trade value.

If we can get a player of Holiday's level in return for CJ, even a loyal Olshey would be nuts to not make that move. That's why I'm finding it hard to believe that we really can.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

It's just weird to me that every conversation seems to end up about Damian Lillard wanting to be traded even though he has explicitly said that is not that case.
Move along people.

 

[Tince]

It's just weird to me that every conversation seems to end up about Damian Lillard wanting to be traded even though he has explicitly said that is not that case.
Move along people.

Legit question: Do you think Dame is a Blazer for the entirety of his current contract? Please explain why or why not.

My answer to this question is different this year than it was last year, but maybe I'm alone.

As much as I'd love to break down how good Cody Zeller and Tony Snell are, I think most important part of this offseason is building a roster so Dame never asks to be traded.

 

[Scalma]

It makes me wonder if the threat to leave, by Dame, was really about Powell?

that’s what’s been reported by Fentress. He said a lot of Dames angst was because he wasn’t sure Powell would be back. Here’s the podcast if anyone wants to hear it themselves.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aH...d=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiondut9KnyAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCA

 

[Scalma]

It's just weird to me that every conversation seems to end up about Damian Lillard wanting to be traded even though he has explicitly said that is not that case.
Move along people.

Yeah, where is this trade request that was evidently gonna come if Olshey didn’t make big moves? Because everything being reported now by anyone in the know (no, not Hank Abbott) leans the exact other way. Almost like it was all exaggerated to begin with.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Legit question: Do you think Dame is a Blazer for the entirety of his current contract? Please explain why or why not.

My answer to this question is different this year than it was last year, but maybe I'm alone.

As much as I'd love to break down how good Cody Zeller and Tony Snell are, I think most important part of this offseason is building a roster so Dame never asks to be traded.

I don't know. I know what Damian Lillard said. Other than that i don't know much. I'm loyal to the soil as my moniker says. I'm a Blazer fan. I want Lillard here. If he gets traded i want a bunch for him. If he doesn't get traded I'm going to root for him.

Edit: That is as honest as i can be and it is not intended to be snarky in any way.

 

[ehizzy3]

So CJ knew his defensive effort was shit but Stotts didn’t hold him accountable so he didn’t care

makes me want to trade him more

 

[tykendo]

So CJ knew his defensive effort was shit but Stotts didn’t hold him accountable so he didn’t care

makes me want to trade him more

CJ's effort on D was ,actually, pretty good to start the season. It's just after the Lumox Capella landed on his foot, he was never the same. On either end. He had lost all his explosiveness. His shot was off. Legs are everything to a shooter, and a defender.

 

[Scalma]

So CJ knew his defensive effort was shit but Stotts didn’t hold him accountable so he didn’t care

makes me want to trade him more

If CJ was the only guy in that boat you might have a point. But when you can say the same about multiple other players on the roster, it’s a coaching problem.

 

[tykendo]

But defense is a % instinct, a % anticipation, and a BIG % effort. And to be the best at it, and still be effective on offense, you have to be in the best shape of your life. From all the stuff i've seen, CJ is training like never before. Not just shooting, but Dame style cross training. I think it will prove to be valuable in achieving the goal.

 

[blazerkor]

I wonder how much positive value CJ really has

for instance, Philly. The assumption around here is that CJ would really help Philly. But, help Philly do what? Philly's problem is that Harris is not a good enough #2 and Simmons is not even a #3 on offense. Sure, he's a great playmaker and defender, but Philly is really in about the same position as Portland...that being that their #2 doesn't have enough impact. Adding CJ as either the #2 or #3 with Harris plugging into the other option might make their offense better. But their defense and rebounding would suffer...a lot. They'd gain nothing significant by exchanging Simmons for CJ; if anything they might get worse

it's easy to trash Morey for being unreasonable, and he probably deserves it. But he's certainly familiar with Portland and the issue the Blazer have with CJ as the 2nd best player. I can't really blame him if he doesn't want to trade Simmons for that issue

I actually think that with Thybulle and Shake they still have plenty of defense and if you can't rebound with guys that have the size and athleticism of Harris and Embiid... I don't know what to say for you. They need a guy that can just get buckets on the perimeter and create by penetrating. That's CJ. So I'm with Zach Lowe and a whole bunch of other sports writers and analysts when I say that CJ really fits that team. Also, CJ is a bad second option next to Dame because they are so redundant in both their strengths and weaknesses, it would be a whole different story with Embiid and Harris.

John Wall has positive value to certain rosters in the league, but not at his salary. Trying to remove salary from the equation when you're trying to factor in a trade of any player takes out a very important component of trade value.

If we can get a player of Holiday's level in return for CJ, even a loyal Olshey would be nuts to not make that move. That's why I'm finding it hard to believe that we really can.

I think comparing CJ to the shell of what was once John Wall is a bit disingenuous or maybe just hyperbolic but either way. CJ isn't broken, he is a legit scorer and can be a great passer. We don't know how good he'd be a defending with good back court defenders and playing primarily against ones. I think that Wall is probably overpaid by 25-26M and CJ is probably overpaid by 6-8M.

As far as getting someone on Holiday's level, that's what we're talking about with Simmons... at the very least. So you give up CJ and the type of draft asset package that the Bucks did to get Simmons if you have to. I just think Olshey is too "nuts" to do what is necessary.

 

[Duckhook]

It's just weird to me that every conversation seems to end up about Damian Lillard wanting to be traded even though he has explicitly said that is not that case.
Move along people.

What's funny is the notion that Dame would want to be traded to a contender. Based on what the Blazers would get back, doesn't anyone think the pieces that made the other team a contender would be coming to the Blazers? A contending team would be gutted in salary coming back to the Blazers. Both teams could conceivably take a hit and be worse off.

 

[tiredhunter]

What's funny is the notion that Dame would want to be traded to a contender. Based on what the Blazers would get back, doesn't anyone think the pieces that made the other team a contender would be coming to the Blazers? A contending team would be gutted in salary coming back to the Blazers. Both teams could conceivably take a hit and be worse off.

Also, unless the contender implodes spectacularly, the picks will not be great.

 

[Duckhook]

Also, unless the contender implodes spectacularly, the picks will not be great.

Good point. Thank you

 

[Tince]

I don't know. I know what Damian Lillard said. Other than that i don't know much. I'm loyal to the soil as my moniker says. I'm a Blazer fan. I want Lillard here. If he gets traded i want a bunch for him. If he doesn't get traded I'm going to root for him.

Edit: That is as honest as i can be and it is not intended to be snarky in any way.

I appreciate your answer! I asked because ones answer to the question could potentially give insight to why they are or are not concerned about another stagnant offseason. Like you, I'm taking Dame at his word that he hasn't demanded a trade. He also said "I haven't made a firm decision on what my future will be." That's not in line with his unwaivering loyalty over his career.

He also requested we "be more urgent" "put action behind it." in regards to upgrading our roster. Cody Zeller/Tony Snell in and Melo/Kanter out isn't "more urgent" in my book.

Because of all this, if Olshey stays on the path of not being able to bring in starting caliber players through the draft (it's been 7 years since he has) or trading for a legit all-star level #2 (he's never done this, only lost an all-star for nothing in return), it's hard for me to see Dame staying in Portland through the remainder of the contract. Olshey could change that, the Blazers could replace Olshey with someone who can change that, but right now, there is no trend that those things are going to happen. I think that's what has some of us getting a little antsy.

 

[Tince]

But defense is a % instinct, a % anticipation, and a BIG % effort. And to be the best at it, and still be effective on offense, you have to be in the best shape of your life. From all the stuff i've seen, CJ is training like never before. Not just shooting, but Dame style cross training. I think it will prove to be valuable in achieving the goal.

Kanter gives fantastic effort on both ends of the floor, he's also tall and very strong. If defense was mostly about effort, Kanter would be a legit defender, not a horrible one.

The good news is that our bench got better defensively and that will help. If Nurk stays healthy and you combined that with the swap of Kanter/Zeller, we should automatically be way better on defense (top 15-20). Nothing to do with scheme or effort, just pure roster creation.

 

[andalusian]

I finally had a chance to hear the pod. No matter what anyone thinks of him as a player or his fit, CJ is such a class act. Quality individual, for sure.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Hahahaahah so wait. Fentress speaks the absolute truth but other reporters are a bunch of liar liar pants on fire types?

My God that is rich.

 

[Strenuus]

It's just weird to me that every conversation seems to end up about Damian Lillard wanting to be traded even though he has explicitly said that is not that case.
Move along people.

It's kinda hard to move along when the words ge said have been spoken. Couple that with the inaction of olshey and its fair for people to speculate.

He never said he WANTED to be traded... but he laid out what he wanted the team to do to be better. And no one can truthfully say we've gotten better with the marginal moves we've made.

So I think it's 100% fair if it trails off to that. You may not like it, but its the reality of this situation.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

It's kinda hard to move along when the words ge said have been spoken. Couple that with the inaction of olshey and its fair for people to speculate.

He never said he WANTED to be traded... but he laid out what he wanted the team to do to be better. And no one can truthfully say we've gotten better with the marginal moves we've made.

So I think it's 100% fair if it trails off to that. You may not like it, but its the reality of this situation.

Seems like lawyer speak to me? Legalese.
"I object your honor!"
"The witness is projecting that he knows what the defendant is thinking"
"Sustained"

"Objection"
"On what grounds"

"Counsel is leading the witness"

"Overruled"

Again and Again

How about we see what happens? The team has a new coach. As i understand Stotts couldn't coach his way out of a paper sack (though some might disagree). Improvements defensively have been made. Defensive liabilities are no longer being asked to contribute large amounts of minutes. Players that needed time to develop have now developed a bit more. Injuries have not occurred as of yet? We all know this season could get derailed very quickly with injuries. Happens pretty much every year.
Last but not least. This starting 5 has had 30 games as constructed and will now have a full training camp together to get tuned up. Add a better Nassir Little, an improved Simons, A sharp shooting Tony Snell and a serviceable Cody Zeller plus Ben McLemore not to mention Derick Jones jr? They might just surprise. Blazers are constructed better than a bunch are giving them credit for.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they could win 50 games. 44-45 as a team and Lillard may will them to 5 more.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What's funny is the notion that Dame would want to be traded to a contender. Based on what the Blazers would get back, doesn't anyone think the pieces that made the other team a contender would be coming to the Blazers? A contending team would be gutted in salary coming back to the Blazers. Both teams could conceivably take a hit and be worse off.

Hence all the three team trades people are suggesting.

And, of course, Golden State has that package of young players that won't really contribute to their immediate contention.