CJ's third year is a mirror image of Lillard's second

[BigGameDamian]

He kind of reminds me of Tony Parker with his ability to slither into open midrange shots. Maybe not quite as clever as Parker in his prime, but far better three point range.

Hard to believe TP is only 33.

Slither into midrange open shots. Shit! Seriously though, I would like to see these guards in the NBA today with the rules of the 80s and early 90s. It would be interesting to see how they would do.

 

[illmatic99]

Well, I see the similarities to Curry if you take away Curry's insane abilities from behind the three point line.

But that's kind of like saying Roy Hibbert is just as good as Shaq at everything except dunking. It's kind of a big deal.

Perhaps, but the difference isn't as big as the one between Roy and Shaq.

CJ, after the all star game has shot 48% from 3 on over 5 attempts a game. Steph is at 45% (on double the attempts yes, but still).

This isn't really a new comparison either. http://www.nbadraft.net/players/cj-mccollum

 

[42N8Bounce]

I love Dame, but I've found that CJ has become my favorite Blazer to watch this year.

Here's a look at their career PER numbers -



CJ is moving up fast. Hopefully he can continue that upward trend.

 

[Strenuus]

Slither into midrange open shots. Shit! Seriously though, I would like to see these guards in the NBA today with the rules of the 80s and early 90s. It would be interesting to see how they would do.

But we're not in the 80's or 90's, Uncle Rico, so it's wasted time.

 

[Tunchi]

I love Dame, but I've found that CJ has become my favorite Blazer to watch this year.

Here's a look at their career PER numbers -

View attachment 8595

CJ is moving up fast. Hopefully he can continue that upward trend.

Hes super nice. Thats why I always say hes arguably better than Lillard

 

[BigGameDamian]

But we're not in the 80's or 90's, Uncle Rico, so it's wasted time.

I'm just saying it be interesting to see all these guards & small forwards, how they would do against tougher defence. I don't think I'm the only one that's ever wondered about that.

 

[handiman]

He kind of reminds me of Tony Parker with his ability to slither into open midrange shots. Maybe not quite as clever as Parker in his prime, but far better three point range.

I hadn't considered that comparison, but I can see it. Maybe a Parker-Ginobili hybrid?

 

[Strenuus]

I'm just saying it be interesting to see all these guards & small forwards, how they would do against tougher defence. I don't think I'm the only one that's ever wondered about that.

Who cares? It's a waste of time to talk about it, Uncle Rico.

 

[dviss1]

Perhaps, but the difference isn't as big as the one between Roy and Shaq.

CJ, after the all star game has shot 48% from 3 on over 5 attempts a game. Steph is at 45% (on double the attempts yes, but still).

This isn't really a new comparison either. http://www.nbadraft.net/players/cj-mccollum

In the same link

"His most popular media comparison, Damian Lillard, averaged 4 assists per game his senior year .."

 

[dviss1]

I'm just saying it be interesting to see all these guards & small forwards, how they would do against tougher defence. I don't think I'm the only one that's ever wondered about that.

No one really cares tbh.

 

[Strenuus]

No one really cares tbh.

And this is coming from someone who refs the damn game.

/discussion

 

[mook]

Just bumping this to see if it held through the playoffs.

Seems like his playoffs were about the same as well. Less scoring and assists, and lower shooting efficiency though.

Both guys were on teams that went 11 games into the playoffs as well, with Lillard going against Houston and then SA, while we went Clips/GS. Both with gentlemen's sweeps in the second round. So kind of an easier opening round and then a really brutal second round opponent. Each guy was the second best player on the team through the playoffs.

We don't talk about CJ's upside a lot because he's been so polished, much like Dame that year. But it's interesting to think about whether he can be a 25-26ppg scorer like Dame in another year or two.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What's "VORP" exactly, and why is Lillard so much higher in it?

 

[Boob-No-More]

What's "VORP" exactly,

It's one of the measurements they take at the re-draft combine. It's the measure of alcohol tolerance (Volume of Rum Punch). It's basically how many pints of rum punch a player can consume before they can no longer pass a sobriety test.

and why is Lillard so much higher in it?

Because, he drinks like a fish.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's one of the measurements they take at the re-draft combine. It's the measure of alcohol tolerance (Volume of Rum Punch). It's basically how many pints of rum punch a player can consume before they can no longer pass a sobriety test.



Because, he drinks like a fish.

BNM

Ok, that wasn't very helpful. The full formula and a detailed explanation can be found here.

The complicated part is calculating BPM, once you have that VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) is easy:

"So, to calculate VORP, the formula is simply: [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82). This yields the number of points the player is producing over a replacement player, per 100 TEAM possessions over an entire season."

I also found this tidbit interesting:

"The beauty of VORP is that like WAR in baseball, it should track linearly with salary. A player with a VORP of 4.0 is worth, on the market, about twice what a player of VORP 2.0 is worth. Sometimes good players play few minutes for reasons outside their control, and would be worth more because they should be getting more minutes. Still, for a crude estimate, VORP is valuable. It does measure fairly accurately what a player did produce in terms of value for a given team."

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: VORP:

I dimly recall someone explaining this to me before. And me objecting: "but doesn't that make it dependent on the quality of your teammates"?

 

[Tunchi]

Hey ya know how I feel

Glad we have both !

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: VORP:

I dimly recall someone explaining this to me before. And me objecting: "but doesn't that make it dependent on the quality of your teammates"?

No, it doesn't.

It's true that if only individual stats were used, it would depend on the quality of your teammates. For example, DeAndre Jordan's TS% is higher with Chris Paul throwing him lobs than it would be if his starting PG was Nolan Smith. Likewise, Draymond Green's AST% benefits because he plays with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson instead of Ish Smith and Nik Stauskas.

However, you must have missed the section titled The Team Summation at the link I provided. It uses advanced team stats to attempt to normalize a players individual contributions as if he played on league average team, instead of his actual team.

I'm sure it's not perfect, none of these one-stat-to-rule-them-all stats are, but this on made an effort to account for variables like team performance, strength of schedule, pace, etc. If there is weakness to BPM and VORP it's that there is even more advanced data available for recent seasons, but the creators of these stats chose to ignore that data to be able to use their one-size-fits-all stats for historic comparisons. So, they had to rely on historically available data to achieve that goal.

BNM