Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out

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Interesting. What are the primary causes for this acidification?

I'm uneducated on the issue of climate change, but I really do wonder the impact humankind has on the overall climate. Are we the cause or are we just contributing? To what level are we contributing?:dunno:

Basically ocean acidification is caused by the CO2 in the atmosphere. The ocean absorbs it and it causes problems with algae, shellfish, coral, etc...
here's a link
 
Basically ocean acidification is caused by the CO2 in the atmosphere. The ocean absorbs it and it causes problems with algae, shellfish, coral, etc...
here's a link

I think he'd be more worried about ocean crapification.

At the rate at which developing (and developed) countries are dumping trash and waste into the sea, and the rate at which certain species of fish (mainly food mainstays) are depleting, it may not really matter if the ocean becomes over acidified.

That being said, kudos to the U.S. where the regulated seafood harvesting, while still a little glitchy, seems to preserve the stockpile. Perhaps in 100 years we'll have a seafood monopoly!
 
My dad is a marine biologist and I asked him if he thought global warming theory is sound. He said there is probably more evidence for global warming than evolution but that carbon dioxide emission may not be the causes for the rise in temperature.

He added that ocean acidification may be a bigger and more immediate problem than climate change.

You might want to tell him that the globe has been cooling for at least 10 years.

So ... then what?
 
My dad is a marine biologist and I asked him if he thought global warming theory is sound. He said there is probably more evidence for global warming than evolution but that carbon dioxide emission may not be the causes for the rise in temperature.

He added that ocean acidification may be a bigger and more immediate problem than climate change.

What you bolded is certainly true, and it is what I've believed for years.
 
You might want to tell him that the globe has been cooling for at least 10 years.

So ... then what?

Where did you hear that? I just did a google and nothing relevant came back.

Melting glaciers and polar ice caps would contradict a warming planet. I've read that climate change may be due to rises in CO2, regular climate cycles or increases in solar flares but nothing that outright states the planet is not warming.
 
Where did you hear that? I just did a google and nothing relevant came back.

Melting glaciers and polar ice caps would contradict a warming planet. I've read that climate change may be due to rises in CO2, regular climate cycles or increases in solar flares but nothing that outright states the planet is not warming.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

7390_large_hadcrut.jpg
 
Where did you hear that? I just did a google and nothing relevant came back.

Melting glaciers and polar ice caps would contradict a warming planet. I've read that climate change may be due to rises in CO2, regular climate cycles or increases in solar flares but nothing that outright states the planet is not warming.

Are you aware of the hacking of the Hadley CRU servers? The hacking that showed outright fraud and manipulation of data? Phil Jones just resigned over this. He'll be lucky if he isn't prosecuted in the UK.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...ith-global-warming...-it-stopped-in-1998.html

There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero).

Yes, you did read that right. And also, yes, this eight-year period of temperature stasis did coincide with society's continued power station and SUV-inspired pumping of yet more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

...

The essence of the issue is this. Climate changes naturally all the time, partly in predictable cycles, and partly in unpredictable shorter rhythms and rapid episodic shifts, some of the causes of which remain unknown. We are fortunate that our modern societies have developed during the last 10,000 years of benignly warm, interglacial climate. But for more than 90 per cent of the last two million years, the climate has been colder, and generally much colder, than today. The reality of the climate record is that a sudden natural cooling is far more to be feared, and will do infinitely more social and economic damage, than the late 20th century phase of gentle warming.
...
Prof Bob Carter is a geologist at James Cook University, Queensland, engaged in paleoclimate research
 
I just did a google of global cooling and that came back with some good links. The sites weren't based on good science though. 2008 was still the 10th warmest on record so it's not accurate to say temperatures have been falling for 10 years.

Denny's graph shows a dip in global temperatures in the past year but the trend is still toward a warming planet.
From Nasa
Fig.A2.lrg.gif
 
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I just did a google of global cooling and that came back with some good links.

Denny's graph shows a dip in global temperatures in the past year but the trend is still toward a warming planet.
From Nasa
Fig.A2.lrg.gif

James Hansen had to revise this data. It's bunk. Steve McIntire busted him on it.

It's all a hoax. The data has been corrupted, and some of it even destroyed. The scientific scandal of the century, and our lame ass media here won't touch it.
 
James Hansen had to revise this data. It's bunk. Steve McIntire busted him on it.

It's all a hoax. The data has been corrupted, and some of it even destroyed. The scientific scandal of the century, and our lame ass media here won't touch it.

Nasa's data is bunk?
 
James Hansen had to revise this data. It's bunk. Steve McIntire busted him on it.

It's all a hoax. The data has been corrupted, and some of it even destroyed. The scientific scandal of the century, and our lame ass media here won't touch it.

You mean like the science adviser to the President stating that the manipulation of data should be investigated?

He still made a good point - while there were some questionable activities around manipulation of data (and by manipulation I do not mean simply bad manipulation), the studies that they had argued against were flawed.

I think that you're trying to apply your solution to the framework and it makes an easy fit.
 
You mean like the science adviser to the President stating that the manipulation of data should be investigated?

He still made a good point - while there were some questionable activities around manipulation of data (and by manipulation I do not mean simply bad manipulation), the studies that they had argued against were flawed.

I think that you're trying to apply your solution to the framework and it makes an easy fit.

I have two questions that I'm sure you have answers to.

1) Why do they need to collude to destroy their data and documentation if there were a FOIA request?
2) Why do they need to collude to keep conflicting studies from being published and peer reviewed?

I look forward to the answers. I can't figure it out.
 
Basically ocean acidification is caused by the CO2 in the atmosphere. The ocean absorbs it and it causes problems with algae, shellfish, coral, etc...
here's a link

Thanks for the link. I tried to rep you, but I have to spread some more around.:cheers:
 
Basically ocean acidification is caused by the CO2 in the atmosphere. The ocean absorbs it and it causes problems with algae, shellfish, coral, etc...
here's a link

I remember hearing/seeing something about pockets of de-oxygenated water and pretty much everything dies in it. It isn't running rampant in the world, but the idea of a dead ocean is frightening.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/1...ntry5866076.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Democrats: "ClimateGate" Leak A Non-Scandal

Posted by Declan McCullagh

(CBS/EARLY SHOW)If you're a U.S. politician calling for expensive new laws relating to global warming, you know you're in trouble when Jon Stewart lampoons the scientists whose embarrassing e-mail messages were disclosed in what's being called "ClimateGate."

But Democrats put a brave face on it on Wednesday, with Massachusetts Rep. Ed Markey saying that the leaked files and allegations of scientific misconduct should not stand in the way of the U.S. Congress swiftly enacting cap and trade legislation to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. (See earlier CBSNews.com coverage of ClimateGate and the costs of cap and trade.)

Markey, the head of a House global warming committee, said during a hearing that his Republican colleagues "sit over here using a couple of e-mails to (tell us) how to deal with a catastrophic threat to our planet." And: "There is no alternative theory that the minority is proposing, other than that we know has been funded by the oil, by the coal industries that want to continue business as usual."

That's a bit of an overstatement. The leak includes over 1,000 e-mail messages, and another 2,500 or so computer files, many of which are still being analyzed. And the burden of proof should properly be on anyone -- even a House committee chairman -- proposing new taxes and extensive regulations, especially when climate science is anything but settled.

It is true that, if other independent data sets confirm what the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit claimed, ClimateGate's effect on the view of climate trends may be minimal. Then again, as Reason's Ron Bailey notes, University of Colorado climatologist Roger Pielke Sr. says the CRU data is not independent of NASA and other temperature data sets. Pielke had previously written that the CRU and its political allies have been trying to "manipulate the science, so that their viewpoints are the only ones that reach the policymakers."

Markets benefit from competition, not monopolization, and so do markets in ideas. That's the argument that Republicans advanced during Wednesday's hearing, with Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner saying that "the controversy over the leaked e-mails, and their contents, cannot be ignored because it goes to the very basis of the debate" over global warming and what laws are necessary as a result.

"We're being asked as a Congress to make major changes in American society, in energy use and how much the out-of-pocket cost is to everyone in this country, as a result of this debate," the Wisconsin Republican said. "We'd better get it right. The scientists may be able to change their story (but it's) as difficult to repeal the consequences of that law as it is to get milk back in the cow."

Fellow GOP Rep. Candace Miller of Michigan, who has called for hearings into ClimateGate: "I recognize that the e-mails are an inconvenient truth, perhaps, an embarrassment on the brink of Copenhagen... There is at least a debate on whether or not climate change is human-induced."

Meanwhile, Sen. James Inhofe, the Oklahoma Republican who's a high-profile critic of the theory of global warming caused by mankind, has instructed the University of Arizona's Malcolm Hughes -- whose correspondence appears in the disclosed files -- not to delete any of those e-mail messages. Investigations into climate change researchers are already underway at Penn State and East Anglia, home of the CRU.

John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, didn't mention the leaked files in his prepared testimony, which said the U.S. must "act promptly to reduce global emissions to the atmosphere of carbon dioxide" or face "extreme" and "damaging" consequences.

But when Holdren showed up at the Rayburn House Office Building, he end up being pressed on ClimateGate and little else. He denied its significance, calling the embarrassing disclosures "not remotely sufficient to demonstrate a culture of corruption" and said "as to exactly what went on in the way of manipulation of data, that remains to be seen." He objected to the idea of an independent probe -- the CRU received U.S. government grants -- on grounds that he's not sure an "independent investigation by the Congress of the United States is a way to get at the truth."

Moderate Republicans who helped Ed Markey and Nancy Pelosi push through the cap and trade bill by a narrow vote are backing away from anything to do with the measure. Politico reports that Rep. Mark Kirk of Illinois (who supported the idea) and Sen. John McCain of Arizona (ditto) have now become critics.

Does anyone really think that, in the wake of the CRU disclosures, cap and trade would clear the House of Representatives if put to a vote today? It certainly didn't this week in Australia's Parliament, where a vote to reject the idea garnered a 41-33 majority. What a difference only a few months, and a few thousand computer files, makes.

Update 9:21 p.m. ET: Sen. Barbara Boxer, a California Democrat, says ClimateGate hackers should face criminal penalties. (Then again, if we're talking about an anonymous whistleblower, there's no hacking involved.) Ian Plimer, a professor who teaches earth science at Australia's University of Adelaide, has reiterated his criticism of the climate change lobby in no uncertain terms, calling it a "load of hot air underpinned by fraud."

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-december-1-2009/scientists-hide-global-warming-data
 
I have two questions that I'm sure you have answers to.

1) Why do they need to collude to destroy their data and documentation if there were a FOIA request?
2) Why do they need to collude to keep conflicting studies from being published and peer reviewed?

I look forward to the answers. I can't figure it out.

I can answer the second one. From what I have heard ..and granted this could be a load of BS... they were trying to keep studies out because they were based on bad science or performed with bad data. In fact Obama's science adviser stood by his statement found in an email that one of the studies was just out-and-out bad...as in performed poorly.

The biggest part of this issue that I see is that the topic has become too politicized. Everyone wants to fit the argument into their framework and I think it would be not be in the least surprising to find out that the people who hacked the accounts wanted to spawn all of this "disturbance" and questioning.

It's idiotic to me that both sides can't put down the guns for a few moments, apoliticize the discussion and look through the facts while trying to tamper down the obvious bias. If one side is right then we're speeding the Earth towards irreversible doom. If the other side is right then we're pouring a crap load more money into something that's a scientific scam. With stakes such as these it just galls me that an objective evaluation of the facts could probably never be run and never be accepted if it were. The unfortunate consequence, of course, is that most likely one of the two catastrophic events will occur and then it's too late.

We might as well just start picking out states now and divide the U.S. if we're never going to work together. I don't even remember the last time we did that politically.
 
It is true that, if other independent data sets confirm what the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit claimed, ClimateGate's effect on the view of climate trends may be minimal. Then again, as Reason's Ron Bailey notes, University of Colorado climatologist Roger Pielke Sr. says the CRU data is not independent of NASA and other temperature data sets. Pielke had previously written that the CRU and its political allies have been trying to "manipulate the science, so that their viewpoints are the only ones that reach the policymakers."

So, is Ron Bailey accusing all climate data collecting organizations of being cohorts?

This data has been publicly available for years. Seems unlikely that all these data sets could be manipulated without detection
 
I can answer the second one. From what I have heard ..and granted this could be a load of BS... they were trying to keep studies out because they were based on bad science or performed with bad data. In fact Obama's science adviser stood by his statement found in an email that one of the studies was just out-and-out bad...as in performed poorly.

The biggest part of this issue that I see is that the topic has become too politicized. Everyone wants to fit the argument into their framework and I think it would be not be in the least surprising to find out that the people who hacked the accounts wanted to spawn all of this "disturbance" and questioning.

It's idiotic to me that both sides can't put down the guns for a few moments, apoliticize the discussion and look through the facts while trying to tamper down the obvious bias. If one side is right then we're speeding the Earth towards irreversible doom. If the other side is right then we're pouring a crap load more money into something that's a scientific scam. With stakes such as these it just galls me that an objective evaluation of the facts could probably never be run and never be accepted if it were. The unfortunate consequence, of course, is that most likely one of the two catastrophic events will occur and then it's too late.

We might as well just start picking out states now and divide the U.S. if we're never going to work together. I don't even remember the last time we did that politically.

It is irrelevant what Obama's science advisor thinks. The studies should be published and peer reviewed, not kept out of publication by some cabal who has now been exposed. To top if off, when guys publish their studies anywhere they can, they're accused of publishing stuff that's not peer reviewed. Nice how that works.

It's looking like a whistleblower is responsible for uploading the files.

The raw data has been erased. Strange, eh?

The emails made public show a collusion between these European scientists and many in the United States. In fact, Michael E. Mann of the Mann Hockey Stick Graph is under investigation at Penn State over all this. The emails also discussed plans to destroy their data and research if it were ever under a FOIA request.

It really looks bad, no matter how you slice and dice it.
:dunno:
 
The studies should be published and peer reviewed, not kept out of publication by some cabal who has now been exposed.

You know what peer review is, right?

barfo
 
You know what peer review is, right?

barfo

It isn't peer review if it's one peer or a small number with an agenda.

It IS peer review if it's made public so EVERY peer can review the report and data and arrive at the same conclusions.
 
It isn't peer review if it's one peer or a small number with an agenda.

It IS peer review if it's made public so EVERY peer can review the report and data and arrive at the same conclusions.

That might be your definition of peer review, but it is not the commonly accepted meaning.
The commonly accepted meaning is a small cabal which decides whether something should be published or not. Pre-publication review, not post.

barfo
 
That might be your definition of peer review, but it is not the commonly accepted meaning.
The commonly accepted meaning is a small cabal which decides whether something should be published or not. Pre-publication review, not post.

barfo

So it would be OK in your book for creationists to "peer review" scientific works and prevent them from being published.

gotcha.
 
So it would be OK in your book for creationists to "peer review" scientific works and prevent them from being published.

gotcha.

I said nothing of the sort. I was simply explaining to you what the term meant.

barfo
 
Not unless you consider creationists and scientists peers.

barfo

I consider "scientists" who fake their data and plot to keep accurate information out of journals, to not be peers of real scientists.
 
I consider "scientists" who fake their data and plot to keep accurate information out of journals, to not be peers of real scientists.

Wow, that's a pretty radical stance you got there. I suppose you are anti-genocide too?

barfo
 
If you have a point, I don't get it.
 
If you have a point, I don't get it.

You said you were anti-cheating. I was implying that that is a universal enough viewpoint that it doesn't really need to be stated.

barfo
 

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