OT Clips worried DJ could bolt

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jlprk said:
Jordan's ceiling is Kevin Duckworth. He might have a couple of peak years coming, but he's not worth what our other starters are.
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And why's that exactly...?
 
Why's what exactly. You're seeing some blue chip talent on the level of Aldridge, Lillard, Batum, and Matthews? He's peaking on a good team. On a bad team you think he'd be a leader? His current teammates make him look good.
 
Batum is better than Jordan??? HAH
Jordans insane athleticism makes him the best Pick N Roll option there is
He's the best rebounder in the league
And one of if not the best defensive big man in the game

He's not "blue-chip", it's actually the people around him? He's not blue-chip compared to Nic Batum? Cmon man.
 
Jordan is a better version of McGee. They both have the potential to be transformative defensive players, but need the right system and coach to harness their skills. In a vacuum neither is game-changing.
 
jlprk said:
The theme of this article is of Doc Rivers making an ass out of himself as usual, but the article is really all about criticizing DeAndre Jordan. It summarizes an Insider article by Tom Haberstroh, and you get to read it for free.

http://deadspin.com/doc-rivers-is-the-worst-kind-of-internet-commenter-1691338367
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the argument has little substance. In high school I played next to guy that was 6'8. Im 6'5. If a rebound came off in my direction but he was close, I'd let him have it and run the court. Now if he was smaller and not as good of a rebounder, I would just get it myself. I think it's the same scenario, and the fact that he gets so many offensive boards when those are the hard kind, shows how good of a reminder he is.
Also acording to analytics, Anything Davis is a bad rim protected giving up 48% contested shooting at the rim. But do we actually think he's only an average defender?? There's so many variables, suck as the Clippers being bad perimeter defenders, where shooting outside shots is better for the other team. When Jordan's in they decide to shoot more 3s and shoot outside, which may end up being better for them. Then when he goes out they try and take advantage by gettting to the rim, where they force up shots, missing most.

Basically saying there's too many variables to consider to say he's not a great defender based on one stat like that
 
BonesJones said:
the argument has little substance. In high school I played next to guy that was 6'8. Im 6'5. If a rebound came off in my direction but he was close, I'd let him have it and run the court. Now if he was smaller and not as good of a rebounder, I would just get it myself. I think it's the same scenario, and the fact that he gets so many offensive boards when those are the hard kind, shows how good of a reminder he is.
Also acording to analytics, Anything Davis is a bad rim protected giving up 48% contested shooting at the rim. But do we actually think he's only an average defender?? There's so many variables, suck as the Clippers being bad perimeter defenders, where shooting outside shots is better for the other team. When Jordan's in they decide to shoot more 3s and shoot outside, which may end up being better for them. Then when he goes out they try and take advantage by gettting to the rim, where they force up shots, missing most.

Basically saying there's too many variables to consider to say he's not a great defender based on one stat like that
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It's useless continuing to argue with the people in this thread. The majority has decided that DeAndre is a complete dumbass, hack of a center who steals rebounds and can't play defense. How quickly have people forgotten the month Blake Griffin was out and everyone though the Clippers were fucked? CP3 stepped up for sure, but DeAndre became an absolute MONSTER:

The statistical proof of Jordan’s dominance this past month has already been well documented. He hasn’t just led the NBA in rebounds during Griffin’s absence – he’s massacred the league. With 215 boards between Feb. 1 and March 1, he was nearly 50 percent better than Andre Drummond and Hassan Whiteside, who tied for second in the league at 145. Jordan’s February splits of 16.0 points, 17.2 rebounds, 1.6 blocks and 1.1 steals per game were reminiscent of Wilt or Kareem. We are witnessing a 26-year-old big man in the seventh year of his career showing unheard-of levels of improvement from out of nowhere.
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http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2015/03...griffins-shadow-this-is-deandre-jordans-time/

Is the guy a superstar? No. But he is a Top 5 center in this league and an UNRESTRICTED free agent. If the Blazers want to remain a constant candidate to keep getting knocked out in the first two rounds, then by all means resign the middling RoLo and keep disappointing the fan base year-in and year-out.
 
Is he worth the Max? Because the Clippers will offer it to him. The whole thread is moot because he is not leaving LA for Portland just because of Neil.
 
In a perfect world we orchestrate a s&t sending Kaman (partial Gurantee or Center fill in) and Batum to the Clippers for Jordan. In doing so we don't have to renounce anyone. Hopefully in the draft we will have added a SF similar to Hollis-Jefferson. We manage to retain Rolo and Wes. We should then still have a MLE to spend on a SF, or we could simply bring back Dorrell Wright, or Crabbe looked good as a starter before getting banged up

PG Lillard/Frazier/Blake
SG Wes/CJ/Crabbe
SF Wright/Crabbe/?
PF Aldridge/Leonard
C Jordan/ ROLO

Then in looking at this, there are so many other possibilities too. Example we could renounce Robin for example and still pursue a better FA SF, or a simpler one like Dunleavy or Singler. Lots of options if we use Batum and Kaman to upgrade the roster, it's almost like having an additional $22mil in cap space.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Is he worth the Max? Because the Clippers will offer it to him. The whole thread is moot because he is not leaving LA for Portland just because of Neil.
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In the CBA of years past, probably not. But everyone is so conservative with contracts like it is their own money. It's Paul Allen's and he has plenty of it. The only thing that has held him back from spending on the Blazers again was the fact we hadn't been a contender and that the salary cap had held us back....With the influx of TV money and the likely increase again in a couple years with the sports betting money, the Blazers are going to be in as strong of a position as any with regards to money to spend.

I don't think you understand the kind of contracts that will be given out both this summer and next. Next summer will be crazy because of the fact everyone will have cap space...this summer will be ridiculous because many teams will be giving out "max" contracts they will be fairly reasonable deals under the new cap. DeAndre also isn't guaranteed to take a max 4/80 deal this summer, he is a prime candidate to take a two-year max deal with a PO after 1 and cash in next offseason. Would allow him to test out and see how PDX would be a fit and if it works out re-up under the new cap and make even more. He's made nearly $50M already, so he has the stability to use such a strategy....but then again that is called "looking ahead" and isn't something many on this board are good at doing.
 
Schilly said:
In a perfect world we orchestrate a s&t sending Kaman (partial Gurantee or Center fill in) and Batum to the Clippers for Jordan. In doing so we don't have to renounce anyone. Hopefully in the draft we will have added a SF similar to Hollis-Jefferson. We manage to retain Rolo and Wes. We should then still have a MLE to spend on a SF, or we could simply bring back Dorrell Wright, or Crabbe looked good as a starter before getting banged up

PG Lillard/Frazier/Blake
SG Wes/CJ/Crabbe
SF Wright/Crabbe/?
PF Aldridge/Leonard
C Jordan/ ROLO

Then in looking at this, there are so many other possibilities too. Example we could renounce Robin for example and still pursue a better FA SF, or a simpler one like Dunleavy or Singler. Lots of options if we use Batum and Kaman to upgrade the roster, it's almost like having an additional $22mil in cap space.
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Exactly. This is the exact reason Olshey has molded the roster in this way. We have so much flexibility, no matter what happens between now and FA, we have the cap flexibility and the resources from Paul Allen to get anything done.
 
Blazer Freak said:
It's useless continuing to argue with the people in this thread. The majority has decided that DeAndre is a complete dumbass, hack of a center who steals rebounds and can't play defense. How quickly have people forgotten the month Blake Griffin was out and everyone though the Clippers were fucked? CP3 stepped up for sure, but DeAndre became an absolute MONSTER:

Is the guy a superstar? No. But he is a Top 5 center in this league and an UNRESTRICTED free agent. If the Blazers want to remain a constant candidate to keep getting knocked out in the first two rounds, then by all means resign the middling RoLo and keep disappointing the fan base year-in and year-out.
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That certainly is the best case that can be made for Jordan. And he certainly is a gifted rebounder, possibly the best in the NBA and maybe since Rodman, or at least Young Dwight.
Nobody is denying that.
Here's the thing though: to quote from the very article you linked to:

Jordan’s game has not magically expanded. He’s still terrible from the free throw line and as one-dimensional as ever on the offensive end.
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That's him AT HIS ABSOLUTE PEAK. Would you have given Dennis Rodman a max contract? Dennis Rodman was actually a far superior defender (more so before he started obsessing about rebounds) and part of a 70-win team. But the game has changed. Jordan was playing next to perhaps the best PG in the last decade, who orchestrates his entire team's behavior while on the court and can throw lobs like nobody else. Also with a coach who has made it his mission to "rescue" Jordan. To get Jordan we would have to absolutely gut our team. Is it worth it? I would do it for Marc Gasol, absolutely, because he's a much better all-around player whom you can KEEP ON THE COURT AT ALL TIMES. But Jordan is too much of a risk and way too expensive for what he is.

Remember: Doc even managed to make Austin Rivers look good. But I think we all know THAT'S an illusion.
 
DeAndre is a nice example of a bigger name then player. He is a good defender not great, he has his limitations but what he does well he does so well that it can make you forget his limitations. He is an apsolute monster on the boards.
Pre injury id take Lopez over Jordan. Lopez isnt better one on one defender, nor is he a better rebounder but Lopez is better at protecting the rim, boxing out which is why we are such a good rebounding team, and Lopez isnt a non factor save for dunking and putbacks on the offensive side.
Unfortunately the Lopez we saw come back after his injury wasnt near the same player as before he went down. It shouldn't be a injury that changes how a player plays and how effective he is for the rest of his career but I wont come out and say im 100% sure he will come back as the same player he was Pre injury.
Im not against getting Jordan but I dont think he would be as effective with Portland as he is with the Clippers. I also think we can get Lopez and Wes for the price of Jordan and thats a risk but its a risk that could pay off big time.
With all that said if LMA leaves id sign Jordan and look to deal him next season or the season after because teams will talk themselves into him and I think we could get great compensation back.
 
Rhal said:
With all that said if LMA leaves id sign Jordan and look to deal him next season or the season after because teams will talk themselves into him and I think we could get great compensation back.
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What a depressing prospect! I'd like to believe that we have players as players, not simply as investments. We'd be the equivalent of people who buy houses to flip them.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
That certainly is the best case that can be made for Jordan. And he certainly is a gifted rebounder, possibly the best in the NBA and maybe since Rodman, or at least Young Dwight.
Nobody is denying that.
Here's the thing though: to quote from the very article you linked to:



That's him AT HIS ABSOLUTE PEAK. Would you have given Dennis Rodman a max contract? Dennis Rodman was actually a far superior defender (more so before he started obsessing about rebounds) and part of a 70-win team. But the game has changed. Jordan was playing next to perhaps the best PG in the last decade, who orchestrates his entire team's behavior while on the court and can throw lobs like nobody else. Also with a coach who has made it his mission to "rescue" Jordan. To get Jordan we would have to absolutely gut our team. Is it worth it? I would do it for Marc Gasol, absolutely, because he's a much better all-around player whom you can KEEP ON THE COURT AT ALL TIMES. But Jordan is too much of a risk and way too expensive for what he is.

Remember: Doc even managed to make Austin Rivers look good. But I think we all know THAT'S an illusion.
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Now, I've never said we should go after DeAndre if it means renouncing Wes, RoLo, etc to clear the capspace to do it. We are in agreement over Gasol, but that isn't happening. I understand that he is in a great spot in LAC, but I don't see much of a difference honestly if he was on our team. Blake is throwing half the alley-oops to him anyways, and all you honestly need to do is throw it in his general vicinity.

As for your Dennis Rodman point...it's a completely different era and NBA. If Rodman was as effective and in the NBA right now....he honestly would be getting a max contract. The league is different, and the money is going to be free-flowing with the salary cap exploding. I've said multiple times now that I don't think DeAndre is worth a max contract, but that is what freakishly athletic, great rebounding, good defending 7-footers make in today's NBA.

Also, Doc has not made Austin Rivers look good...he has just been such a bad GM that he has had NO CHOICE but to play him since they are only 7 players deep and CP3 was hurt. Anybody who is in the NBA (especially those who at one point were a top-ranked recruit) can produce given the ball and starter minutes.
 
Blazer Freak said:
Now, I've never said we should go after DeAndre if it means renouncing Wes, RoLo, etc to clear the capspace to do it. .
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But that is part of the equation. When I asked if you were willing to give Jordan the max because the Clippers will, it was with the understanding that it would effect other players that we could keep or bring in. I understand and agree with you about the crazy contracts that will be given out in the next couple of years and it will make the ones we offer this summer seem tame, but it still comes down to whether or not Jordan is worth 20 million a year. He might be.

But will he want an opt out clause as well so he can get more next year?
 
Pinwheel1 said:
But that is part of the equation. When I asked if you were willing to give Jordan the max because the Clippers will, it was with the understanding that it would effect other players that we could keep or bring in. I understand and agree with you about the crazy contracts that will be given out in the next couple of years and it will make the ones we offer this summer seem tame, but it still comes down to whether or not Jordan is worth 20 million a year. He might be.

But will he want an opt out clause as well so he can get more next year?
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But what people seem to be missing is that the flexibilty that Olshey has created given the roster composition means that we can offer a S&T that would free up the space to bring him in without having to renounce everyone. If DeAndre leaves LAC, it's going to be via S&T, because the Clippers cannot afford to lose him for absolutely nothing, they have no flexibility as it is. As I've stated multiple times before on this board, I've heard from someone who has a well-placed connection within the Blazers that PDX was reallyyyyyyy pushing for a Batum/DeAndre trade towards the beginning of the season. If we have a chance to get him, I think it's going to be centered around a S&T involving those two.

It is definitely a possibility he would want a contract with an opt-out clause, and if thats the case you give it to him. I think the team he has around him here is much better than the team in LAC if we only have to give up Batum/filler for him.
 
He made first team all-defense. SMH.

I can't believe this guy Rivers. Paying off somebody to get Jordan credentials about defense. This must be so Rivers can get something for Jordan when he dumps him.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
And he certainly is a gifted rebounder, possibly the best in the NBA and maybe since Rodman, or at least Young Dwight. Nobody is denying that.
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No one is denying that this is the 89th Next Rodman since Rodman.

Rastapopoulos said:
Remember: Doc even managed to make Austin Rivers look good. But I think we all know THAT'S an illusion.
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Now you're talking. Hollywood is media hype illusion. Put Lakers/Clippers on other teams and they are good, but not great as they seemed in LaLaLand.
 
Blazer Freak said:
I think the team he has around him here is much better than the team in LAC if we only have to give up Batum/filler for him.
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Clearly you don't think much of Batum and yet you think he's enough to land your boy. So, what, you realize Batum is mediocre but the Clippers are blind to his flaws?

But let's see: in Clipperland Jordan has Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and JJ Redick, and a team that knocked off San Antonio. Here he would have Damian (no Chris Paul), Aldridge (at least Griffin's equal - except in the respect of passing, which, y'know, might be important to the recipient of the passes) and Wesley, who is injured, and the team that managed to take one game from Memphis, MINUS a guy who actually played pretty well in the playoffs (and minus RoLo, presumably). I don't get it.
 
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