Clues lead to Wizards as trade partner for Blazers

[noknobs]

Bad contracts only matter when they prevent you from being able to make other moves, or if the owner can't afford them.

As for the first one, if the team is well over the cap anyway, having a bad contract on top of it all doesn't constrain them any further. They can still trade any of their other players just as well as they could without Arenas, they still can't sign free agents (except using the MLE) with or without Arenas and they can still sign draft picks with or without Arenas. In what way are the Blazers hurt, from a team-building perspective, by having Arenas' salary on their cap if they are well over the cap either way?

As to whether Paul Allen can afford it, I guess neither of us knows. The last time Portland fielded a contender, he was willing to go hugely over the cap. This time, he may be more wary, but I still think he'd be willing to pay one bad (hideous) contract. All the other contracts are likely to be good value.

I remember the last time we decided to bring in as much talent as possible, salary cap be damned, and just throw them all out on the court without giving a shit about chemistry. Guess I'm in the minority there.

 

[crowTrobot]

- Eastern Conference team - Quick on 1/29/09
- PG & SF that will make them a championship caliber team - Quick on 1/29/09
- Non-playoff team - Rice early Oct.
- Former all-star - Barrett on 12/29/08
- ages 26-28 - Wheeler on 1/6/09
- 3rd & 4th scoring options that will take the double teams off of Roy and Aldridge - Pritchard on 12/15/08

why are you assuming all those comments over 3 months are about the same trade?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yeah, like Darius Miles. I'm very familiar with the bad contracts we've taken on.

We'll see what they do, I shudder to think what would happen if some of you ran an organization.

I get your point about bad contracts, they are a burden for any franchise . . . but I'm wondering if you shuddered when KP took on Francis and his 13 mil/yr for 2 years and then cut him? Or when the Blazers took on Raef's contract?

Blazers have a history of dishing out big contracts and taking on big contracts for washed up players.

I think the analysis is would the Wiz need to give up someone like Butler to get rid of Arenas . . . I don't think so. But if the Wiz could rebuild with several young players by giving those two up . . . well maybe??? It really comes down to whether the Wiz feel they still have a good playoff team with a healty Arenas, Jamison and Butler . . . on paper it sounds good and don't think the wiz are ready to give up that fast on a team they just locked up this summer.

 

[B-Roy]

I get your point about bad contracts, they are a burden for any franchise . . . but I'm wondering if you shuddered when KP took on Francis and his 13 mil/yr for 2 years and then cut him? Or when the Blazers took on Raef's contract?

Blazers have a history of dishing out big contracts and taking on big contracts for washed up players.

I think the analysis is would the Wiz need to give up someone like Butler to get rid of Arenas . . . I don't think so. But if the Wiz could rebuild with several young players by giving those two up . . . well maybe??? It really comes down to whether the Wiz feel they still have a good playoff team with a healty Arenas, Jamison and Butler . . . on paper it sounds good and don't think the wiz are ready to give up that fast on a team they just locked up this summer.

They can keep Arenas, Jamison, and Butler AND obtain a top prospect this coming off-season in the draft.

 

[noknobs]

I get your point about bad contracts, they are a burden for any franchise . . . but I'm wondering if you shuddered when KP took on Francis and his 13 mil/yr for 2 years and then cut him? Or when the Blazers took on RAEF's contract?

Blazers have a history of dishing out big contracts and taking on big contracts for washed up players.

We were in complete rebuilding mode, because we were still recovering from all the bad contracts of the Whitless and Nash eras. We're in a totally different situation right now (a great situation).

 

[Minstrel]

I remember the last time we decided to bring in as much talent as possible, salary cap be damned, and just throw them all out on the court without giving a shit about chemistry. Guess I'm in the minority there.

Salary cap be damned indeed. Portland's problem last time around wasn't the salary cap, it was that the team blew it in a certain fourth quarter in a year when they were good enough to win it all and simply wasn't good enough in the years after that.

To me the lesson wasn't "avoid talent if it's available." It was "make sure you get elite talent." Oden/Aldridge/Roy/Butler would be pretty elite talent (and Bayless, Rudy and/or Batum could join them as elite talents). Arenas would just be the cost of doing business.

 

[Tortimer]

I get your point about bad contracts, they are a burden for any franchise . . . but I'm wondering if you shuddered when KP took on Francis and his 13 mil/yr for 2 years and then cut him? Or when the Blazers took on Raef's contract?

Blazers have a history of dishing out big contracts and taking on big contracts for washed up players.

I think the analysis is would the Wiz need to give up someone like Butler to get rid of Arenas . . . I don't think so. But if the Wiz could rebuild with several young players by giving those two up . . . well maybe??? It really comes down to whether the Wiz feel they still have a good playoff team with a healty Arenas, Jamison and Butler . . . on paper it sounds good and don't think the wiz are ready to give up that fast on a team they just locked up this summer.

Yes, that's true PA has been willing to take a bad contract to get his man but not at 111 million. He took 26-30 million over a couple years not 6 years. This is a 111 million on a player that has had 3 knee operations and isn't even close to coming back. Like I already posted there is nobody and I'm mean not even PA that would take that bad of a contract on a player until he is at least back playing and healthy.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Btw, Sheridan said that Washington is going to keep it's big 3. They are basically giving up this season but you won't get any star on the cheap from them.

I hope he is right. My arguement was that the trade was possible because if I was Washington I would want to dump Arenas' contract. I don't think he is worth it. i think he is a bit selfish. No doubt he is good, just a little to much concerned about his stats for me.

 

[RR7]

So in complete rebuilding mode, recovering from bad contracts, we showed a willingness, at such a sensitive time, to take on large contracts. When EVERY other team would most likely dump contracts, and not take on big deals, and we took on two big ones to either get a guy we wanted, or get rid of a guy. I think mentioning it in rebuilding mode works AGAINST your point.

 

[LOTBfan]

Woot, i am on Courtside with my email!

 

[B-Roy]

Arenas is a non-starter, IMO. But suppose Portland took back some contracts Washington might appreciate dumping. They don't have any huge contracts, really, beyond their big three, but Deshawn Stevenson and Darius Songaila have multi-year deals that combined would clear $8-9 million per year, for largely unproductive players.

Perhaps something along the lines of this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...8~851&teams=27~27~27~27~22~22~22~22&te=&cash=

It gives them a good player in Outlaw, a decent young player with upside in Webster and saves them a lot of money.

Pipe dream, perhaps, to get Butler without giving up a core player, but it depends on how much Washington wants some monetary relief after committing so much to Arenas and Jamison.

Minstrel, did you call into courtside?

 

[hasoos]

So just to throw this out there, have the Blazers ever been interested in RJ? I can't remember them being interested in him, and it doesn't make sense because the Bucks are actually in 8th place. But from what I have read, Herb Kohl (I think thats his name) who is the owner, has hit some financial straights and was looking at reducing payroll and or selling the team. So in some ways it makes sense.

 

[LameR]

They're watching...

 

[Tortimer]

So just to throw this out there, have the Blazers ever been interested in RJ? I can't remember them being interested in him, and it doesn't make sense because the Bucks are actually in 8th place. But from what I have read, Herb Kohl (I think thats his name) who is the owner, has hit some financial straights and was looking at reducing payroll and or selling the team. So in some ways it makes sense.

The rumor was that the Blazers wanted to trade Zbo for RJ but the deal fell though and we traded with the Knicks instead.

 

[LOTBfan]

I sent them that, was meaning to send the Arenas link so they would discuss that, but some times you mislink

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yes, that's true PA has been willing to take a bad contract to get his man but not at 111 million. He took 26-30 million over a couple years not 6 years. This is a 111 million on a player that has had 3 knee operations and isn't even close to coming back. Like I already posted there is nobody and I'm mean not even PA that would take that bad of a contract on a player until he is at least back playing and healthy.

It's funny, there is a poster who is of the opinion that Arenas has trade value by himself and there are other posters who think Arenas isn't even worth a Butler.

Out of curiostiy, how much have the Blazers paid Raef over the last three years . . . some thing like 45 mil?

You're right Gilbert doesn't jsut have a big contract, he has almost one of the biggest contracts, I'm assuming, as he jsut signed for a near max contract. But I'm thinking Arenas isn't all washed up and you get some value from him.

Anyways, I don't see it happening because I don't see the Wiz making such a drastic move (trading 2 of their best 3 players) . . . and I get the idea that the Blazers may be reluctant to take on that silly little contract of 111 MILLION.

 

[Minstrel]

Minstrel, did you call into courtside?

Heh, no. I don't live in Oregon. Why?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Woot, i am on Courtside with my email!

What was your question?

 

[LOTBfan]

I sent them mixums trade proposal, but they glossed over it, and didnt mention that i credited him either

 

[hasoos]

It's funny, there is a poster who is of the opinion that Arenas has trade value by himself and there are other posters who think Arenas isn't even worth a Butler.

Out of curiostiy, how much have the Blazers paid Raef over the last three years . . . some thing like 45 mil?

You're right Gilbert doesn't jsut have a big contract, he has almost one of the biggest contract I'm assuming as he jsut signed for a near max contract. But I'm thinking Arenas isn't all washed up and you get some value from him.

Anyways, I don't see it happening because I don't see the Wiz making such a drastic move (trading 2 of their best 3 players) . . . and I get the idea that the Blazers may be reluctant to take on that silly little contract of 111 MILLION.

That is a good point in many ways. If you are going to pay somebody for not playing, it might as well be a player that there is a chance they will come back and be awesome, instead of coming back and being...Raef Lafrentz....

 

[B-Roy]

Heh, no. I don't live in Oregon. Why?

That trade (Or something VERY similar) was proposed in an email. Although I think someone here did it.

And yea, someone admitted it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I sent them mixums trade proposal, but they glossed over it, and didnt mention that i credited him either

You should have mixed in an Office reference in the email (you're one here had me laughing)

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

If this trade went through, it would be like an NBA Live fantasy team. We would be so unbelievably talented, but Bob Whitsitt showed us chemistry counts too, and I don't think Arenas would fit here (even though I like him as a player)

 

[ucatchtrout]

Not hating. It felt like spam. That's not a stretch. Never been to the site. Didn't click on it. I thought it was spam!

Forget the rest of the site.

No one is suggesting you should leave your friends here and go elsewhere.

Click on the link and read Discos blog.

Do it because he is a great writer and because he put together a lot of research along with some inside scoop in an attempt to identify who the most likely trade partner our team might be negotiating with based on what has been said.

You may well look at his research and come up with a different conclusion BASED on what we know the Blazers have said they are looking for and who is available.

If you choose to engage in discussion of likely trade scenarios for our team Discos article is a good place to start.

He's done all the work for you.

 

[STOMP]

At this point, if the clues are correct than compiling all the data the last month still leads me to Washington. Even before Jason Quick said what he commented on last week, the data kept pointing to Washington.

Summary

• Washington is the most likely team to trade with Portland based on the clues
  • Eastern Conference team - Jason Quick
  • Impact players at PG & SF - Jason Quick
  • Non-Playoff team - Mike Rice
  • Ages 26-28 - Brian Wheeler
  • Former All-Star - Mike Barrett
• Gilbert Arenas, PG, age 27, all-star '05-'07
• Caron Butler, SF, age 28, all-star '07-'08
• Wizards save $101.38M not including luxury tax
• Most likely traded are Raef LaFrenz, Travis Outlaw, Jerryd Bayless and Ike Diogu

See the link for how the clues narrowed it down to Washington:
http://www.clubblazers.com/blazer-blogs/clues-lead-wizards-trade-partner-for-blazers-t1700.html

does the fact that Quick, Barrett and Rice never seem to see one of their trade speculations actually take place count as a clue that this ain't happening?

STOMP

 

[noknobs]

So in complete rebuilding mode, recovering from bad contracts, we showed a willingness, at such a sensitive time, to take on large contracts. When EVERY other team would most likely dump contracts, and not take on big deals, and we took on two big ones to either get a guy we wanted, or get rid of a guy. I think mentioning it in rebuilding mode works AGAINST your point.

Then you're not thinking.

In the case of Steve Franchise, We showed a willingness to trade for his bad contract because we were happy to get rid of Zach's contract and make room for Lamarcus. We then bought out Steve Francis for about 30 million. That's not even in the same ballpark as Gilbert's 111 million. And Fred Jones and Dan Dickau aren't exactly as valuable as guys like Bayless and Outlaw.

As for Raef, we acquired him in a draft-day trade that directly led to us being able to acquire Brandon Roy for Foye and got rid of Theo's contract in the process. These moves were made because we were rebuilding and undergoing a complete make-over. And they knew what they were doing, because they managed to get under the cap and gain a ton of young talent and a valuable expiring contract. Now you want to trade a bunch of those assets and gain a long-term bad contract?

To point at our actions from 2/3 years ago and suggest that that means we should do the same thing now is ridiculous. Anyhoo, have fun pretending it'll happen.

 

[Denny Crane]

See the SportsTwo menu at the top?

Sorry i missed your point?

Just pointing out we have better salary pages than any I've seen elsewhere, thought a shameless plug was in order ;-)

 

[Da_O]

First off, whoever said wait for Bosh that's not happening.

Not On The Market
Chris Bosh | Raptors
Bryan Colangelo, while admitting his 19-30 team has "underachieved" this year, said he would not entertain any trade offers for Chris Bosh.

"He's not on the trade market, he's not informing anybody here that he's got intentions to do something different and 2010 is a long ways away for everybody," said Colangelo. "Chris, as has been the case since I've been here, is the cornerstone of the franchise right now and that's how we're going to continue to look at it." -- Toronto Star

Second whoever said there wont be enough shots to go around. That's the same thing people were saying when the Celtics got Garnett and Pierce. Are situation would be a little different but the message still applies. Don't underestimate players desire to win a championship.

 

[THE HCP]

How did such a MORONIC thread topic get so many posts so fast!!!!!!!!?????????????

 

[B-Roy]

First off, whoever said wait for Bosh that's not happening.

Not On The Market
Chris Bosh | Raptors
Bryan Colangelo, while admitting his 19-30 team has "underachieved" this year, said he would not entertain any trade offers for Chris Bosh.

"He's not on the trade market, he's not informing anybody here that he's got intentions to do something different and 2010 is a long ways away for everybody," said Colangelo. "Chris, as has been the case since I've been here, is the cornerstone of the franchise right now and that's how we're going to continue to look at it." -- Toronto Star

Second whoever said there wont be enough shots to go around. That's the same thing people were saying when the Celtics got Garnett and Pierce. Are situation would be a little different but the message still applies. Don't underestimate players desire to win a championship.

I wasn't saying we'd be able to get him, just saying that if he were offered for LA+RLEC, you do it.