Collins for Swift is a BAD MOVE

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furnace

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...and I will be right about this.

Swift plays with less passion than even Vince Carter. And with Kidd being shipped out, who's going to be here to get Swift to work? The last thing the Nets need is another cancer.

And those of you Collins haters...he's barely playing now anyways, only matching up vs the tough centers and power forwards like Iglauskus and Shaq. Don't for get how Collins shuts down Jermaine O'Neal types as well. Even as recently as in Minnesota, Al Jefferson barely scored when Collins was in.

Getting Swift to play defense? Good luck...

The onliy reason to do this trade is if a 3rd team wanted Swift in a Kidd trade.
 
I'm with you on this one. You get more athleticism and talent in this trade, but I've yet to see what all the fuss is about with Swift. He's only had one impressive season and it was in a contract year. Everywhere else, he's been a disappointment. He plays with absolutely no desire and continually squanders his potential. And on top of that, he whines. I wouldn't want to be on the hook for that contract.
 
relax people, we traded crap for crap. and I don't think this move will have disastrous consequences for this franchise.
 
I agree, while Swift is the better player we already have Sean and Boone playing pretty well and Nenad on his way back. Now we don't have a man to man defender, Collins was able to shut down or at least contain other bigs and this is valuable in the playoffs, if we make it that far. However, this could be a sign of things to come. We don't need Collins if we don't plan on making the playoffs (Kidd trade). But I'm not sure why we would trade for Swift, he has a player option next season. Why not trade for a definite expiring contract?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 1 2008, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>...and I will be right about this.

Swift plays with less passion than even Vince Carter. And with Kidd being shipped out, who's going to be here to get Swift to work? The last thing the Nets need is another cancer.

And those of you Collins haters...he's barely playing now anyways, only matching up vs the tough centers and power forwards like Iglauskus and Shaq. Don't for get how Collins shuts down Jermaine O'Neal types as well. Even as recently as in Minnesota, Al Jefferson barely scored when Collins was in.

Getting Swift to play defense? Good luck...

The onliy reason to do this trade is if a 3rd team wanted Swift in a Kidd trade.</div>

This move potentially gets the Nets more ping-pong balls?
 
Assuming this deal is a one-for-one, I believe we can't trade Swift until the offseason, unless we trade him by himself.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 1 2008, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>...and I will be right about this.

Swift plays with less passion than even Vince Carter. And with Kidd being shipped out, who's going to be here to get Swift to work? The last thing the Nets need is another cancer.

And those of you Collins haters...he's barely playing now anyways, only matching up vs the tough centers and power forwards like Iglauskus and Shaq. Don't for get how Collins shuts down Jermaine O'Neal types as well. Even as recently as in Minnesota, Al Jefferson barely scored when Collins was in.

Getting Swift to play defense? Good luck...

The onliy reason to do this trade is if a 3rd team wanted Swift in a Kidd trade.</div>


collins PER is among the worst in the league, his defense has taken a huge hit. the game is more uptempo and collins wasnt playing as you said, no need to have 12 million on the bench for a scrub. al jefferson did score with collins on, FYI and JON is done and ilgauskau is not a guy who can carry a team. KG always destroys the **** out of collins, sheed will have his way, dwight dominated him, please tell me someone collins has defended well this season? his knees are shot and he can hardly move. he has no value to memphis, he was just the only offer they recieved for swift
 
FYI, this is not a franchise changing move. if swift sux, he'll sit and noody will care what he says like mcinnis.
 
Sorry, but when you have a chance to get rid of what is statiscally the worst player possibly EVER, and you may actually get a serviceable player in return, you don't blink. You say "sounds like a good deal" and try not to laugh before you hang up the phone.

Anyone who thinks Collins is worth keeping just doesn't understand the game of basketball. Playing with him on offense, you are playing 4 against 5. And defensively, he's nowhere near what he once was. Witness Chris Paul scoring a game winner on him. Witness him fouling a 3-point shooter in the final minute of the same game. Witness him bricking two freebies in the final minute vs. the Jazz. Witness the fact that he never blocks a shot, gets an assist or a steal. He's like a ghost! Even though he's asked to do so very little, he still manages to blow games! He is a TERRIBLE NBA PLAYER. And we were stuck with him for another whole year? This has been the worst contract in Nets history. God, It's been FOREVER!

You know what Furnace, I'll take my chances with Stro, and unless he goes on a killing spree, I think we'll be okay.

Pass me what you guys have been smoking.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 1 2008, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Assuming this deal is a one-for-one, I believe we can't trade Swift until the offseason, unless we trade him by himself.</div>

Yep. Have to wait two months if he's going to be used in a package deal, and by that time, the deadline will be long gone.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Feb 1 2008, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, but when you have a chance to get rid of what is statiscally the worst player possibly EVER, and you may actually get a serviceable player in return, you don't blink. You say "sounds like a good deal" and try not to laugh before you hang up the phone.

Anyone who thinks Collins is worth keeping just doesn't understand the game of basketball. Playing with him on offense, you are playing 4 against 5. And defensively, he's nowhere near what he once was. Witness Chris Paul scoring a game winner on him. Witness him fouling a 3-point shooter in the final minute of the same game. Witness him bricking two freebies in the final minute vs. the Jazz. Witness the fact that he never blocks a shot, gets an assist or a steal. He's like a ghost! Even though he's asked to do so very little, he still manages to blow games! He is a TERRIBLE NBA PLAYER. And we were stuck with him for another whole year? This has been the worst contract in Nets history. God, It's been FOREVER!

You know what Furnace, I'll take my chances with Stro, and unless he goes on a killing spree, I think we'll be okay.

Pass me what you guys have been smoking.</div>
collins gets more free passes on here then anyone. he blows at basketball but for some reason. we're supposed to expect that. that guy should be making the vet min. yet he raked in 24 million, jesus. its his contract that pisses the hell out of me and his crappy play that doesnt match
 
A few reasons why this trade will work in our favor.

1. Collins sucks. I don't care if Swift is a cancer, lazy and is overhyped. Collins is horrible. He will not be in the NBA 4 years from now. Swift will.

2. Swift has more trade value than Collins. I understand that it wont matter much next year because they're both on their last years of their deals next year, but he has a little more interest than Collins, who I'm sure will have none.

3. With Collins we know what we're getting. A HORRIBLE offensive player, and a decent defender. With Swift there is a 5% chance this trade may rekindle that flame inside of him and get that passion to play back in his game.

4. Once Kidd is gone none of this will matter. We are going to suck and our main concern will be what pick we have in the draft. Swift, Collins, etc....it wont matter and I'm fine with that.

5. If we suck, we suck. But the more players on the team who can't be controlled by Frank the better. More of a chance Frank will be removed too.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Feb 1 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift is a highflyer in NBA Live 2006. What was Collins? Nothing! Grizz got screwed.</div>
 
Traded a useless player for another one, whats the big deal?

The only thing that pisses me off is that a move like this just proves Thorn is a horrible GM. This is a shake-up move that would have worked before the Nets gave up and Kidd quit on us but as always Thorn makes a move when it doesn't matter.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Feb 1 2008, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, but when you have a chance to get rid of what is statiscally the worst player possibly EVER, and you may actually get a serviceable player in return, you don't blink. You say "sounds like a good deal" and try not to laugh before you hang up the phone.

Anyone who thinks Collins is worth keeping just doesn't understand the game of basketball. Playing with him on offense, you are playing 4 against 5. And defensively, he's nowhere near what he once was. Witness Chris Paul scoring a game winner on him. Witness him fouling a 3-point shooter in the final minute of the same game. Witness him bricking two freebies in the final minute vs. the Jazz. Witness the fact that he never blocks a shot, gets an assist or a steal. He's like a ghost! Even though he's asked to do so very little, he still manages to blow games! He is a TERRIBLE NBA PLAYER. And we were stuck with him for another whole year? This has been the worst contract in Nets history. God, It's been FOREVER!

You know what Furnace, I'll take my chances with Stro, and unless he goes on a killing spree, I think we'll be okay.

Pass me what you guys have been smoking.</div>

Basketball is not baseball. Statistics do not rule, especially not box score stats.

You are the one that does not understand basketball. He allows the team to execute sets and plays that would not be possible with Swift, who is of very low basketball IQ. On top of that, this locker room is already fragile. If Kidd does not get traded by the deadline, everyone will be walking on eggshells and that last thing the Nets need is Swift messing with the chemistry.

Basketball is a game about knowing and trusting your teammates. You cannot quantify situations by reducing variables like you can in baseball. Therefore, you cannot even use stats like PER. Wins is the only true judge. And judging by wins, the fast break/motion offense of the 01-04 Nets were the most effective with Kidd. Period.

I agree that Collins is not the player he was back then...his knees are bad and his free throw shooting has inexplicably fallen. However, he still provides more value than Swift as a specialist defender off the bench. Swift is a poor man's Sean Williams. If anything, it would make more sense to trade Magloire for Swift.
 
this trade makes no difference!!!!!!!!!! stop acting like this trade hurts this team, dammit. collins was hardly playing, for all the accolades you give the stiff, he sure as hell didnt provide them this season. he's a stump compared to the quick forwards of the game today. christ sake, never seen such a fanbase get riled over such a bum, not even laker fans with kwame
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 3 2008, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>this trade makes no difference!!!!!!!!!! stop acting like this trade hurts this team, dammit. collins was hardly playing, for all the accolades you give the stiff, he sure as hell didnt provide them this season. he's a stump compared to the quick forwards of the game today. christ sake, never seen such a fanbase get riled over such a bum, not even laker fans with kwame</div>

You could be right. This trade could make no difference. That's best-case scenario.

Worst-case scenario is that he fucks up with the chemistry, and drives Frank mad.
 
This would be a bad move if the Nets were competitive and trying to win.

Since that's not the case, it hardly matters.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would be a bad move if the Nets were competitive and trying to win.

Since that's not the case, it hardly matters.</div>

Collins would have been more of an asset to the Nets if his contract wasn't so steep, maybe half the price.

I agree though, as bad as the Nets are...this trade makes no difference.
 
Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.</div>

Now, now, Eddie Griffin is dead. Smith had one incident in 7.5 years. Even Grizzlies bloggers at 3shadesofblue noted that while he maybe be a "bum", he was not disruptive. He is not the pathetic, violent drunk that Griffin was. Nor is he the cancer that McInnis was before and during his stay with the Nets. He's an underachieving, hyperathlete.

Frank had stopped using Collins anyway. Twin was indeed underrated, but his knees are shot and without Krstic, he was an offensive liability the team could no longer afford.

This may be no more than a salary dump. The Nets save $400K in cap space this year on the exchange--enough to sign any player to minimum contract or to provide a cushion in some complicated deal involving Kidd. If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.

Besides, he is now a member of the Nets and I intend to give him a chance. Thorn has taken multiple chances over the past seven years. The failures are easy to recount, but Kidd and Carter were damaged goods on arrival and have contributed greatly to the team's success. The two Williams were well worth the gamble and no one thought Boone had the heart to be worth a first round pick.
 
Kidd will be swift's key to success, just like nash is to amare. if you let kidd go and do not get a good passer that can get the ball to swift then indeed it would be a bad move.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ Feb 4 2008, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd will be swift's key to success, just like nash is to amare. if you let kidd go and do not get a good passer that can get the ball to swift then indeed it would be a bad move.</div>

I waver on the possibility of Kidd being traded before the deadline. I don't think the chances are any better than 50-50.

Kobe Bryant demanded a trade, didnt get one and things worked out for him and the Lakers.

Andrei Kirilenko demanded a trade, didnt get one and things worked out for him and the Jazz.

Shawn Marion demanded a trade, didn't get one and things worked out for him and the Suns.

I do expect one more move before the deadline even if Kidd, Carter or Jefferson aren't dealt. It would be nice to see one of three young ne'er-do-well's join the Nets: J.R. Smith, Gerald Green or J. J. Reddick...someone, anyone who can shoot, PLEASE!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.</div>

Now, now, Eddie Griffin is dead. Smith had one incident in 7.5 years. Even Grizzlies bloggers at 3shadesofblue noted that while he maybe be a "bum", he was not disruptive. He is not the pathetic, violent drunk that Griffin was. Nor is he the cancer that McInnis was before and during his stay with the Nets. He's an underachieving, hyperathlete.

Frank had stopped using Collins anyway. Twin was indeed underrated, but his knees are shot and without Krstic, he was an offensive liability the team could no longer afford.

This may be no more than a salary dump. The Nets save $400K in cap space this year on the exchange--enough to sign any player to minimum contract or to provide a cushion in some complicated deal involving Kidd. If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.

Besides, he is now a member of the Nets and I intend to give him a chance. Thorn has taken multiple chances over the past seven years. The failures are easy to recount, but Kidd and Carter were damaged goods on arrival and have contributed greatly to the team's success. The two Williams were well worth the gamble and no one thought Boone had the heart to be worth a first round pick.

</div>

Even with all that said, I'm still iffy about this trade. Who's to say he'll even play this year, anyways?

I'm actually thinking/hoping that Swift was probably just a trade completed to make way for another trade.
 
Yeah this place certainly has the reputation of reviving/building people's careers. I'm willing to give him the Kidd-effect before I write him off as a 15th man. Hey maybe he could be the second coming of Mikki Moore? You know, without the jumpshot, but with lots of easy baskets.
 
I pretty much broke down Dave D.'s article on Swift. A background of sorts, to get to know Swift. If all of it is true (other than Van Gundy's little shindig there), well, we've got another typical Net player....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 4 2008, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In Swift, Nets acquire an untapped talent - Dave D'Alessandro - Star-Ledger

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If you wanted to learn about Stromile Swift, the logical place to start is to consult his oldest and closest friend in the NBA. That would be Pau Gasol -- a relationship that makes no sense whatsoever, but there you go. No one would have ever guessed that an urbane global icon from Spain and a timid, sensitive guy from Louisiana would be close, but the NBA is a different kind of place.</div>

Timid and sensitive? Wtf? Is that serious? Crazy.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Stro has never been very consistent," Gasol said bluntly. "He could put together streaks, play very good, and then all of a sudden he has a couple of games where he doesn't play all-out and he's totally absent. That's not good for the team."</div>

That's Stro for ya. Inconsistent. He'll go perfectly with the Nets!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, the reason Swift came so cheaply is that the Memphis Grizzlies were tired of him. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy -- no one will ever say that about the 28-year-old forward -- and the Nets are convinced that his suspension last week was a case of Memphis coach Marc Iavaroni trying to make an example of him.

Swift is a world-class athlete, everyone knows that. He simply doesn't have the work ethic to match it; one coach even suggested that Swift "change his approach" to everything he does, because his way was obviously not working.</div>

Ah, so he's not a malcontent. Just that...he has no work ethic. He's lazy, perfect! Just my type of guy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Still, here's what Van Gundy says now: "It's a great trade for the Nets," the ESPN analyst said yesterday. "He's an intelligent(???), nice guy. He's good in the open-court game. He lacks strength in a grind-it-out halfcourt game, but he's a good bench player who could average 10 and five."</div>

Van Gundy...on drugs. I'm convinced.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"With Stro, familiarity breeds good success," said Brendan Brown, who coached Swift for four years as an assistant in Memphis. "The more he plays, the better he is. We used to isolate him at the elbow and let him go against bulky (centers). He could beat them to the rim, make a pull-up, or just shoot it in their faces."

Defensively, he is a floater. He can block shots, but he has trouble with remembering schemes, and doesn't always run back as hard as he should -- or worse, he could be too busy celebrating dunks.</div>


Now, I'll listen to Brown. I think he knows what he's talking about. This is EXACTLY what I've seen from him whenever I see him play. The more he's on the court, the more he produces. He's quick, and he does have an okay jumper.

And he's retarded on defense. He doesn't know where he should be, and he's lazy, and is too busy with his birdman shit to actually hustle up the court with every other player. This is what we're bringing in. Can't say I'm all that happy about it.
</div>
 
Well at least now we have 4 fantastic dunkers on the team.

Jefferson
CArter
Williams
Swift
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>

If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.</div> </div>

I am pretty sure Kidd's contract does <u>not</u> have an opt-out clause for next year....he is fully guaranteed for 2008-2009.
 

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