Conan out, Leno to take back Tonight show

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it's_GO_time said:
With TIVO/DVR . . . lthe importance of late night programing is a thing of the past.
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The majority of Leno's aged audience has only rabbit ears, not a cable or dish connection, and think TIVO is a Latin American Timbale player. :drumroll:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/opinion/13dowd.html

Maureen Dowd, who specializes in calling losers losers, agrees with me on something. Wait for it. Once a Maureen, always a Maureen.

In a town where nobody makes less than they’re worth...How does Jeff Zucker keep rising and rising while the fortunes of NBC keep falling and falling?...

Zucker’s critics are ranting that first he killed comedy, losing the NBC franchise of Thursday night “Must See TV,” where “Seinfeld,” “Friends” and “Will & Grace” once hilariously reigned; then he killed drama, failing to develop successors to the formidable “ER,” “West Wing,” and “Law & Order”; then he killed the 10 o’clock hour by putting Jay Leno on at a time when people expect to be told a story; and then he killed late night by putting on a quirky redhead who did not have the bland mass-market appeal of Leno and who couldn’t compete with the peerless late-night comedian NBC had stupidly lost 16 years ago, David Letterman.
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To perfect his legacy he'd better get cracking on destroying sports, news, daytime, MSNBC, CNBC....

Certainly, Zucker greatly underestimated the deeply ingrained viewing patterns of older Americans, who have always watched the networks in a particular way. The kids come home, do their homework, the family has dinner. They’re in front of the TV by 8, and 8:30 is known as the dog-walking slot. At 9, it’s time for more comedy. As they get tired, they like to watch a fictional drama that leads into the real drama of the late local news. And then they like to laugh again so that those images of war or a local murder are not the last thing they see before bed.
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And now for where she agrees with me. It's my assessment that this is the worst TV error in at least 10 years! Then I must be right.

Consumed with the NBC game of musical late-night chairs, Hollywood machers [Yiddish for movers and shakers, I jlprk looked it up] play a game of trying to figure out the last time there has been a blunder of such outlandish proportions. Despite everything, Zucker just got his contract renewed for three years with the Comcast acquisition of NBC. “Not since J. Pierrepont Finch in ‘How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying’ has an executive failed upwards in so obvious a fashion,” marveled one TV writer.

Another called the Leno experiment the worst mistake made by anyone in television since an ABC Entertainment executive told the Chicago affiliate chief that the network didn’t want to own and broadcast the new daytime talk show hosted by a young black woman. Her name: Oprah Winfrey.
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Oh Maureen, from my very loins I yearn for you to cast your magical composition upon Oprah. You go, girl! Sic her!
 
^ Except that Conan is good enough and can connect with an audience... he just needs time and a proper lead-in. I think he has the mass appeal.
 
NBC has steadily declined from being the top network to the worst. At one point, they dominated the ratings with shows like Seinfeld, Friends, Frazier, ER and so on. They killed My Name is Earl, and two of their decent shows (Scrubs, Ugly Betty) have moved to ABC.

Meanwhile, Fox literally came from nowhere (a new network) to be the best, IMO. They are currently airing shows like House and 24. While the established networks were trying to shave costs by airing reality programming, Fox kicked their asses with American Idol, too.

I preferred Letterman to Leno at the time Carson retired, and never really watched Leno (or Letterman) after that fiasco. I'd have been pretty happy with Dennis Miller or Chevy Chase over either one. I do like Conan's show quite a bit.

If Conan moves to Fox, it'd be a 3-man competition for late night viewers and Conan and Fox might win. For certain, NBC will lose.
 
Denny Crane said:
NBC has steadily declined from being the top network to the worst. At one point, they dominated the ratings with shows like Seinfeld, Friends, Frazier, ER and so on. They killed My Name is Earl, and two of their decent shows (Scrubs, Ugly Betty) have moved to ABC.

Meanwhile, Fox literally came from nowhere (a new network) to be the best, IMO. They are currently airing shows like House and 24. While the established networks were trying to shave costs by airing reality programming, Fox kicked their asses with American Idol, too.

I preferred Letterman to Leno at the time Carson retired, and never really watched Leno (or Letterman) after that fiasco. I'd have been pretty happy with Dennis Miller or Chevy Chase over either one. I do like Conan's show quite a bit.

If Conan moves to Fox, it'd be a 3-man competition for late night viewers and Conan and Fox might win. For certain, NBC will lose.
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What's even worse is that some of the best shows NBC/Universal has developed--Monk, Burn Notice, In Plain Sight, etc.--have been left on USA instead of moving to NBC.
 
If Conan goes to Fox I will to, Not a Leno fan and I cant believe the way this is all going down. Leno wanted to retire so Conan took over, Leno changed his mind so they gave him his own show at 10pm.. Conan never had a fair chance, all the people who liked Leno didn't even have to give Conan a chance because Leno was still on the air at a earlier time slot...maybe the reason Conans ratings arnt as high as they could be...... ugh.
 
One other thing - I don't see how Leno ever goes back to the Tonight Show and not have it look stale, dated, 'been there, done that.'

And I think the 3 million people who watch Conan now are not going to very easily just switch again and watch the guy who stole Conan's job.
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...brien_could_be_off_the_air_next_week_as_.html

Conan O'Brien could be off the air next week, Jay Leno may take 'Tonight Show' reins: reports

Jay Leno is on track to retake the helm of the "Tonight Show" - and Conan O'Brien could be gone by next week, according to two new reports.

The moves would solve NBC's late-night woes, restoring Leno to 11:35 p.m. in his old hour-long slot.

At the same time, other sources, noted that the network can't announce any moves until its legal wrangling with the disgruntled O'Brien is solved.

Just as TMZ.com was reporting Thursday that Leno's back, People.com posted a story quoting an O'Brien source who insisted "Conan does not currently plan on doing any more new shows after next week."

At the same time, other sources, noted that the network can't announce any moves until its legal wrangling with the disgruntled O'Brien is solved.

Just as TMZ.com was reporting Thursday that Leno's back, People.com posted a story quoting an O'Brien source who insisted "Conan does not currently plan on doing any more new shows after next week."
 
Stevenson said:
One other thing - I don't see how Leno ever goes back to the Tonight Show and not have it look stale, dated, 'been there, done that.'

And I think the 3 million people who watch Conan now are not going to very easily just switch again and watch the guy who stole Conan's job.
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I sure won't.
 
maxiep said:
What's even worse is that some of the best shows NBC/Universal has developed--Monk, Burn Notice, In Plain Sight, etc.--have been left on USA instead of moving to NBC.
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That's right where I like them, as I'm an early AM watcher. :cheers:
 
I honestly can't believe Jay is doing this. How would he have felt if Johnny Carson had done this to him?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/business/media/15conan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Executive Leaps to Leno’s Defense

PASADENA, Calif. — The verbal battle in the late-night wars got louder Thursday as a top NBC executive struck back against on-air attacks on the network’s once and future “Tonight Show” host Jay Leno.

The executive, Dick Ebersol, chairman of NBC Universal Sports, said the reason for Mr. Leno’s return to NBC’s late-night roster after a short stint in prime time this season was a simple one: disappointing ratings for Conan O’Brien’s “Tonight Show.”

Referring to the pointed jokes made this week by Mr. O’Brien and David Letterman of CBS, Mr. Ebersol said it was “chicken-hearted and gutless to blame a guy you couldn’t beat in the ratings.”

He added that “what this is really all about is an astounding failure by Conan.” Mr. Ebersol is a veteran at the network, with a longstanding relationship with NBC Universal’s embattled chief executive, Jeff Zucker. Mr. Ebersol also has a deep link to the network’s late-night history, having been a creator of “Saturday Night Live,” and he has been frequently consulted on changes in NBC’s late-night lineup.

Ratings for Mr. O’Brien’s “Tonight Show” have dropped off sharply from what they had been under Mr. Leno. Mr. Leno himself experienced a prominent failure when he moved to prime time with a show in September that struggled so much that NBC’s affiliated stations demanded change.

But the change NBC decided on was to reinstate Mr. Leno at 11:35 each weeknight and nudge Mr. O’Brien back a half hour — an outcome he expressly rejected in a statement he issued earlier this week. (Since then, the two sides have been in intense negotiations to settle Mr. O’Brien’s contract. While no deal was expected Thursday night, one executive who has been connected to the talks said an agreement by Friday was possible.)

Separately, NBC announced on Thursday changes to its 10 p.m. hour to take effect after the Winter Olympics. It will introduce a new comedy reality show from Jerry Seinfeld called “The Marriage Ref” on Thursdays and add a new drama, “Parenthood,” as the 10 p.m. show on Tuesdays.

NBC will also move “Law & Order” to Mondays at 10, starting March 1. A sibling series, “Law & Order: SVU,” will go back to 10 p.m., where it once thrived, now on Wednesdays. The network will keep its “Dateline NBC” newsmagazine on Friday at 10 p.m.

Mr. Ebersol chided Mr. O’Brien for declining to take advice about how to adjust his show to the 11:35 p.m. slot from the style he had used on NBC’s 12:35 a.m. “Late Night” show for 16 years.

He said he had met personally with the host three weeks before he stepped behind the “Tonight” desk for the first time to urge him to take steps to expand the appeal he had built up in his “Late Night” years, saying that NBC hosts beginning with Johnny Carson had recognized the importance of making the show appealing first and foremost to cities in the central time zone like Chicago and Des Moines.

Mr. O’Brien’s camp, while steering clear of commenting on Mr. Ebersol’s criticism, confirmed the executive had met with the star and discussed potential changes in the show.

They have previously defended the performance of the show, saying seven months was not a fair shot for Mr. O’Brien to hone his comedic voice at the earlier hour especially in the face of reduced audiences for Mr. Leno’s 10 p.m. show and the late local newscasts that followed it.

Mr. Ebersol labeled that a “specious argument,” saying that for much of the last five years, Mr. Leno had much lower lead-in audiences than Mr. Letterman got at CBS and yet he always won in the ratings.

“I like Conan enormously personally,” Mr. Ebersol said. “He was just stubborn about not being willing to broaden the appeal of his show.”

Mr. Ebersol’s comments came after increasing assaults on Mr. Zucker and Mr. Leno across the late-night shows. Mr. O’Brien on Wednesday began turning to more pointed jokes about Mr. Leno in his monologue, though the most ferocious attacks came from a seeming bystander, Mr. Letterman.

Mr. O’Brien joked that young people should be inspired to believe that they can “do anything you want in life — unless Jay Leno wants to do it, too.”

Mr. Leno had his own fun during his monologue on Thursday, saying: “With all the controversy going on here at NBC, actually, ‘The Tonight Show’ with Conan O’Brien’s ratings have gone up. So you’re welcome.”

Mr. Ebersol said Mr. Leno had not pushed for any of the changes, not the original decision to guarantee Mr. O’Brien the show five years in advance, nor the plan to put Mr. Leno in prime time.

“Jeff and I are big boys,” Mr. Ebersol said, referring to Mr. Zucker. “When we do something big in the public forum and it doesn’t succeed, we know we’ll be the butt of criticism. But you don’t personally attack someone who hasn’t done anything.” In this case, he added, “we bet on the wrong guy.”

Mr. Leno dominated the late-night ratings since the mid-1990s, rarely losing even a night to Mr. Letterman. But NBC faced a dilemma in 2004 when Mr. O’Brien, at the time one of the hottest stars in television, had offers to jump to a different network. To prevent that — because Mr. Zucker and others concluded Mr. O’Brien represented NBC’s future in late night — Mr. O’Brien was offered “The Tonight Show” after a five-year wait.

The recent proposed shift to a later time slot has resulted in a surge of sympathy for Mr. O’Brien, stirring what is playing out as a growing youth revolt among the late-night audiences.

Mr. O’Brien’s fans among the younger segments of the late-night audience have rallied to his defense, forming support groups on the Internet and planning rallies outside his studio at Universal City in Los Angeles. And his ratings seem to be growing.

While overnight household ratings showed Mr. Letterman still ahead on Wednesday, Mr. O’Brien is seeing his best numbers there in months. Mr. Letterman had a 3.5 rating Wednesday night in those preliminary numbers, while Mr. O’Brien grew to a 3.0, well up from a recent average of about a 2.2.

More telling were early demographic numbers from the country’s top 24 cities: there, among viewers ages 18 to 49 — the central age group for most late-night advertisers — Mr. O’Brien seems to be thriving. He climbed to a 1.8 in that group Wednesday, well above the 1.0 he had recently been scoring.

But if Mr. O’Brien was soaring, Mr. Letterman was roaring Wednesday night, unleashing a torrent of biting commentary about NBC, and digging into his apparent lingering bitterness about how it threw him over for Mr. Leno in the early 1990s.

In his monologue, Mr. Letterman dealt slams on Mr. Leno’s grabbing for every host job imaginable, including one joke that had Mr. Leno climbing out of Merv Griffin’s grave. Mr. Letterman also made several references to an incident from that period when Mr. Leno had secretly listened in on an NBC executive meeting from a closet.

“They’re just striking out at Jay,” Mr. Ebersol said. “It seems like professional jealousy.”
 
It blows my mind there seems to be more interest in this petty battle than over the transformation of our health care system. Oh well. Let's all fiddle while Rome burns.
 
maxiep said:
It blows my mind there seems to be more interest in this petty battle than over the transformation of our health care system. Oh well. Let's all fiddle while Rome burns.
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it's because the health care battle has gone on for more than a year, JUST RECENTLY. If you didn't notice the attention span of the average american is...

HEY check this out!
 
westnob said:
it's because the health care battle has gone on for more than a year, JUST RECENTLY. If you didn't notice the attention span of the average american is...

HEY check this out!
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Why aim to be average?
 
I dont care if Conan Leaves... Another network would love to pick him up and I will watch him there... I wont ever watch the tonight show again, which is a shame because its been helping me get into shape.. I work out around then and while im doing my cardio time goes by fast when I spend most of the time laughing... guess I will watch Letterman till Conan gets a new show somewhere else.
 
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What if Conan Said, ‘Bye, NBC. Hello, Internet’?
David Carr’s media column this week looks at the state of affairs with late night television. He argues that the ratings drama surrounding “The Tonight Show” has nothing to do with Conan O’Brien or Jay Leno, but is instead a demonstration of the changing tide of consumer habits from television time slots to the Web.

I have to be completely honest, I didn’t even know “The Tonight Show” went on the air at 11:35 p.m. until the drama surrounding the shows’ time change happened recently. Just like Mr. Carr and his daughter, I sit at home watching Web clips of the show on my computer — as I do with all my television programming.

Over the last week I’ve enjoyed watching the hosts snipe back and forth as my friends shared links to specific clips, passing along the daisy chain of comedy to others.

Mr. O’Brien argued last week, in a letter to NBC and his fans, that “Some people will make the argument that with DVRs and the Internet, a time slot doesn’t matter. But with the ‘Tonight Show,’ I believe nothing could matter more.”

I’m sure nothing could matter more on spreadsheets and in traditional advertising meetings. But with the 18- to 34-year-old crowd, who have shown undaunted support for Mr. O’Brien, a time slot is as relevant as which brand of frying pan your favorite restaurants use to cook your meal — maybe it makes a difference in the kitchen, but 99 percent of the patrons just want good food.

I don’t envy Mr. O’Brien’s position. He took the helm of a steadfast, solid brand in a time of tumultuous change. As newspaper editors and music producers have also learned, the old models don’t apply to the next audience.

Mr. O’Brien’s youthful supporters won’t crowd around the television at a specific time, instead they go to YouTube and Gawker to watch their late-night television, and share their own commentary around each clip.

So here’s my advice to Mr. O’Brien: After he leaves NBC and spends a few months healing his wounds and pulling the troops back together, he should come back and make the Internet his time slot. He doesn’t need to abandon television — there are still millions of viewers who sit around the living room and tune in at a specific time — but he could take the battle in the direction the audience is clearly migrating: online.

It would not be easy, and there are more questions than answers — the cardinal query of how to finance a show like this comes to mind. Mr. O’Brien and his writers and support staff are paid high salaries, and the expenses associated with producing a high-quality show needed to attract celebrity guests quickly add up. But there are certainly advertisers that would jump at the chance to follow Mr. O’Brien’s show online and reach his target audience, as they have in the past with other big-name celebrities like Seth McFarlane.

There would also be lots of opportunities to try new financing models and break some of the traditional rules of television, something Mr. O’Brien has always done well in the past.

It’s clear we are approaching a fork in the road, and the road sign for the next generation clearly points to the Web. For Mr. O’Brien’s core audience, the time slot is being replaced by a URL.
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NBC will pay Conan $40-million to walk away and to keep his mouth shut about NBC for a while. He can still go get his own show within the year if he wants. He's accepted. Got to think a guy of his character will spread that around to his staff so they aren't stranded in between the end of The Tonight Show gig and whatever they have planned for the future--if a package isn't already in place for them as part of his agreement to step down.

The $40-million they have to pay him is more than what they expected to lose in advertising revenue because of the low ratings his show was drawing. Naturally the show is getting great ratings at the moment. Leno is expected to lose a big chunk of the 18-40 demographic as a result of this debacle. He basically has the baby-boomers left. Hard to imagine his ratings will go back to where they were... but I never understood his popularity in the first place so what do I know?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...11482898148788.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews
 
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NBC really doesn't know who they're fucking with. Our generation is all online. We organize quickly via twitter and facebook. That nationwide rally for Conan was just the beginning. We have nothing better to do than sit around online and bitch and we're vengeful. This could mean the end of NBC.
 
NBC had completely fucked themselves over. Conan was going to be on the Tonight Show for many many years. Sure the current older generation doesn't like him as much as we do, but they will soon be old and out of the late night picture. Eventually Dave will retire and a lot of his fans would have naturally moved over to the more established guy. Conan was probably 5 or less years away from having Leno type numbers, and he would have kept them until he retired.

Leno will give them short term success, but he has a short shelf life. Plus he does not appeal to the younger generation at all. Even if he doesn't retire for a while, his ratings will steadily decline because of that. I don't understand why NBC is choosing him.
 
Natebishop3 said:
NBC really doesn't know who they're fucking with. Our generation is all online. We organize quickly via twitter and facebook. That nationwide rally for Conan was just the beginning. We have nothing better to do than sit around online and bitch and we're vengeful. This could mean the end of NBC.
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It will not be the end of NBC, our generation also has a short attention span and memory unless you really tick us off. Like Tom Cruise.
 
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