Consolidation Trade

[KingSpeed]

Well everyone got what they wanted. We traded away our two best bench scorers, two of our best three point shooters, two of our best clutch shooters, one of our best playmakers, and one of our best players and getting his own shot for Marcus Camby. We were winning with Juwan Howard so if Camby isn't helping us in the playoffs, why did we do it? Everyone wanted Blake gone so that Rudy could get more minutes. Everyone wanted Outlaw gone so that Cunningham and Webster could get more minutes. Well, it happened. We've traded our bench away. The idea that we needed less good players was ridiculous and suddenly, we're left with nothing. Three of our rotation players are old and one of our bench players is a 2nd round pick. What happened to our young, talented, and deep team? It's gone.

Finally, why did we rush to sign Camby?? Right in the middle of a playoff series?? Do KP and PA have that little faith in Greg Oden?

Meanwhile, Durant scores 29 points and grabs 19 rebounds.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm glad that we have Marcus Camby. I'm glad that Blake and Outlaw are gone. If you think that they were the difference b/w a "young, talented and deep" team and something worse than that, it's not worth writing this post.

"We're left with nothing?" We traded Blake and Outlaw for Camby. He's still here, as far as I've seen. What do you mean, Nothing?

I find it odd that you think we were "winning with Howard", but I guess that makes sense--you seem to love Blazers starters with sub-10 PERs and little defensive capability. Howard and Blake are anchors of the "All-KingSpeed Stat" team...where good feelings and college chumminess mean more than actually putting the ball in the basket and stopping your opponent from doing the same against you.

Neither Travis nor Blake was playing center for us. Webster is more than filling the "void" you seem to think Travis left...with the added bonus that he plays defense and doesn't usually kill us with Cretin-Level BBIQ. Jerryd did a passable Blake impression with his FT "Clutchness" in game One, but didn't actually lose us the game. We didn't trade Blake to get Rudy more minutes--we traded him b/c we had Miller and Bayless and NO CENTER. As an added bonus, Rudy's a better player and younger than Blake.

I find it odd also that you complain about us not having a young and talented team anymore, when one of the guys we traded was almost 30 and the other is having his minutes at the B/u PF taken by a younger, more efficient 2nd-round pick.

We "rushed" to sign Camby in large part b/c we realized he was going to be a good fit--if he went to the market we'd lose him for nothing b/c of all the cap space out there, and b/c he seemed to be open to staying. Don't know about you, but most decent GMs like stockpiling decent big men. Negotiations started 2 weeks before he signed it--not "in the middle of a playoff series".

Blake + Outlaw production < Bayless+Webster+DC production. Blazers without Camby are probably not making the playoffs. Blazers with Camby have.

KP looks more like a genius every day after the Camby trade.

 

[Natebishop3]

We could use Outlaw right now. I admit that. Blake.... I don't know. But we wouldn't be anywhere without Camby right now. Amare would be eating us alive.

 

[illmatic99]

Let's hope PA thinks of KP as a genius as well.

http://twitpic.com/1hovcc

 

[BrianFromWA]

Since I know you're a PPG fan, Steve's career playoff high is 9 ppg (7 with DEN). Outlaw's last year was 9 ppg. Webster's at 12 right now. Bayless is at 13.

And I'm pretty sure that neither Blake nor Outlaw would be stopping Hill and Richardson with their "scrappy" D.

 

[KingSpeed]

Blake doesn't hesitate to shoot when he's open. And he would knock down some shots for us when the Suns play zone. Has everyone forgotten Blake's 20/10 game against the Suns? In PHoenix?? Or how about Blake's shooting barrage on Christmas Day? This guy had a triple double for the Clippers on closing night. We miss the guy. Point blank. And Outlaw was also a great three point shooter for us. And he can get his own shot. And he's WILLING to shoot. You don't have to beg Outlaw to shoot and make his presence felt on the court.

 

[KingSpeed]

Since I know you're a PPG fan, Steve's career playoff high is 9 ppg (7 with DEN). Outlaw's last year was 9 ppg. Webster's at 12 right now. Bayless is at 13.

And I'm pretty sure that neither Blake nor Outlaw would be stopping Hill and Richardson with their "scrappy" D.

Blake actually plays pretty great D and Outlaw's D was underrated in Portland. Also- yes, Webster and Bayless have played well but they can't do it by themselves! They need Blake and Outlaw's help! BADLY.

Look- if Camby wins a playoff series for us, it's a win. BUt if he doesn't, we just gave up our depth for a player we don't NEED. Unless, that is, you've already given up on Oden.

 

[KingSpeed]

By the way, I didn't hear any MARCUS CAMBY cheers last night! Remember when he scored 30 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in one night?? He got paid and that's that. We'll probably never see the likes of that again. Fuck me.

 

[BrianFromWA]

You brought up three nights from a season of 82. I'll bring up four.

@CLE (kind of a big game for us, wouldn't you say?) 0-4, 4 TO's in 36 minutes. Oh yeah, we lost.
next game, @ MIL. 3-10, 1-7 3pt, 7pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs. Oh yeah, we lost. Oh yeah, he stopped starting after that game.
@ BOS 2-7, 5pts in 21 min. 0 ast, 1TO. Oh yeah, we lost.
We let him start again v. NOH. 1-5 frm 3, 9pts, 2 ast, 0 TO's. Oh yeah, we lost.

Even with the 3 stellar games you point out (and him upping his 3pt% playing garbage time for the Clips) he still had a PER of 11. that's not what an unbiased someone might call "good".

EDIT: I hadn't read your last post before writing this one. I get that you say you'd like them IN ADDITION to Webster and Bayless, but where would their minutes come from? Webster, and Bayless. And imho the smart play is to give the PG minutes to Miller and Bayless before Blake, and the SF minutes to Batum and Webster before Travis. Now, if you're saying to bench LMA and Howard to have Travis play more, you probably wouldn't get an argument from me.

 

[KingSpeed]

You give minutes to whomever is playing well that night. The current guys are consistent enough to handle consistent minutes. Yank people in and out until you find the right combo. With Outlaw and Blake, Rudy wouldn't have had to play much.

 

[LameR]

Keep trolling ks.

 

[craigehlo]

We still lose this game with Outlaw and Blake. Neither of those guys takes it to the rim, defends the pick-and-roll or rebounds particularly well. Those are the same issues everyone on this roster has.

 

[TripTango]

KingSpeed, don't you think part of the issue here might be that you VASTLY underrated Phoenix coming into this series, and especially after game 1?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Pining for Outlaw and Blake is really not the answer to anything; you're exchanging one set of problems for another. And that whole "This is a young, talented, deep team" was mostly overblown in my opinion ... it was all based on the supposition, that guys like Rudy, LMA and Oden were going to be major difference makers and the only player out of those three that probably still has the potential to be a major impact player in the league is Oden, but he can't stay on the court long enough to get to that point.

Oh well, hopefully KP and the brain trust are looking at some of these guys with a cold, unemotional, 'bottom line' mentality.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

By the way, I didn't hear any MARCUS CAMBY cheers last night! Remember when he scored 30 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in one night?? He got paid and that's that. We'll probably never see the likes of that again. Fuck me.

Get some sleep, Eric.

 

[Blaze01]

Are you kidding? Is this a joke? Marcus Camby isn't the problem here, far from it.....

The problem is lack of offense...Quite frankly Aldridge isn't the All Star caliber or 2nd wheel player we thought he was...

Rudy Fernandez, hell I am not even sure he is a legit NBA bench player right now

and guys like Bayless & Martell just are not talented enough, the effort is there, the production is WAY too inconsistent....

How funny it is to me that you seemingly have TOTALLY forgotten Travis Outlaw's dissapearance act in last year's playoffs? He sure tore up the league when he got traded to the Clippers didn't he?

Outlaw would not have made a difference...all you would be doing is placing his name right next to Bayless\Martell one night...effort...err..shot attempts are there, results are not...or next to Aldridge\Rudy next, as in he dissapears when the team needs him most....

 

[RR7]

 

[Tortimer]

Well everyone got what they wanted. We traded away our two best bench scorers, two of our best three point shooters, two of our best clutch shooters, one of our best playmakers, and one of our best players and getting his own shot for Marcus Camby. We were winning with Juwan Howard so if Camby isn't helping us in the playoffs, why did we do it? Everyone wanted Blake gone so that Rudy could get more minutes. Everyone wanted Outlaw gone so that Cunningham and Webster could get more minutes. Well, it happened. We've traded our bench away. The idea that we needed less good players was ridiculous and suddenly, we're left with nothing. Three of our rotation players are old and one of our bench players is a 2nd round pick. What happened to our young, talented, and deep team? It's gone.

Finally, why did we rush to sign Camby?? Right in the middle of a playoff series?? Do KP and PA have that little faith in Greg Oden?

Meanwhile, Durant scores 29 points and grabs 19 rebounds.

We could get at least one back maybe both if we wanted and still have Camby. I wouldn't want either back. Maybe Blake if we use him off the bench but rather not. We were winning with Howard and we even won better with Camby and both those guys traded. That is the regular season in the playoffs you need to even play harder and all teams play hard(except maybe us). That is one of the best things I liked about Nate is that he got us to play hard almost every game in the regular season. The NBA season is long and many teams take a night off or don't play that hard and IMO that is why we won many of those games by out hustling them. In the playoffs you need everyone to play with more intensity amd smarts. We saw last year even with two of the better defenders Roy still raised his game againts the Rockets. Outlaw faded and played the same or even softer in the playoffs.

If a team was coming into Portland with Camby and Miller as their best two players we wouldn't be worried at all. They are good players but not good enough to be the team best players. The truth is unless Oden ends up being 1-3 best centers in the league we are at best a playoff team but always will have a hard time making past the first round. I know you were on Oden early this year even when he was playing well and learning because maybe we could have one a game if we played Joel more or some other nonsense. This is the same with Camby next year even though I love his game. I think we should probably start Camby early in the year but if it looks like Oden is playing well and doesn't get injured again we have to make him the starter. Roy has to be healthy and play like he did a couple years ago and Oden needs to be a top 1-3 center if we have any hope of being a championship contender.

Sorry about the long post but we don't need Outlaw for sure and probably not Blake unless we use him as a spot bench guy. I like both KP and Nate but wouldn't be that upset if either left and I'm hoping at least Nate only signs another one year contract.

 

[maxiep]

What happened to all our depth? Right now, it's starting. We used to win games with our bench. Now, we're playing guys who are 11-15 on the roster regular minutes.

 

[OddEnormous]

Well everyone got what they wanted. We traded away our two best bench scorers, two of our best three point shooters, two of our best clutch shooters, one of our best playmakers, and one of our best players and getting his own shot for Marcus Camby. We were winning with Juwan Howard so if Camby isn't helping us in the playoffs, why did we do it? Everyone wanted Blake gone so that Rudy could get more minutes. Everyone wanted Outlaw gone so that Cunningham and Webster could get more minutes. Well, it happened. We've traded our bench away. The idea that we needed less good players was ridiculous and suddenly, we're left with nothing. Three of our rotation players are old and one of our bench players is a 2nd round pick. What happened to our young, talented, and deep team? It's gone.

Finally, why did we rush to sign Camby?? Right in the middle of a playoff series?? Do KP and PA have that little faith in Greg Oden?

Meanwhile, Durant scores 29 points and grabs 19 rebounds.

That's the worst post I've ever read on this forum.

The worst.

 

[DaRizzle]

Do KP and PA have that little faith in Greg Oden?

Yes

 

[HOWIE]

Blake doesn't hesitate to shoot when he's open. And he would knock down some shots for us when the Suns play zone. Has everyone forgotten Blake's 20/10 game against the Suns? In PHoenix?? Or how about Blake's shooting barrage on Christmas Day? This guy had a triple double for the Clippers on closing night. We miss the guy. Point blank. And Outlaw was also a great three point shooter for us. And he can get his own shot. And he's WILLING to shoot. You don't have to beg Outlaw to shoot and make his presence felt on the court.

But Eric, if Portland didn't make that trade it would all be a moot point......without Camby Portland doesn't make the playoffs. Portland needs to address the outside shooting this offseason, they need a shooter(s) big time.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm not positive of that...we could have a prime Ray Allen at the 2 and prime Reggie Miller at the 3, and if our "low post threats" are LMA (the way he's playing right now) and Camby then RayRay and Reggie aren't getting off.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I am a little disappointed that Greg isn't in the arena for the playoffs to support his team. It's the least he can do at this point.

 

[southnc]

I agree trading Blake & Outlaw sent our best bench players away. Blake especially - the Phoenix coach was quoted as saying Blake was a "Suns Killer" and was happy that he was traded away. IIRC, both Miller & Bayless had their biggest scoring games with Blake playing the key "wingman" role for both of them. Outlaw was injured most of the season and so I cannot pass judgment on him.

Regardless, as others have indicated, this team desperately needed a C and Camby filled a serious void on this team. I'm sure it was a tough decision, but you have no chance w/o a true center. In addition to that, since both Blake & Outlaw are UFAs, the Blazers can always get them back, minus Bird rights.

Bayless has been playing well (as a SG) and Rudy has been atrocious.

 

[Minstrel]

Blake actually plays pretty great D

Hehe. You still got it, KingSpeed.

 

[MARIS61]

"We're left with nothing?" We traded Blake and Outlaw for Camby. He's still here, as far as I've seen. What do you mean, Nothing?

I think he means nothing that can stop the Suns, who we had NO TROUBLE stopping before the trade.

I really wouldn't dream of disagreeing with such an obvious observation. This team is at least 25% less of a team than it was before the trade. I love Camby, but he's no intimidator, more of a finesse center, and we are barely at 1/2 strength at PG until we find someone who can play team defense as well as Steve does. Andre and Jerryd are like wisps of smoke when it comes to defense. I doubt Nash even cares that they are on the court.

 

[MARIS61]

What's with the huge gap of blank space in all the posts? This new format is wearing out my scroll finger.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But Eric, if Portland didn't make that trade it would all be a moot point......without Camby Portland doesn't make the playoffs. Portland needs to address the outside shooting this offseason, they need a shooter(s) big time.

We went 18-8 after Camby joined the team, finishing 8 games ahead of Houston. You honestly believe that if we don't trade for Camby, we go 10-16 over the final 26 games of the season?