OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (12 Viewers)

[Orion Bailey]

and once again you derail a thread by complaining about posters.

your opinion... which is usually in the minority...

And this post of yours put the thread back on track that I ssooo derailed ,by trying to have an honest up and up convo that you are incapable of having?

Yeah. This forum hasnt been ruined by your and a couple others behaviours. lol.



when I started here there were all sorts of people posting all the time. They still were when you showed up.

Now its about 6-8 of the same people all day every day. Just an echo chamber that if anyone disagrees with they are demeaned and chastised and not taken seriously.
You are at the heart of this issue. You are one of the main reasons why there are only half a dozen daily posters instead of dozens


Nothing you say to counter this will be relevant, because I know this through conversations with many people including some mods.

I wouldn't have said anything either, but since your insistence is to try to place blame on others.... its time you get force fed the truth about your behavior and posts on here.

I guarantee if I leave here forever, not much would change, but if you left forever there would be a mad rush of a bunch of new posts form people who cant breathe in here because you suck the life out of every conversation.

I cant believe I even defended you in some private convos...

But Im not perfect...



Oh and if you think saying its hard to have an up and up convo is derailing or ruining a thread, you are the biggest snowflake i've ever met. Or hope not to meet.....


Now go cry to the mods......HAHAHA

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Lol. Not going down the rabbit hole...
So you are claiming the article I posted and read back a couple months ago were false?

Got it.

And yes, I know what math is. But no one that I know of, certainly not in this confo said anything about a death count, so that statement is irrelevant is my point to saying "I don't know where came up with", But I like your assumption that I didnt know it was math.

That's cute.


No one claimed victory of anything other than stemming the emergency services impact, which has been done.

Who is saying everything should be shitcanned? Because one is not in favor of the current guidelines, does not equate to that person wanting zero guidelines. That should be obvious... but apparently not? .....


I still find it very hard to have an up and up conversation around here.......


I asked a question based on a post. It was a disagree or agree question. A yes or no question.

Look at the responses....

My unwanted advice is to look at your own situation and see what normal is for you and yours before deciding what everyone's normal should be.

Then after deciding what normal for you is go out and see what things are like in your own community.

For example, your mom is still in a nursing home right? (Sorry if you've updated us on this and I missed it.) Are you allowed to see your mom in person yet? Is she allowed to leave yet, like you taking her to lunch nearby.

Then, see if you can volunteer at your local food bank for an afternoon or two. That will put you in direct contact who those who are most hurt by this and in a way that is helping.

IMO it's not about others telling us to flip a switch and magically everything is back to normal. It's about all of us trying to find ways to make things a little better, and a little better, and a little better, until finally things are to a point that we've getting through this together.

 

[wizenheimer]

I still find it very hard to have an up and up conversation around here.......

has it occurred to you that maybe you have some responsibility for that?

I asked a question based on a post. It was a disagree or agree question. A yes or no question.

Look at the responses....

could be that you don't get to limit the flow and direction of a discussion. I can't lock people into yes/no and neither can you. We aren't limited to a script here
****************************************************

let me suggest that the "goal(s)" from 2 to 3 months ago have evolved. 3 months ago there were 0 deaths. Two months ago there were 309 deaths. Look at where we are today:



our assumptions and understandings have evolved. 3 months ago we thought there was going to be a shortage of ventilators; a massive shortage. That was wrong. But the other side of that is a month ago there forecasts on only 60,000 deaths by August 4. We hit that mark by the end of April, and will probably hit the 100K mark by the end of this week. The goals have changed, as they should as the pandemic evolves

 

[Minstrel]

"...Now peak resource use is supposedly upon us, but most hospitals are far from overflowing. Thanks to expansion of ICU wings, postponement of non-life-saving care, and overestimation of the number of people who would need to be admitted, some hospitals actually have too little to do rather than too much. Isn’t this strong evidence that the quarantines can be loosened? Even just a partial economic restart could make a significant difference in the lives of people who have lost their jobs or have seen their incomes drop..."

The fact that some hospitals have "too little to do" tells us little, though. This isn't some predictable flow process, where if certain hospitals have extra capacity, we can ease restrictions just enough to fill them up. You loosen restrictions, you may suddenly (and by "suddenly" I mean a few weeks after you make that decision) have the hospital go from underutilized to flooded with cases and forced to resort to triage. That's kind of the nature of an incredibly infectious disease.

And that's to say nothing of that fact that if there are some hospitals in Idaho or Wyoming that are under capacity, that means nothing for Portland or San Francisco or New York, really.

 

[Orion Bailey]

My unwanted advice is to look at your own situation and see what normal is for you and yours before deciding what everyone's normal should be.

Then after deciding what normal for you is go out and see what things are like in your own community.

For example, your mom is still in a nursing home right? (Sorry if you've updated us on this and I missed it.) Are you allowed to see your mom in person yet? Is she allowed to leave yet, like you taking her to lunch nearby.

Then, see if you can volunteer at your local food bank for an afternoon or two. That will put you in direct contact who those who are most hurt by this and in a way that is helping.

IMO it's not about others telling us to flip a switch and magically everything is back to normal. It's about all of us trying to find ways to make things a little better, and a little better, and a little better, until finally things are to a point that we've getting through this together.

Never disagreed.

I never said open everything up 100%. That was other antagonistic, angry sounding(cause I asked a question?) posters putting words in my mouth like usual, causing issues with the conversation, then blaming me for the issues. lol

How do you know I haven't done some or most of what you outlined?

She has actually been allowed to leave the whole time, but if she does, she cant go back.

Many details on all of this and I can answer if you are truly wanting a valid response, but I will need to answer it later to go into a bit more depth. im at work now, so its just quick draw mcgraw style right now.

 

[Orion Bailey]

has it occurred to you that maybe you have some responsibility for that?



could be that you don't get to limit the flow and direction of a discussion. I can't lock people into yes/no and neither can you. We aren't limited to a script here
****************************************************

let me suggest that the "goal(s)" from 2 to 3 months ago have evolved. 3 months ago there were 0 deaths. Two months ago there were 309 deaths. Look at where we are today:

View attachment 31572

our assumptions and understandings have evolved. 3 months ago we thought there was going to be a shortage of ventilators; a massive shortage. That was wrong. But the other side of that is a month ago there forecasts on only 60,000 deaths by August 4. We hit that mark by the end of April, and will probably hit the 100K mark by the end of this week. The goals have changed, as they should as the pandemic evolves

To answer your first question . Has it occurred to you that i'm about the ONLY person who admits being a part of the issue? Which is a large part of my issue? When will you fess up? or will you?

To respond to your second question.. Thank you.

Finally a valid response instead of cussing and demeaning statements trying to make someone look stupid...... then trying to point at them as the source of conversational conflict.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The fact that some hospitals have "too little to do" tells us little, though. This isn't some predictable flow process, where if certain hospitals have extra capacity, we can ease restrictions just enough to fill them up. You loosen restrictions, you may suddenly (and by "suddenly" I mean a few weeks after you make that decision) have the hospital go from underutilized to flooded with cases and forced to resort to triage. That's kind of the nature of an incredibly infectious disease.

And that's to say nothing of that fact that if there are some hospitals in Idaho or Wyoming that are under capacity, that means nothing for Portland or San Francisco or New York, really.

Kinda my point though is that this is not predictable and we cant live life in fear of the unknown. We never would have come out of the cave if we lived life like that.

 

[Minstrel]

Kinda my point though is that this is not predictable and we cant live life in fear of the unknown. We never would have come out of the cave if we lived life like that.

That's too simplistic, IMO. We can't know everything, but we have some knowledge, some understanding of the science. It's not an either/or. Most regions are moving into Phase 2 of re-opening--it's a combination of reducing the spread and restoring some social and economic activity. So since you say you're not advocating just fully re-opening everything, I'm not sure what you are saying should be different.

 

[CupWizier]

To answer your first question . Has it occurred to you that i'm about the ONLY person who admits being a part of the issue? Which is a large part of my issue? When will you fess up? or will you?

To respond to your second question.. Thank you.

Finally a valid response instead of cussing and demeaning statements trying to make someone look stupid...... then trying to point at them as the source of conversational conflict.

You chose some words in your posts that were factually wrong and posters corrected you on that. We have not eradicated this virus and in fact we are far from it. Rather than enter a discussion you start attacking back and blaming everyone else. And no, you aren't the ONLY person that admits you are part of the issue and in fact, I often see you trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be allowed in the forum. You bring a lot on by your words and actions

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's too simplistic, IMO. We can't know everything, but we have some knowledge, some understanding of the science. It's not an either/or. Most regions are moving into Phase 2 of re-opening--it's a combination of reducing the spread and restoring some social and economic activity. So since you say you're not advocating just fully re-opening everything, I'm not sure what you are saying should be different.

Man. Even you? Did you follow how this conversation came about? I was assumed that I just wanted everything open by one of the typical demeaning posters here who blame everything on eveyrone else. Then a few others jumped in and piled on.

Here....Ill quote it all for you to follow easier....

I don't believe the stay at home order was to eradicate the virus, but instead slow it down so as not to overwhelm our medical facilities and allow time to come up with a game changer.

And this was accomplished with great success. Time to let life move on now.

yeah, let's just go about business as usual. The pandemic is over.

What you said the goal was, has been accomplished. Do you disagree?

Never did my comment of "Time to let life move on now" say "open everything back up to 100% normal." That statement was to mean, the same lockdown we have had can be changed, we can move on from it into another phase...

But the response I got was.... yeah. Instead of asking me to clarify for lack of confusion, just assumed and tried to infer im stupid for "wanting to just open everything back up".


You following along now?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How do you know I haven't done some or most of what you outlined?

I don't know what you've done or not done.

Dude, I'm not trying to start shit with you. Not criticizing you.

If you want to tell me I'm full of shit and to fuck off, go for it, lol.

 

[calvin natt]

When you walk into a grocery store and see people with masks on vs people without a mask, why is it I think the mask-less are Republicans? Honestly, what’s your assumption when you see those with vs without? And why is it a republican thing to believe masks are dumb?

 

[Orion Bailey]

You chose some words in your posts that were factually wrong and posters corrected you on that. We have not eradicated this virus and in fact we are far from it. Rather than enter a discussion you start attacking back and blaming everyone else. And no, you aren't the ONLY person that admits you are part of the issue and in fact, I often see you trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be allowed in the forum. You bring a lot on by your words and actions

No... factually incorrect. Refer to the post above this that has the quotes. What did I sdy that was factually incorrect?

I love when people say... "you said stuff".... but cant quote it.

Or you can quote the fallacy or stop making excuses for your conversational style.

 

[wizenheimer]

If you want to tell me I'm full of shit and to fuck off, go for it, lol.

isn't that SOP around here? especially when combined with some dog meme?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't know what you've done or not done.

Dude, I'm not trying to start shit with you. Not criticizing you.

If you want to tell me I'm full of shit and to fuck off, go for it, lol.

Then you shouldn't pile onto the shitpile being formed by people trying to say I said things I didnt. lol.

 

[Orion Bailey]

When you walk into a grocery store and see people with masks on vs people without a mask, why is it I think the mask-less are Republicans? Honestly, what’s your assumption when you see those with vs without? And why is it a republican thing to believe masks are dumb?

Then your biased assumption would be incorrect. I would look into that.

I ordered mine as soon as I could and My wife and I have been wearing them since the day they showed up.

 

[CupWizier]

No... factually incorrect. Refer to the post above this that has the quotes. What did I sdy that was factually incorrect?

I love when people say... "you said stuff".... but cant quote it.

Or you can quote the fallacy or stop making excuses for your conversational style.

I have no interest in getting into it with you, but you seemed have taken issue with my post by claiming the covid has been eradicated. Do you know what that word even means?

 

[lawai'a]

My unwanted advice is to look at your own situation and see what normal is for you and yours before deciding what everyone's normal should be.

Then after deciding what normal for you is go out and see what things are like in your own community.

For example, your mom is still in a nursing home right? (Sorry if you've updated us on this and I missed it.) Are you allowed to see your mom in person yet? Is she allowed to leave yet, like you taking her to lunch nearby.

Then, see if you can volunteer at your local food bank for an afternoon or two. That will put you in direct contact who those who are most hurt by this and in a way that is helping.

IMO it's not about others telling us to flip a switch and magically everything is back to normal. It's about all of us trying to find ways to make things a little better, and a little better, and a little better, until finally things are to a point that we've getting through this together.

on the food bank part, we on the big island are supposed to recieve some of the produce purchased by the dept of agriculture. we will be grabbing 70@35# boxes of melons and fruits for the first delivery for our church's community outreach,kids and families in need. very gratifying for my soul to be a part of it.

 

[calvin natt]

Then your biased assumption would be incorrect. I would look into that.

I ordered mine as soon as I could and My wife and I have been wearing them since the day they showed up.

I’m not saying every republican doesn’t wear a mask. I’m saying that people who don’t wear masks I would wager (my opinion) are republican. It’s like not every trump fan is racist. But every racist sure seems to be a trump fan.

 

[yankeesince59]

Unbelievable....unfuckingbelievable.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I have no interest in getting into it with you, but you seemed have taken issue with my post by claiming the covid has been eradicated. Do you know what that word even means?

If you have no interested, then why the hell are you quoting me and asking me a question?


But to play along, Yes I know what it means, but its irreverent to the question I presented, that you ignored.

Now... Don't ask me anything else unless you are willing to answer my question to you about agreeing or disagreeing. Cause don't you demand that of everyone else? get all mad if they ask you a question without answering yours? Or are you a do as I say and not as I do guy?


And would it be thin skinned or snow flakey to say someone takes issue with a post by simply making a comment and asking if you agree or disagree? I mean are we in the third grade, and consider any thing not agreeing with us as being an issue? lol.



@SlyPokerDog !!!!LOL....


I tried again . I was on the up and up. You can read how this went down hill because some people just cant have a respectful conversation here. The same people day after day.

Proofs in the pudding baby and as the head mod around here, I expect action.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I’m not saying every republican doesn’t wear a mask. I’m saying that people who don’t wear masks I would wager (my opinion) are republican. It’s like not every trump fan is racist. But every racist sure seems to be a trump fan.

Gotcha. I may not agree, but I understand better your logic.

 

[Strenuus]

My unwanted advice is to look at your own situation and see what normal is for you and yours before deciding what everyone's normal should be.

Then after deciding what normal for you is go out and see what things are like in your own community.

For example, your mom is still in a nursing home right? (Sorry if you've updated us on this and I missed it.) Are you allowed to see your mom in person yet? Is she allowed to leave yet, like you taking her to lunch nearby.

Then, see if you can volunteer at your local food bank for an afternoon or two. That will put you in direct contact who those who are most hurt by this and in a way that is helping.

IMO it's not about others telling us to flip a switch and magically everything is back to normal. It's about all of us trying to find ways to make things a little better, and a little better, and a little better, until finally things are to a point that we've getting through this together.

FUCKING THANK YOU.

"Oh, so the virus is still out there with no vaccine or treatment. But the hospitals are not overflowed Life should go back to normal."

Like seriously, how is that ANY common sense?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Then you shouldn't pile onto the shitpile being formed by people trying to say I said things I didnt. lol.

I don't believe I piled on anything or said anything that was rude or negative.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If you have no interested, then why the hell are you quoting me and asking me a question?


But to play along, Yes I know what it means, but its irreverent to the question I presented, that you ignored.

Now... Don't ask me anything else unless you are willing to answer my question to you about agreeing or disagreeing. Cause don't you demand that of everyone else? get all mad if they ask you a question without answering yours? Or are you a do as I say and not as I do guy?


And would it be thin skinned or snow flakey to say someone takes issue with a post by simply making a comment and asking if you agree or disagree? I mean are we in the third grade, and consider any thing not agreeing with us as being an issue? lol.



@SlyPokerDog !!!!LOL....


I tried again . I was on the up and up. You can read how this went down hill because some people just cant have a respectful conversation here. The same people day after day.

Proofs in the pudding baby and as the head mod around here, I expect action.

Mags has Cup in ignore. Why not try that. I do see some people, myself included, trying to have a respectful conversation with you.

 

[Strenuus]

I don't believe I piled on anything or said anything that was rude or negative.

You didnt. You stated facts and reality.

 

[CupWizier]

If you have no interested, then why the hell are you quoting me and asking me a question?


But to play along, Yes I know what it means, but its irreverent to the question I presented, that you ignored.

Now... Don't ask me anything else unless you are willing to answer my question to you about agreeing or disagreeing. Cause don't you demand that of everyone else? get all mad if they ask you a question without answering yours? Or are you a do as I say and not as I do guy?


And would it be thin skinned or snow flakey to say someone takes issue with a post by simply making a comment and asking if yhou agree or disagree? I mean are we in the third grade, and consider any thing wont agreeing with us as being an issue? lol.



@SlyPokerDog !!!!LOL....


I tried again . I was on the up and up. You can read how this went down hill because some people just cant have a respectful conversation here. The same people day after day.

Proofs in the pudding baby and as the head mod around here, I expect action.

NO, we have not accomplished the goals outlined by the CDC to go into phase 1 and we have states jumping right past phase 1 and phase 2 and going right into phase 3, so no, we don't know what's been accomplished yet and we are already starting to see some spikes. Now quit trying to play the victim as that tactic was old a couple years ago and here you are still using that ploy.

 

[Orion Bailey]

FUCKING THANK YOU.

"Oh, so the virus is still out there with no vaccine or treatment. But the hospitals are not overflowed Life should go back to normal."

Like seriously, how is that ANY common sense?

Life back to normal..


How many of you here use hyperbole to put words in peoples mouths?


I expect more fro so many of you...

I need to lower my expectation...

THANK YOU!!!!. .. lol.


How is it common sense to say we have accomplished a goal and should move on means the same thing as life as normal?

 

[Orion Bailey]

NO, we have not accomplished the goals outlined by the CDC to go into phase 1 and we have states jumping right past phase 1 and phase 2 and going right into phase 3, so no, we don't know what's been accomplished yet and we are already starting to see some spikes. Now quit trying to play the victim as that tactic was old a couple years ago and here you are still using that ploy.

That isn't the question I asked. Its just the question you are willing to answer.

Nice try. Fail.

Nice personal insult add to the end, but you are better than that right? cause you don't do that right? just call others out for it, right?

Come back when you answer the question I asked.. instead of some question you feel like asking.

Thanks,

 

[CupWizier]

Mags has Cup in ignore. Why not try that. I do see some people, myself included, trying to have a respectful conversation with you.

mags cracks me up. He only ignores me cause I have disproved much of his garbage that he continually posts and can't win.