OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (1 Viewer)

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Lanny said:
Who are those sources other than a mid Michigan NBC affiliate?
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WUSF is the flagship National Public Radio member station in the Tampa Bay area. It is licensed to Tampa and owned by the University of South Florida.

Not sure what theedgemarkets.com is. They are all referring to a study by Johns Hopkins.
 
tlongII said:
WUSF is the flagship National Public Radio member station in the Tampa Bay area. It is licensed to Tampa and owned by the University of South Florida.

Not sure what theedgemarkets.com is. They are all referring to a study by Johns Hopkins.
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They might all be referring to a John's Hopkins study but are they accurate? Also, do you have any national credible sources. Seems like this would be something The Newshour or All In with Chris Hayes or The Global Public Square with Fareed Zacharia or Meet the Press with Chuck Todd would be interested in that story. How about the NY Times or the Washington Post? Then there's the New Yorker magazine. There's a whole host of wonderful credible sources that should have printed that story yet they haven't. Do you wonder why?
 
Lanny said:
They might all be referring to a John's Hopkins study but are they accurate? Also, do you have any national credible sources. Seems like this would be something The Newshour or All In with Chris Hayes or The Global Public Square with Fareed Zacharia or Meet the Press with Chuck Todd would be interested in that story. How about the NY Times or the Washington Post? Then there's the New Yorker magazine. There's a whole host of wonderful credible sources that should have printed that story yet they haven't. Do you wonder why?
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There is literally a link to the actual study by Johns Hopkins in the WUSF link. You can even download it to a PDF file, print it out, and read it. I am definitely a conservative although I'm fully vaxxed and boosted. WUSF is a edu site so I wouldn't expect them to be biased towards conservatives.
 
tlongII said:
There is literally a link to the actual study by Johns Hopkins in the WUSF link. You can even download it to a PDF file, print it out, and read it. I am definitely a conservative although I'm fully vaxxed and boosted. WUSF is a edu site so I wouldn't expect them to be biased towards conservatives.
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It's not the job of all your interested readers to duplicate the research. This is your job. Can you see why?
 
Here is a science based subreddit discussing the John's Hopkins study. Anything not backed by sources is deleted from that subreddit, so it's a decent read.



Looks like a fairly flawed study. New Zealand has like 53 total deaths from covid, largely thanks to locking down.
 
Lanny said:
It's not the job of all your interested readers to duplicate the research. This is your job. Can you see why?
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No I cannot. It is not my job to duplicate research either. I am merely citing a study that seems incongruent with the direction that some leadership figures are espousing.
 
tlongII said:
No I cannot. It is not my job to duplicate research either. I am merely citing a study that seems incongruent with the direction that some leadership figures are espousing.
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These are not epidemiologists or researchers in natural sciences. The study is conducted by three economists (and I've already mentioned how this damages the economy), one of which is a proponent for less government regulation (e.g. a government lockdown). Another was a senior economist to a former Republican president. So there may be a natural bias to this study.

If my understanding is correct, they choose to compare the effects of a stringent lockdown vs. a lesser lockdown, not a lockdown vs. no lockdown. This on top of trying to distinguish the effect of a lockdown while other non-pharmaceutical interventions had already begun makes this even more subjective when trying to quantify the effects. The results also don't seem to take into account the fact that, at least in the US, there were rapid declines in public activity (such as self-isolation, social distancing, greater hygiene) well before legal restrictions were imposed, which has an obvious effect on the results.

Despite choosing only 34 studies (out of more than a thousand), 12 were not peer-reviewed, and I found that some of the ways they chose to exclude other studies were extremely subjective. Of the studies they did use, one of the ways they distinguish them is by admitting if they were conducted by those in the social sciences vs. "other sciences" (such as epidemiologists), and from what I can tell they seem to use more studies from social sciences. The difference in results between the two groups looks to be pretty significant, with the "other sciences" showing that lockdowns have a larger effect on COVID mortality). They end up admitting that based on their findings the closures of non-essential businesses, and separately wearing masks, did have a significant effect on reducing COVID-19 mortality.

Near the end they talk about possible factors in their findings which I did find interesting. One is that voluntary behavioral changes are more effective than mandates. I would agree with this unless half the population is basing their behavior on misinformation.
 
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tlongII said:
No I cannot. It is not my job to duplicate research either. I am merely citing a study that seems incongruent with the direction that some leadership figures are espousing.
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The research is in putting up a credible link not any scientific analysis of the Johns Hopkins study. And in debate 101 it is the job of a person making an assertion to back it up.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This is where I'm at, too. People have made their choices.
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Would have been an easy solution if we did not have so many anti-vax, anti-mask idiots that endanger everyone for their "freedom".

Vaccinate, wear a mask indoors in populated public places - and there are no other restrictions. Businesses can go on, schools will work, restaurants can continue to operate. But, all the freedom fighters dragging their feet necessitate these mandates.
 
Lanny said:
The research is in putting up a credible link not any scientific analysis of the Johns Hopkins study. And in debate 101 it is the job of a person making an assertion to back it up.
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Am I in a debate? I don't think so.
 
andalusian said:
Would have been an easy solution if we did not have so many anti-vax, anti-mask idiots that endanger everyone for their "freedom".

Vaccinate, wear a mask indoors in populated public places - and there are no other restrictions. Businesses can go on, schools will work, restaurants can continue to operate. But, all the freedom fighters dragging their feet necessitate these mandates.
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Agreed. Luckily they are the only ones dying... So fuck'em. Sorry to say it... but fuck'em.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Agreed. Luckily they are the only ones dying... So fuck'em. Sorry to say it... but fuck'em.
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The issue is that they are causing unnecessary harm to others, even if they do not die. My in laws are in their late 70s and early 80s, vaccinated, boosted, traveled and because of some idiots that were not masked and vaccinated were infected - they both had short stints at the hospital and luckily are recovering - but you are looking at unnecessary pain and suffering for older folks just trying to do normal stuff - because some asshats were not willing to respect other people. Shame.

I will agree tho - that I am beyond the point of feeling sorry for the "freedom" fighters that suffer from their foolishness. I respect their freedom to expire. I just do not want them to harm others in the process.
 
tlongII said:
Am I in a debate? I don't think so.
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Lanny is in a perpetual state of debate. If you’re going to dare have an opinion, you’d better fucking be able to back it up with a collegiate dissertation or else you aren’t allowed to express it!
 
Antivaxxers anti mask are symptoms of bigger problem. The idea that consideration, social solidarity, are bad things. You don't have that attitude, at least not to such a degree, in other countries. It's all about me me me. Trump, of course, was ultimate expression, a narcissist sociopath who never in his life cared for anything but his ego and his wealth. See also millionaire senators voting tax cuts for themselves but outraged over unemployment benefits and food aid. The idea that the tiniest inconvenience is persecution. Remember how, during her confirmation hearing, Sonia Sotomayor was ridiculed for talking about empathy?
 
andalusian said:
The issue is that they are causing unnecessary harm to others, even if they do not die. My in laws are in their late 70s and early 80s, vaccinated, boosted, traveled and because of some idiots that were not masked and vaccinated were infected - they both had short stints at the hospital and luckily are recovering - but you are looking at unnecessary pain and suffering for older folks just trying to do normal stuff - because some asshats were not willing to respect other people. Shame.

I will agree tho - that I am beyond the point of feeling sorry for the "freedom" fighters that suffer from their foolishness. I respect their freedom to expire. I just do not want them to harm others in the process.
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<Sigh> Yeah, I keep coming back to that with my grandfather as well... I don't visit very often since my kids are constantly exposed at school and in basketball practice/games.

He has COPD and I'm sure probably wouldn't survive a covid infection (even though he's fully vaxxed and boosted) ...

But... We're not going to convince the asshats.
 
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Road Ratt said:
Following governors... isn't following science. So if Biden listens, he isn't following science either.

Of course it isn't about science, it's all about money. Capitalism doesn't care about a pandemic, nor your life.
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Thats a bunch of BS...Capitalism has made this one of the greatest countries in the world. Why do refugees and others all want to come here?
Sure, you can find bad in everything but balance can be an important factor too. This site wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a form of capitalism.
 
crandc said:
Antivaxxers anti mask are symptoms of bigger problem. The idea that consideration, social solidarity, are bad things. You don't have that attitude, at least not to such a degree, in other countries. It's all about me me me. Trump, of course, was ultimate expression, a narcissist sociopath who never in his life cared for anything but his ego and his wealth. See also millionaire senators voting tax cuts for themselves but outraged over unemployment benefits and food aid. The idea that the tiniest inconvenience is persecution. Remember how, during her confirmation hearing, Sonia Sotomayor was ridiculed for talking about empathy?
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I am going to argue that this is not true - I have seen it in other places. Not all of them, for sure - but there are many countries that seem to have a lot of "me first" attitude.

I would agree however that it seems to have gotten worse in the US - and Trumpism sure made it look like it is an acceptable norm. A shame.
 
Hoopguru said:
Thats a bunch of BS...Capitalism has made this one of the greatest countries in the world. Why do refugees and others all want to come here?
Sure, you can find bad in everything but balance can be an important factor too. This site wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a form of capitalism.
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Capitalism is currently destroying America.

America used to be number 1. Now we are not. Not even close anymore. We used to build in America with pride, now we buy from China as they have our old manufacturing jobs. America is owned buy a small group of billionaires, and they don't care to give it back.
 
Hoopguru said:
Thats a bunch of BS...Capitalism has made this one of the greatest countries in the world. Why do refugees and others all want to come here?
Sure, you can find bad in everything but balance can be an important factor too. This site wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a form of capitalism.
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Just because we got nice things doesn't mean it still doesn't cause a lot of problems.

People who have beautiful houses often have dirty secrets and nefarious doings.

Kinda metaphoric for how bad capitalism has made us, held up by stilts.

Capitalism will kill this country. I'm sorry youve been lead to believe differently.
 
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