OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting

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TBpup said:
Try Dr. Fauci. https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/d...re-health-care-workers-had-enough/ar-BB15A4kO

Also initially said it was nothing to worry about.
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Saying doctors need them more and that PPE aren't effective at protecting untrained people from catching it isn't wrong.

N95 masks don't protect most people as well as doctors because most people screw around with them and aren't trained to wear them correctly. They are very effective for doctors.

Unless you are well trained you're just as well off to wear a cloth mask. But we didn't know if that would be effective at all at the time so they didn't suggest it. We didn't know at the time that cloth masks could drastically reduce the odds of you SPREADING it to others.

But it was critical that people stopped buying up all of the legit PPE.

None of that was wrong. The article you linked doesn't support your case,even though it tries to.
 
ehizzy3 said:
I played golf and football the day I got the shot and had really mild symptoms the next day. So that’s the key to not getting sick after the second dose, golf and football folks
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I had a friend at Tektronix who gave blood in the morning and then went to Mt. Shasta and climbed it the same day.
 
Marjorie QAnon is doubling down on her comparison of mask mandate to Nazi death camps. She now claims, while touring with child molester Gaetz in support the claim that election was stolen from god, that "reasonable Jews" agree with her comparison. Because an antisemite is the best judge of what Jewish people believe.
 
Shaboid said:
Finally finished reading this. It's a long one and I wanted to take my time. It looks to me like someone in China let the experiment escape the lab. We should also probably take a hard look at the gain-of-function research that MAY have been the culprit. Really all you can do when there isn't any smoking gun to point to.
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amazes me we would give a US company grants to use a lab in China? This whole thing starting to stink and Media brainwashes any narrative they want.
 
Hoopguru said:
amazes me we would give a US company grants to use a lab in China? This whole thing starting to stink and Media brainwashes any narrative they want.
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Deception by the scientists, opaqueness by the funding institutions, deliberate and unintentional misreporting by the media, stupidity by the general public. Lots of blame to go around.
 
Hoopguru said:
amazes me we would give a US company grants to use a lab in China? This whole thing starting to stink and Media brainwashes any narrative they want.
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I'm not sure the 'media' really is intentionally promoting any narrative.
I think it really comes down to trying to be first with the news and trusting or running with the first thing that is reasonably logical. Minimal (if any) effort is put in to investigate what they are reporting.
They have their trusted sources, and will run with anything coming from those sources.
 
1. If it was a virus found in nature that escaped from a lab our response still would have been the same.

2. It was not a lab created virus. If it was it would have been deadlier.

3. That is in an interesting area of the world. It's where many of the different flu variants emerge from. That lab is very important in trying to forecast the yearly flu variants and develop a shot for it. We do need to continue to work with this lab.

4. China does need to be more forthcoming and to take steps to prevent future virus exposers.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
1. If it was a virus found in nature that escaped from a lab our response still would have been the same.

2. It was not a lab created virus. If it was it would have been deadlier.

3. That is in an interesting area of the world. It's where many of the different flu variants emerge from. That lab is very important in trying to forecast the yearly flu variants and develop a shot for it. We do need to continue to work with this lab.

4. China does need to be more forthcoming and to take steps to prevent future virus exposers.
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Without number 4 you can't confirm number 2 is where I'm at with the whole thing, but it's likely we will never know. 1 & 3 make sense to me, I guess I'm just unsure how you are coming to the conclusion that because it wasn't "more deadly" that it wasn't created in a lab. Feels like a big jump, especially since whether the virus emerged naturally or in a lab it has still been pretty damn deadly.
 
Shaboid said:
Without number 4 you can't confirm number 2 is where I'm at with the whole thing, but it's likely we will never know. 1 & 3 make sense to me, I guess I'm just unsure how you are coming to the conclusion that because it wasn't "more deadly" that it wasn't created in a lab. Feels like a big jump, especially since whether the virus emerged naturally or in a lab it has still been pretty damn deadly.
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There were a few articles when the leaked virus theory was first out there and they talked about lab created viruses in-depth. There are certain markers that make lab created viruses easier to differentiate from naturally occurring ones.

But I'm no expert on this, lol.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
There were a few articles when the leaked virus theory was first out there and they talked about lab created viruses in-depth. There are certain markers that make lab created viruses easier to differentiate from naturally occurring ones.

But I'm no expert on this, lol.
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This article pointed to certain markers (furin cleavage site?) that did differentiate from naturally occurring viruses, at least to my limited understanding. . I'm with you though, I'm no expert. I am skeptical of just about any definitive truths these days though.
 
What we know: it is not bioweapon.

The lab in Wuhan was conducting research on the family of viruses. I have worked in enough labs to know safety protocols are only as good as people carrying them out. People screw up and I have known supervisors cut corners; I was once threatened with "very severe consequences" by my supervisor when I refused to falsify data. And viruses are known to rapidly mutate. So a person accidentally getting infected isn't Jewish space lasers. It's possible. But far from proven. What is needed is thorough unbiased fact based investigation, which WHO had undertaken. Unfortunately lab leak is now an article of faith on the right for political and often racist reasons, from the same people who insisted it was just a little flu, touted hydroxychoroquine, denounced masks and oppose vaccines, with the additional trope that Dr. Fauci is guilty of something. And Trump is the hero. Also the election was stolen. So article after article from non scientists with incomplete data who start with a conclusion and then try to make facts fit.

And I wish auto correct would stop changing data to days. Had to fix twice.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
There were a few articles when the leaked virus theory was first out there and they talked about lab created viruses in-depth. There are certain markers that make lab created viruses easier to differentiate from naturally occurring ones.

But I'm no expert on this, lol.
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The gain-of-function process is taking a virus & taking the naturally occurring variants with slight DNA variations being inserted.

Its not 'man made' in the traditional sense. But is it likely altered/modified by humans.

The link I posted above goes into a lot of the details
 
tester551 said:
The gain-of-function process is taking a virus & taking the naturally occurring variants with slight DNA variations being inserted.

Its not 'man made' in the traditional sense. But is it likely altered/modified by humans.

The link I posted above goes into a lot of the details
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I read your article and then I entered the author into Google News for follow up articles and it's far too early to reach the conclusions he did. It's definitely worth continued investigation but it's along ways away from being definitive or conclusive.
 
crandc said:
Marjorie QAnon is doubling down on her comparison of mask mandate to Nazi death camps. She now claims, while touring with child molester Gaetz in support the claim that election was stolen from god, that "reasonable Jews" agree with her comparison. Because an antisemite is the best judge of what Jewish people believe.
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If you put this in a movie, as soon as people saw it they'd decry how fake it is. Even when carried by a reputable news source you've got to ask yourself, "Could this be true?".
 
crandc said:
What we know: it is not bioweapon.

The lab in Wuhan was conducting research on the family of viruses. I have worked in enough labs to know safety protocols are only as good as people carrying them out. People screw up and I have known supervisors cut corners; I was once threatened with "very severe consequences" by my supervisor when I refused to falsify data. And viruses are known to rapidly mutate. So a person accidentally getting infected isn't Jewish space lasers. It's possible. But far from proven. What is needed is thorough unbiased fact based investigation, which WHO had undertaken. Unfortunately lab leak is now an article of faith on the right for political and often racist reasons, from the same people who insisted it was just a little flu, touted hydroxychoroquine, denounced masks and oppose vaccines, with the additional trope that Dr. Fauci is guilty of something. And Trump is the hero. Also the election was stolen. So article after article from non scientists with incomplete data who start with a conclusion and then try to make facts fit.

And I wish auto correct would stop changing data to days. Had to fix twice.
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Are you talking about the Chinese virus?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
1. If it was a virus found in nature that escaped from a lab our response still would have been the same.

2. It was not a lab created virus. If it was it would have been deadlier.

3. That is in an interesting area of the world. It's where many of the different flu variants emerge from. That lab is very important in trying to forecast the yearly flu variants and develop a shot for it. We do need to continue to work with this lab.

4. China does need to be more forthcoming and to take steps to prevent future virus exposers.
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As for your no. 2:
Hasn't the Far Right been proclaiming for a long time that it was nothing more than a case of the cold and that the Left has been exaggerating it's deadliness?
 
crandc said:
What we know: it is not bioweapon.

The lab in Wuhan was conducting research on the family of viruses. I have worked in enough labs to know safety protocols are only as good as people carrying them out. People screw up and I have known supervisors cut corners; I was once threatened with "very severe consequences" by my supervisor when I refused to falsify data. And viruses are known to rapidly mutate. So a person accidentally getting infected isn't Jewish space lasers. It's possible. But far from proven. What is needed is thorough unbiased fact based investigation, which WHO had undertaken. Unfortunately lab leak is now an article of faith on the right for political and often racist reasons, from the same people who insisted it was just a little flu, touted hydroxychoroquine, denounced masks and oppose vaccines, with the additional trope that Dr. Fauci is guilty of something. And Trump is the hero. Also the election was stolen. So article after article from non scientists with incomplete data who start with a conclusion and then try to make facts fit.

And I wish auto correct would stop changing data to days. Had to fix twice.
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There's a good chance that we may never really know exactly what happened. It'll probably come out on Netflix as a documentary in a few years though.
 
Alabama joined several other states with Republican control in banning business from requiring customers to be vaccinated.

These same states passed laws allowing businesses, and specifically health care providers, to refuse to serve LGBTQ customers/patients and in some cases unmarried pregnant women if Jesus.

Companies must have freedom to be bigots but not to enforce public health.
 
I was in Costco today and the customer in front of me wasn't wearing a mask. He got asked if he had been vaccinated and said yes, I saw him show his card and heard the the guy that let's people in say "Oh we don't need to see your card we only need to know if you've been vaccinated or not" and let him go in.

So what's the point in even asking?
 
Traitor and pardoned felon Michael Flynn said Covid was deliberately created to hurt Trump in the election (which of course he actually won in a landslide?) Whoever created it must have known Trump would botch the response. In other countries like New Zealand prime minister became more popular due to handling of Covid-19.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If it were anything other than natural it would be a lot worse than it is.
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I'm curious.... Why do you believe that?

One theory of the origin is that the virus escaped from a research lab. The lab is studying the evolution of natural viruses and making slight modifications to them to evaluate the effects. This would still be considered a 'man made' virus because it was created intentionally. The virus may have escaped by accident (or by neglect).

I haven't seen any creditable claim that the virus was man made to be used as a bio-weapon. If it was intended to be a weapon - then I agree it would be a lot worse than it is.
 
tester551 said:
I'm curious.... Why do you believe that?

One theory of the origin is that the virus escaped from a research lab. The lab is studying the evolution of natural viruses and making slight modifications to them to evaluate the effects. This would still be considered a 'man made' virus because it was created intentionally. The virus may have escaped by accident (or by neglect).

I haven't seen any creditable claim that the virus was man made to be used as a bio-weapon. If it was intended to be a weapon - then I agree it would be a lot worse than it is.
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Good point. But if it wasn't intentional then it's not a very big story. The research still needs to happen... If protocols were broken and it was released accidentally there is nobody to blame except somebody who couldn't possibly be held responsible.

So lesson is, protocols need to be followed.

But there is no genetic evidence that points to it being man made. So it could have evolved naturally. Meaning we still need to address the issues which increase the odds of that happening.

That it's obviously not an intentional weapon means it doesn't matter so much what we learn about where it came from. We need to address both possibilities the same way regardless.
 
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