Could history be repeating itself??

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Aug 5 2008, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's a hotbed of political repression. And again, the attack was not on civilians but on the repressive machinery of the Han Chinese police state.

In 1982, the US State Department declared the African National Congress a terrorist group. How'd that work out?</div>

Yeah for sure. The US need to 'liberate' these people so they can live in peace and harmony just like in Iraq right?................................................oh wait. Never mind.
</div>
Talk about calming down. No one is talking about liberating anyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div>
You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div>
You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.
</div>

Word!

Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.

 

[Malorkayel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>One thing you can count on: any information being released from CHINA has undergone a broad series of dis-information first.

Just like in Tibetan attacks (more recently), its going to be hard to get the full, accurate picture. What we do know is this: there is political unrest in China. And we do know how China typically deals with it...</div>

No kidding dude. When you have western media cropping pictures like CNN did to distort stories, it's no wonder why most Americans can't even tell what's reality anymore. Fortunately major media outlet can no longer control the flow of information anymore so for those who want to hear both side of the stories the info is out there. All you've got to do is research it.
</div>

I never more shocked in my life after witnessing the combined effort of the U.S. mainstream media's propaganda smear campaign over the Tibetan riots.

Pictures after pictures of misinformation over police and military violence. Yet, none of the photoed guilty police/soldiers were from China.

I felt dumbed down and insulted. It's like you can trust internet gossip more than MSM news, it's very disturbing. Also, the major news sources are starting to quote people from message boards. There is now a blur to what's what, chicken or the egg type of confusion.

 

[Malorkayel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div>
You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.
</div>

Word!

Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.
</div>

I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere.

Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up.

 

[Chutney]

I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.

 

[Malorkayel]

IBTL?

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Aug 5 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div>
You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.
</div>

Word!

Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.
</div>

I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere.

Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up.
</div>

Because famous athletes have the attention of normal people more than anyone else.

Ira actually went overseas to Darfur to meet with their people and to see what was happening. He invests time and money into the people who have been suffering over there, and even though he didn't even get invited, he decided on protesting the Olympics (what the letter's about). He tried to get other players to sign it as well, not just from the NBA, but also from the MLB, NFL - but I'm not that sure that many signed. What I see from you're statement is pure disrespect - Ira's at least trying to open up minds to what's happening, and is at least try to fight it - who are you to just put him down like that? What are you doing to help the people in Darfur? At least give the man some damn respect for trying. Just because he isn't as famous or well-known as Ali, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve your respect.

So you respect Ali - wouldn't you respect Lebron if he did the same as Ali? Wouldn't you respect him if he came out and said "I refuse to play for Team USA in Beijing because of the bullshit the Chinese government is doing"? Is that something you'd want him to do (on his own free will)?

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?

 

[Tang Man]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.

 

[Malorkayel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Aug 5 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div>
You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.
</div>

Word!

Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.
</div>

I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere.

Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up.
</div>

Because famous athletes have the attention of normal people more than anyone else.

Ira actually went overseas to Darfur to meet with their people and to see what was happening. He invests time and money into the people who have been suffering over there, and even though he didn't even get invited, he decided on protesting the Olympics (what the letter's about). He tried to get other players to sign it as well, not just from the NBA, but also from the MLB, NFL - but I'm not that sure that many signed. What I see from you're statement is pure disrespect - Ira's at least trying to open up minds to what's happening, and is at least try to fight it - who are you to just put him down like that? What are you doing to help the people in Darfur? At least give the man some damn respect for trying. Just because he isn't as famous or well-known as Ali, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve your respect.

So you respect Ali - wouldn't you respect Lebron if he did the same as Ali? Wouldn't you respect him if he came out and said "I refuse to play for Team USA in Beijing because of the bullshit the Chinese government is doing"? Is that something you'd want him to do (on his own free will)?
</div>

Ok according to your logic. Athletes get more attention, they become better mouthpiece to voice opinions. Newble need learn to play better ball.

I would respect Lebron if he quit the NBA to protest the war on Iraq. I would also respec Yao Ming if he quit because of Darfur. I wouldn't respect anyone that's being a puppet for their government.

 

[Tang Man]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?</div>

Educating people about what bro? That the US need more secure oil supply to keep it's economic ticking and will do anything to ensure it gets its hand on these supplies?

BTW have they found the WMD's yet?

 

[Chutney]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?
</div>
Look, I have respect for Ira. But there's no denying that his understanding of the depth of the issue is a bit lacking. I give him credit for being proactive, but I won't take his opinion as seriously as some more intelligent, well-read athletes.

 

[Chutney]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?</div>

Educating people about what bro? That the US need more secure oil supply to keep it's economic ticking and will do anything to ensure it gets its hand on these supplies?

BTW have they found the WMD's yet?
</div>
Ad hominem arguments don't really prove anything. The US has their own issues, but pointing to them doesn't say anything about China's problems.

 

[pegs]

I wasn't at all advocating anything the US is doing in Iraq, and I am highly against it. Hence my reference to Etan Thomas, who is a known speaker against Iraq.

Where did I say anything about anyone being a puppet for their government?

You're putting words in my mouth. I hate it when people do that.

 

[Tang Man]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ad hominem arguments don't really prove anything. The US has their own issues, but pointing to them doesn't say anything about China's problems.</div>

I am certainly not going to say China doesn't have problem that it certainly does. It is very much a country that is still developing and has a long way to go as far as the REAL human rights issue is concern. However if you compare the standard of living of people and the freedom that they now have as compared with 20 years you'll see significant progress has been made. Have you been to China? If you have you will see that. What I am against is the anti-China attitude that seems to have been adopted by the US because China is an emerging country that is now competing with the US for vital resources. Things such as freedom of speech and human rights are nothing more than political tools used by the US government in attempt to destablize and derail one of its main competitors.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Aug 5 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>IBTL?</div>
We almost never have to lock threads. Lets keep it that way.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?
</div>
Look, I have respect for Ira. But there's no denying that his understanding of the depth of the issue is a bit lacking. I give him credit for being proactive, but I won't take his opinion as seriously as some more intelligent, well-read athletes.
</div>

Oh, okay, I see what you're saying now.

I guess it's understandable, because there are more knowledgeable people out there - such as a native of the country, Luol Deng? Not sure, but most likely. Probably would have been a better example than Ira.

 

[Vintage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
</div>



Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?

 

[Chutney]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though.

This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div>

Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?
</div>
Look, I have respect for Ira. But there's no denying that his understanding of the depth of the issue is a bit lacking. I give him credit for being proactive, but I won't take his opinion as seriously as some more intelligent, well-read athletes.
</div>

Oh, okay, I see what you're saying now.

I guess it's understandable, because there are more knowledgeable people out there - such as a native of the country, Luol Deng? Not sure, but most likely. Probably would have been a better example than Ira.
</div>
You actually pointed out the guy I had in mind. I liked reading Etan Thomas' opinion on various issues.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
</div>



Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?
</div>

There's human rights abuses taking place all over.

It's just that this Olympics is taking place in Beijing. Not US, Sudan, Burma, Iraq, etc.

 

[Tang Man]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh, okay, I see what you're saying now.

I guess it's understandable, because there are more knowledgeable people out there - such as a native of the country, Luol Deng? Not sure, but most likely. Probably would have been a better example than Ira.</div>

Luol Deng could have been a better example but you're forgetting an important fact. What he had to say may not be inline with the US policies. Then what?

As for Etan Thomas, so was he against the Iraq war was he? Funny, I don't think I've heard about it. Why is that? I betcha if he was against China, he would have gain a lot more publicity like Ira Newble. So is any journalist from the US going to ask Lebron if he is going to stand up against the American government for their involvement in Iraq, where innocently people are continually losing their lives?

 

[Vintage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
</div>



Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?
</div>

There's human rights abuses taking place all over.

It's just that this Olympics is taking place in Beijing. Not US, Sudan, Burma, Iraq, etc.
</div>


OK.

So....


Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan?

 

[bling890]

Why is this discussion in a nets forum?? lol. i appreciate a good well-rounded debate as much as anyone, but I'm completely confused right now. lol

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh, okay, I see what you're saying now.

I guess it's understandable, because there are more knowledgeable people out there - such as a native of the country, Luol Deng? Not sure, but most likely. Probably would have been a better example than Ira.</div>

Luol Deng could have been a better example but you're forgetting an important fact. What he had to say may not be inline with the US policies. Then what?

As for Etan Thomas, so was he against the Iraq war was he? Funny, I don't think I've heard about it. Why is that? I betcha if he was against China, he would have gain a lot more publicity like Ira Newble. So is any journalist from the US going to ask Lebron if he is going to stand up against the American government for their involvement in Iraq, where innocently people are continually losing their lives?
</div>

What do you mean "not inline with the US policies"?

Etan was on ESPN. I know that for sure. There have been scattered articles in newspapers and online about it. It's not like they're hard to find, and it's not my fault you haven't seen him. Also, he is against China. He's also behind Ira's cause, and therefore against China.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
</div>



Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?
</div>

There's human rights abuses taking place all over.

It's just that this Olympics is taking place in Beijing. Not US, Sudan, Burma, Iraq, etc.
</div>


OK.

So....


Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan?
</div>

Darfur is in Sudan, and that's what the premise of this whole argument is about. So yes, there are human rights abuses taking place in Sudan.

 

[Tang Man]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?</div>

The world is a f**k up place. Human rights abuse and injustice is happening all over the world and NOT just in China, Sudan or Bruma. Does it need to improve in China? YES. Does it need to improve in the US? YES. It's important that everyone recognizes this and improve themselves in dealing with the people they come into contact with. Finger point and blame shifting will do NOTHING but divide people. The US government will always look after its own interests first and foremost just like you would with your own family. However just be aware that what is good for the US is not neccessarily what's good for everyone outside of the US. People are going to have different opinions. It doesn't mean they are wrong. What is required is a situation where people from both side can co-exists. So when you hear about Darfur for example don't just assumed the problem is all because of the Chinese when the US are very much a part of that problem and need to work in co-operation with China to reach a solution.

BTW Just because a few celebrities throws their weight behind a course it doesn't make it anymore right or just. Just remember, it's not hollywood, you are dealing with real people's lives here.

 

[Vintage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur.

There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones.

IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks.

Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div>

So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html

So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey????

The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
</div>



Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?
</div>

There's human rights abuses taking place all over.

It's just that this Olympics is taking place in Beijing. Not US, Sudan, Burma, Iraq, etc.
</div>


OK.

So....


Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan?
</div>

Darfur is in Sudan, and that's what the premise of this whole argument is about. So yes, there are human rights abuses taking place in Sudan.
</div>

I am not sure what the point of the "Darfur is in Sudan" comment is....


I know the point of me re-asking the question was: to get a straight answer instead of the non-answer of "well, there are human rights abuses everywhere in the world..."

 

[Vintage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes or no will suffice.

Are there human rights abuses taking place in Sudan, Burma, etc?</div>

The world is a f**k up place. Human rights abuse and injustice is happening all over the world and NOT just in China, Sudan or Bruma. Does it need to improve in China? YES. Does it need to improve in the US? YES. It's important that everyone recognizes this and improve themselves in dealing with the people they come into contact with. Finger point and blame shifting will do NOTHING but divide people. The US government will always look after its own interests first and foremost just like you would with your own family. However just be aware that what is good for the US is not neccessarily what's good for everyone outside of the US. People are going to have different opinions. It doesn't mean they are wrong. What is required is a situation where people from both side can co-exists. So when you hear about Darfur for example don't just assumed the problem is all because of the Chinese when the US are very much a part of that problem and need to work in co-operation with China to reach a solution.

BTW Just because a few celebrities throws their weight behind a course it doesn't make it anymore right or just. Just remember, it's not hollywood, you are dealing with real people's lives here.
</div>


People generally don't like to see thousands upon thousands of people being slaughtered with machetes.

They tend to view that as crimes against humanity.

So when a country (say, China) does business with them.... there is going to be negative criticism of China. Its EXPECTED. Don't like being criticised for policy actions, China? Well, then don't become a superpower. Because you will get criticised left and right....

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>

Darfur is in Sudan, and that's what the premise of this whole argument is about. So yes, there are human rights abuses taking place in Sudan.</div>

I am not sure what the point of the "Darfur is in Sudan" comment is....


I know the point of me re-asking the question was: to get a straight answer instead of the non-answer of "well, there are human rights abuses everywhere in the world..."

</div>


Well, I was under the impression that part of the argument (whether said or not) was that human rights abuses are taking place in Darfur.

I don't know how that wasn't a straight answer. You were asking "Sudan, Burma, etc."...is that not included in "the world"?

 

[Claud]

In the next 5-10 years China will replace the United States as the most powerful nation in the world. FACT. Also it is never good to mix sports with politics... so lets keep it that way