Court split over dues for unions.

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Quid pro quo. Something else unions can do that corporations cannot.

Right, corporations cannot obtain quid pro quos from politicians. Because nothing that politicians do affects corporations, and the corporations seek nothing in return for their contributions, unlike unions. Corporations give out of the goodness of their hearts, because, after all, corporations are people. Unlike unions.

barfo
 
Right, corporations cannot obtain quid pro quos from politicians. Because nothing that politicians do affects corporations, and the corporations seek nothing in return for their contributions, unlike unions. Corporations give out of the goodness of their hearts, because, after all, corporations are people. Unlike unions.

barfo
It would be bribery if a CEO wrote the legislation and appeared with the governor when he announces and signs the law. That is, if the CEO's corporation donated massive amounts of $$$ to the governor's campaign.
 
Those in the peanut gallery who don't pay union dues don't have a dog in the fight and should shut the f**k up

Oh! I think we all have a dog in this fight. Public employee Unions contributing to Democrat politicians that then in turn negotiate sweet heard deal with the public employees Union, is flat out corruption.
The possibility here should be eliminated from several directions.

No sir! Can not shut the fuck up.

Not only should these unions be prohibited from making political contribution, public employee unions should not exist by law.
 
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I'm not sure how it works for private sector unions, but public employee unions have the option once a year to apply for a refund from their unions of a certain percentage of their annual dues that are considered to have been used for political activities. It is not an insignificant refund. So....any public employee who makes an effort to pay attention can opt out of "political contributions" and quit their bitching. Those in the peanut gallery who don't pay union dues don't have a dog in the fight and should shut the f**k up. Public employees don't have the option to opt out of paying those who negotiate on their behalf for wages, benefits, etc. Which is as it should be. Why should they get something for nothing? If an employee has a problem paying union dues, then they have the option of finding a non Union job. Unfortunately, unions are a necessary evil. This is underlined by the efforts of big business to stamp them out. The argument that everyone should negotiate on their own behalf ignores the fact that not everyone is created equal. This would be a far shittier world than it already is if it wasn't for the existence of unions. And that is a very sad commentary on humanity in general.
I remember in high school I worked at fred meyer and was forced to pay union dues while making minimum wage. What is it the union was doing for me besides lowering my take home wage below minimum wage again? You're right though, I had the option to leave and made the most of it.
 
Makes sense that corporations can endorse candidates, only because people are technically corporations when they get their social security number.
 
In that case, the line I quoted was kind of silly. What would the proposal be? That corporations can collect dues from employees to use for political donations? Or that unions can't make political donations at all since they have no source of funds other than dues?

SMH.

barfo
Or, that union employees have the option to contribute--separate from their union dues--funds to the union for political activity, and unions are restricted to only those funds with regard to political spending.

That doesn't really seem all that unreasonable, does it?
 
Or, that union employees have the option to contribute--separate from their union dues--funds to the union for political activity, and unions are restricted to only those funds with regard to political spending.

That doesn't really seem all that unreasonable, does it?

Yeah, actually it does seem unreasonable.

If you want to take that decision away from union leadership, why not take other decisions away?

For instance, if the union wants to hire a new secretary, those who are opposed to secretaries, or that particular secretary, should be able to opt out.

If the union wants to buy a paperclip, only the paper-clip loving union members should have to contribute.

What's special about decisions on political contributions?

Here's the equivalent for corporations. The corporation wants to donate $X to political action. They have to give their shareholders the option of taking their share of that money in cash or allowing the company to donate it.

I'd be fine with that - it would reduce political contributions from both unions and corporations to near-zero.

barfo
 
Yeah, actually it does seem unreasonable.

If you want to take that decision away from union leadership, why not take other decisions away?

For instance, if the union wants to hire a new secretary, those who are opposed to secretaries, or that particular secretary, should be able to opt out.

If the union wants to buy a paperclip, only the paper-clip loving union members should have to contribute.

What's special about decisions on political contributions?

Here's the equivalent for corporations. The corporation wants to donate $X to political action. They have to give their shareholders the option of taking their share of that money in cash or allowing the company to donate it.

I'd be fine with that - it would reduce political contributions from both unions and corporations to near-zero.

barfo

That's really a poor comparison, because the corporation has earned whatever money it uses, whereas unions receive their money through contribution. The government recognizes the difference by affording unions tax exempt status.

Comparing G&A expenses to political expenditures is also a very poor comparison.

You're off your game today. I expect better from you.
 
That's really a poor comparison, because the corporation has earned whatever money it uses

Whatever money they earn belongs to the stockholders, by definition.
If I'm a stockholder I don't want them donating to X. So they shouldn't be able to donate my share to X. Right?
That's the principle here, isn't it? Nobody should be able to donate "my share" of money to a candidate I don't agree with?

whereas unions receive their money through contribution. The government recognizes the difference by affording unions tax exempt status.

Yeah, I wasn't saying unions and corporations are equivalent.

Comparing G&A expenses to political expenditures is also a very poor comparison.

And I think that's just an assertion with no argument to back it up.

You're off your game today. I expect better from you.

Same to ya, and twice on Sunday!!

barfo
 
Oh! I think we all have a dog in this fight. Public employee Unions contributing to Democrat politicians that then in turn negotiate sweet heard deal with the public employees Union, is flat out corruption.
The possibility here should be eliminated from several directions.

No sir! Can not shut the fuck up.

Not only should these unions be prohibited from making political contribution, public employee unions should not exist by law.
So.....if unions contributed to Republican politicians it would be okay? The fact that public employee unions generally contribute to the Democrats is why plenty of public employees file for the rebate. But maybe if Republican politicians looked out for ALL their constituents rather than their corporate masters we wouldn't be having this debate. Unions exist as a bulwark against corporate abuse (read your history) be it public or private. Unions are as corrupt as the corporations. But at least they did far more for guys like me than than did management in both the public and private sectors. Regardless of some opinions, public employees are not public property. They have a right to representation. This is still America, like it or don't.
 
That's really a poor comparison

...

You're off your game today. I expect better from you.

Another SMH moment.

I don't get it. It seems obvious to me that if you understand how a corporation works and how a union works, they don't raise money the same way at all. And they have different rules when it comes to political activities.
 
Whatever money they earn belongs to the stockholders, by definition.
If I'm a stockholder I don't want them donating to X. So they shouldn't be able to donate my share to X. Right?
That's the principle here, isn't it? Nobody should be able to donate "my share" of money to a candidate I don't agree with?



Yeah, I wasn't saying unions and corporations are equivalent.



And I think that's just an assertion with no argument to back it up.



Same to ya, and twice on Sunday!!

barfo

If you don't like what the board of directors does, elect a new one. If you don't like what the CEO does, hire a new board of directors.

Or sell your stock.

Sheesh.
 
If you don't like what the board of directors does, elect a new one. If you don't like what the CEO does, hire a new board of directors.

Or sell your stock.

Sheesh.

If you don't like what union leadership does, vote them out. If you don't like what a union does, decertify them.

Or get a different job.

Sheesh.

barfo
 
If you don't like what union leadership does, vote them out. If you don't like what a union does, decertify them.

Or get a different job.

Sheesh.

barfo

Except I had no choice but to be in the union and against my wishes.

Another SMH post. You must be trying to set some sort of record for those.
 
I knew you were old but didn't realize you were a slave. No wonder the modern world is bewildering to you.

barfo
In some towns, the only employer of note is a company infected by a union. Infected? Infested. Either works.

You can log into etrade in your jockey shorts and sell your stock.

Nobody voted against your wishes that you are forced against your will to buy those shares in the first place.
 
They have a right to representation. This is still America, like it or don't.

Naw, public employee unions contributing to the politicians they need to negotiate with is not American! It is an unholy alliance of corruption and the major reason the public is saddled with huge unfunded liabilities.
 
Yeah, sounds like you favor unions, all right.

barfo
I favor unions, collective bargaining, protecting striking workers from violence, etc.

Infestation is a good word for a parasite that isn't wanted.
 
I benefited several times by unions in control of various jobs at several companies. The highest priced union workers always are a good target for eliminate those jobs, or even to drastically reduce the numbers. You can alway justify the price of the contract and the stuff it takes to get it done.
 
I favor unions, collective bargaining, protecting striking workers from violence, etc.

Infestation is a good word for a parasite that isn't wanted.

In some towns, the only employer of note is a company infected by a union. Infected? Infested. Either works.

Seems to me that if there is only one employer, and the employee is 'forced' to work there for lack of other opportunities, then that's exactly when a union would be most needed.

barfo
 
Seems to me that if there is only one employer, and the employee is 'forced' to work there for lack of other opportunities, then that's exactly when a union would be most needed.

barfo
Why aren't you pro choice? I am.

The infestation here eliminates choice. It could be the company treats the workers as best as they can, while the infestation of manufacturing by unions has driven our manufacturing base elsewhere.

I do understand that you believe the company should lose money for the workers' benefit. "Liberals" don't understand economics, barfo. The company goes bankrupt and closes down and the workers lose everything. Way to go!

DETROIT. That says it all.
 
Naw, public employee unions contributing to the politicians they need to negotiate with is not American! It is an unholy alliance of corruption and the major reason the public is saddled with huge unfunded liabilities.
Bullshit. What could be more American. Justice goes to the highest bidder and has since this country was founded. It's called "Capitalism". Unions exist in an effort to level the playing field. And it still isn't even close. Really read the history of organized labor. The unions learned every one of their tricks (dirty or otherwise) at the feet of their corporate masters. Big business has only themselves to blame for organized labor and it can't be argued otherwise. And as far as unfounded liabilities go........as much as you and most everyone else would like to blame the public employee unions, that is far and away one of the biggest political fallacies in existence. If there really and truly are unfounded liabilities, the vast majority of the blame goes to the politicians and bureaucrats. They created the situation by refusing to pay reasonable wages. When they couldn't recruit talent, they (not the unions) created the PERS system because it was cheaper than paying up front. It snowballed from there. I spent 30 years in the public sector (and five years in the private sector working in a public facility). Not even once in all those years did the unions EVER bargain for retirement benefits when it came time to negotiate a contract. Instead, it was the public employer voluntarily offering the retirement in lieu of improving pay and other benefits because, as noted, it was cheaper up front. Now (supposedly) the bill has come due and all of a sudden it's the public employee union's fault. Talk about revisionist history....They only took what was offered. Your "corruption" is, in reality, nothing more than political stupidity and shortsightedness. And it was all started by the Republicans....the Democrats just picked up the ball and ran with it......and FWIW, I fought with every union I ever belonged to because they have the wrongheaded idea that the union members work for them, rather than the other way around. I just couldn't bend over for that. But I still respected their right to exist......and I appreciated their efforts on my behalf.
 
Geez! I think you just made my case. What are you all worked up about?
 

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