Crash The Tea Party!

[BLAZER PROPHET]

As seen in the Oregonian today, a local Beaverton teacher (registered democrat- for what it's worth, as reported on the radio) has a web site he runs from school called Crash The Tea Party. He outlines how to infiltrate it, make signs with mis spellings for their ralies to make them look stupid (as if they needed a lot of help...), lie about being members of the party to media and making idiot remarks...

I'm a big free speech person, but is it outside the ropes to infiltrate opposing political movements and try to sabotage them from within? Is it right to use public resources to do so?

It seems to me that the Tea Party will either fizzle out (like almost all the others) or remain pretty much what they are.

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

 

[Paxil]

Was there a connection in the Oregonion that he is running that website *from school*? I haven't read it... but if so I think that is wrong. If he is just a teacher doing that in their own time then who cares.

I think the infiltration is bad form. Stand in opposition if you choose... but infiltrating isn't playing fair... very poor form and it reflects worse on the people doing it and what they stand for.

 

[mook]

Looks like it's starting to go viral. The oldest post in that forum dates to April 9th, and now there are 17,000 posts and 3,600 users. That's a hell of a nice growth curve for being around 6 days. I guess a feature on the home page of Digg and a couple AP stories will do that.

Anyway, I don't really see a problem with it. It'll force the group to look more carefully at the really radical elements within it with a suspicious eye, which isn't a bad thing. If it really wants to succeed, it should try to steer clear of the dead end issues that just sound silly anyway.

If I were trying to lead the Tea Party, I'd look at the hippie movement of the late 60's/early 70's. (Yeah, kind of ironic, right?) The nutty radicals in that movement in many ways prevented it from being palatable to the mainstream. You don't convince average Joe Public to join your team by spitting on Vietnam veterans. Just like you don't do it by declaring Obama is a Muslim Kenyan anti-christ.

If they stick to basic messages about the size and role of government, the Tea Party has a much better chance of not fizzling out. Kind of funny to think this anti-Tea Partier might just force them to do that.

 

[maxiep]

Looks like it's starting to go viral. The oldest post in that forum dates to April 9th, and now there are 17,000 posts and 3,600 users. That's a hell of a nice growth curve for being around 6 days. I guess a feature on the home page of Digg and a couple AP stories will do that.

Anyway, I don't really see a problem with it. It'll force the group to look more carefully at the really radical elements within it with a suspicious eye, which isn't a bad thing. If it really wants to succeed, it should try to steer clear of the dead end issues that just sound silly anyway.

If I were trying to lead the Tea Party, I'd look at the hippie movement of the late 60's/early 70's. (Yeah, kind of ironic, right?) The nutty radicals in that movement in many ways prevented it from being palatable to the mainstream. You don't convince average Joe Public to join your team by spitting on Vietnam veterans. Just like you don't do it by declaring Obama is a Muslim Kenyan anti-christ.

If they stick to basic messages about the size and role of government, the Tea Party has a much better chance of not fizzling out. Kind of funny to think this anti-Tea Partier might just force them to do that.

You're making the mistake of believing this is a top-down movement. It's bottom-up. There's no leadership; it's completely organic. And like it or not, organic means messy, which means the crazies hop aboard. The key is to look at the majority, not the freaks on the fringe.

 

[Eastoff]

You're making the mistake of believing this is a top-down movement. It's bottom-up. There's no leadership; it's completely organic. And like it or not, organic means messy, which means the crazies hop aboard. The key is to look at the majority, not the freaks on the fringe.

I'm assuming you're talking about the teaparty. If so, I would argue it stopped being a bottom-up movement when Fox "News" starting using their own time and money to make advertisements for it.

 

[mook]

You're making the mistake of believing this is a top-down movement. It's bottom-up. There's no leadership; it's completely organic. And like it or not, organic means messy, which means the crazies hop aboard. The key is to look at the majority, not the freaks on the fringe.

And as long as it has no organization, it's going to be about as relevant to mainstream politics as the hippie movement was. Impacting some elections here and there, but never really moving the middle much. Because it'll forever be defined by its lunatic fringes. (Well, by everybody but maybe Fox news. And if Fox News was really good at molding general public opinion McCain would be president and the Democrats wouldn't hold majorities in both houses.)

It's not fair, but that's how it works.

 

[Ed O]

One primary difference between the hippies and the tea partiers is that there's no real expiration date. This is not young people who are idealistic. This is people who have had a set of core beliefs for some time that now feel like things are getting too far away from what they want.

It's possible that, should things continue in the direction they've been going (and not just under Obama) that there will be disenchantment from within, a thinking that their efforts are useless. There's also the chance that the fringe wackos that have been focused on by so many who oppose some of the key messages will be marginalized and the movement will grow.

Ed O.

 

[Eastoff]

One primary difference between the hippies and the tea partiers is that there's no real expiration date. This is not young people who are idealistic. This is people who have had a set of core beliefs for some time that now feel like things are getting too far away from what they want.

It's possible that, should things continue in the direction they've been going (and not just under Obama) that there will be disenchantment from within, a thinking that their efforts are useless. There's also the chance that the fringe wackos that have been focused on by so many who oppose some of the key messages will be marginalized and the movement will grow.

Ed O.

wrong, it's old people ready to die

 

[Stevenson]

vbhp

 

[Shooter]

One primary difference between the hippies and the tea partiers is that there's no real expiration date. This is not young people who are idealistic. This is people who have had a set of core beliefs for some time that now feel like things are getting too far away from what they want.

Agreed. I would even argue that the hippie movement was less "idealistic" than many have argued. Being a hippie was largely about hanging out, smoking pot, and having lots of sex. The "core belief" was "Let's party." The Tea Party members, on the other hand, are much more serious, much more angry, and much more devoted to higher ideals like limited government, capitalism, and the Constitution.

It's possible that, should things continue in the direction they've been going (and not just under Obama) that there will be disenchantment from within, a thinking that their efforts are useless. There's also the chance that the fringe wackos that have been focused on by so many who oppose some of the key messages will be marginalized and the movement will grow.

Agreed, again. I'm on the verge of joining the Tea Party myself, and I've been a Republican for most of my life. I feel the Republican party has sold out most of its conservative principles, and I have little use for them. Give me some leadership that really believes in something!

 

[mook]

One primary difference between the hippies and the tea partiers is that there's no real expiration date. This is not young people who are idealistic. This is people who have had a set of core beliefs for some time that now feel like things are getting too far away from what they want.

The NYT/CBS just conducted a poll of the teapartiers that's pretty interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?src=me&ref=general

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated
Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45.

So in a sense you are right. These people aren't going to change like a hippie might evolve into a 1980's wall street broker.

However, America just isn't manufacturing a lot of new ones. It's a generational thing, a group of people pining for the days of Ronald Reagan. A lot of people under 40 don't really remember that era, and when the crowds start shouting "Socialist! Communist!" it sounds about as antiquated as calling somebody "Beatnik!" or "Whig!"

So there is an expiration date on this group. As the country becomes less Caucasian and it continues to raise more generations that stare at the extremists among the Teapartiers in bewilderment, their influence will continue to shrink.

Unless, like I said, the movement can figure out a way to weed out the extremists and convey an image that has a more diverse appeal.

 

[mook]

Agreed. I would even argue that the hippie movement was less "idealistic" than many have argued. Being a hippie was largely about hanging out, smoking pot, and having lots of sex. The "core belief" was "Let's party." The Tea Party members, on the other hand, are much more serious, much more angry, and much more devoted to higher ideals like limited government, capitalism, and the Constitution

A lot of hippies' core belief was that they didn't want to get shot and killed in Vietnam. That seems like a pretty serious concern.

I mean, obviously not as serious as a health insurance proposal, but still pretty serious.

 

[Shooter]

It's a generational thing, a group of people pining for the days of Ronald Reagan.

You mean the way liberals pine for the days of Bill Clinton? Or the way leftists revere Che Gueverra and Fidel Castro? Hmmm. I guess it's a generational thing.

A lot of people under 40 don't really remember that era, and when the crowds start shouting "Socialist! Communist!" it sounds about as antiquated as calling somebody "Beatnik!" or "Whig!"

That's okay. They just have to be educated. The same people who don't know what these terms mean also couldn't tell you who the vice president is or how many states there are in the union.

As the country becomes less Caucasian and it continues to raise more generations that stare at the extremists among the Teapartiers in bewilderment, their influence will continue to shrink.

So you think the idea of small government and lower taxes appeals only to people with white skin?? That's very odd. It's like saying that only black people like fried chicken.

Unless, like I said, the movement can figure out a way to weed out the extremists and convey an image that has a more diverse appeal.

Uh, did it ever occur to you that the mass media in this country is purposely depicting the Tea Party movement as a bunch of extremist whackos to further their own agenda?

 

[Shooter]

A lot of hippies' core belief was that they didn't want to get shot and killed in Vietnam.

Yep, that's definitely a high ideal. Save your skin and smoke pot. Now there's a rallying cry that will go down in history!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

One primary difference between the hippies and the tea partiers is that there's no real expiration date. This is not young people who are idealistic. This is people who have had a set of core beliefs for some time that now feel like things are getting too far away from what they want.

It's possible that, should things continue in the direction they've been going (and not just under Obama) that there will be disenchantment from within, a thinking that their efforts are useless. There's also the chance that the fringe wackos that have been focused on by so many who oppose some of the key messages will be marginalized and the movement will grow.

Ed O.

That's what I think. It's a short lived grass roots movement of people that have a general mistrust of government.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Agreed, again. I'm on the verge of joining the Tea Party myself, and I've been a Republican for most of my life. I feel the Republican party has sold out most of its conservative principles, and I have little use for them. Give me some leadership that really believes in something!

Really?

To me, a group that would actually court Sara Palin has serious issues. Very serious issues.

 

[Ed O]

The NYT/CBS just conducted a poll of the teapartiers that's pretty interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?src=me&ref=general

So in a sense you are right. These people aren't going to change like a hippie might evolve into a 1980's wall street broker.

However, America just isn't manufacturing a lot of new ones. It's a generational thing, a group of people pining for the days of Ronald Reagan. A lot of people under 40 don't really remember that era, and when the crowds start shouting "Socialist! Communist!" it sounds about as antiquated as calling somebody "Beatnik!" or "Whig!"

So there is an expiration date on this group. As the country becomes less Caucasian and it continues to raise more generations that stare at the extremists among the Teapartiers in bewilderment, their influence will continue to shrink.

Unless, like I said, the movement can figure out a way to weed out the extremists and convey an image that has a more diverse appeal.

Well, they can't weed those people out when there are people who are willing to dishonestly infiltrate and attempt to pollute the message many of them have.

I think they (as a group) just need to communicate the best they can, and the whackos will get weeded out over time.

As for the generational/general appeal: Ron Paul has a heck of a lot of appeal with young people. Why? I'm not sure. It's not just because they're white and wealthy, though.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

As for the generational/general appeal: Ron Paul has a heck of a lot of appeal with young people. Why? I'm not sure. It's not just because they're white and wealthy, though.

Mistrust of government is actually not a youth-unfriendly message. Defiance/mistrust of authority is a classic "young person" theme.

One could rework the old conservative witticism "If you aren't a Democrat before the age of 30, you have no heart. If you aren't a Republican after the age of 30, you have no brain" into a similar liberal/progressive one: "If you aren't a libertarian before the age of 30, you have no spine. If you aren't a progressive after the age of 30, you have no common sense."

Ultimately, I think Ron Paul is somewhat like Dennis Kucinich: they're both popular among young idealists, but for different reasons, because they have a clear and attractive message to many young people. They just don't win elections because they aren't perceived by the mainstream as having "moderate" solutions.

 

[hasoos]

Actually from what I have read about Tea Party Financials, I believe this is just a big scam by some folks to take advantage of people frustrated with the status quo. They have spent hardly any of their money on anything useful.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Actually from what I have read about Tea Party Financials, I believe this is just a big scam by some folks to take advantage of people frustrated with the status quo. They have spent hardly any of their money on anything useful.

that's a good idea!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Really?

To me, a group that would actually court Sara Palin has serious issues. Very serious issues.

This right here!

 

[bluefrog]

Agreed. I would even argue that the hippie movement was less "idealistic" than many have argued. Being a hippie was largely about hanging out, smoking pot, and having lots of sex. The "core belief" was "Let's party."

Hmm, this "hippie movement" sounds intriguing. I wish to learn more and subscribe to the newsletter.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hmm, this "hippie movement" sounds intriguing. I wish to learn more and subscribe to the newsletter.

They've been out of the newsletter for years, something about it being really popular because it was printed on hemp paper.

 

[Denny Crane]

How'd the crash the tea party thing go?

Didn't see any news after the protests, but saw a few articles about the DailyKOS/MSNBC nutjob types intending to mess with the protesters.

http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/04/14/source-state-dems-scrambling-to-deploy-tea-party-‘crashers’/

Source: State Dems scrambling to deploy tea party ‘crashers’ UPDATE: Sullivan denies

New Hampshire Democrats are engaged in a statewide search for liberal activists willing to attend so-called tea parties on Thursday and carry signs expressing racist or fringe sentiments, a Democratic source with knowledge of the effort tells NowHampshire.com.

According to the source, who sought anonymity for fear of reprisals, the Dems’ last minute scramble reflects a growing obsession among party leaders that they need to discredit the tea party movement soon or it will overwhelm them come the November election.

Former Democratic State Party Chairman Kathy Sullivan is heading up the search, the source said. Sullivan has been calling and e-mailing liberal activists trying to get them to attend tea parties in different parts of the state and hold signs denying the authenticity of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate and make racially disparaging comments to reporters.

“This is Kathy’s [Sullivan] project,” the source told NowHampshire.com. “She is absolutely obsessed with painting the tea party people as racists.”

Similar “crash the tea party” efforts are taking place throughout the country on Tax Day.

If she pulls it off, this won’t be the first time Sullivan has endeavored to manufacture a racist controversy regarding the tea party movement. Last month Sullivan and other Democratic leaders attempted to portray a “white pride” rally in Concord held by a Massachusetts-based white supremacist organization as a tea party. Sullivan was forced to retract her bogus accusation.

 

[barfo]

I'm on the verge of joining the Tea Party myself, and I've been a Republican for most of my life. I feel the Republican party has sold out most of its conservative principles, and I have little use for them. Give me some leadership that really believes in something!

I'm surprised you are only on the verge. You are a prime candidate, Shooter. Embrace the dark side. Be one with the teabaggers.

barfo

 

[MrJayremmie]

I'm on the verge of joining the Tea Party myself, and I've been a Republican for most of my life. I feel the Republican party has sold out most of its conservative principles, and I have little use for them. Give me some leadership that really believes in something!

You are just the type they are looking for.

 

[julius]

Actually from what I have read about Tea Party Financials, I believe this is just a big scam by some folks to take advantage of people frustrated with the status quo. They have spent hardly any of their money on anything useful.

So they're Democrats?

 

[MrJayremmie]