Cronin is a genius

[AngryFan]

If there was a path to being a contender and the Blazers as a franchise were actually serious about pursuing it they wouldn't be doing everything they can to stay under the tax. The Blazers aren't willing to spend what the top teams are and we keep trading for less and less talented players because of it.

 

[Pinwheel1]

We have ownership that won't go into the tax and are a franchise that has to overpay players to keep them after their rookie deals. We should be living through the draft.


I obviously meant in regards to being able to trade for the ingredients for a contender around Dame. Show me the path of how you leverage Sharpe into a contender?

Well, first of all, there are few players available every year that meet your criteria But I think if we would have included Sharpe in the Toronto discussion we could have had a shot at Siakam. Next year he might even bring more value. The point is we have assets if we want. But I would rather keep him

 

[AngryFan]

Well, first of all, there are few players available every year that meet your criteria But I think if we would have included Sharpe in the Toronto discussion we could have had a shot at Siakam. Next year he might even bring more value. The point is we have assets if we want. But I would rather keep him

I asked for a path to a contender and you propose a hypothetical for Siakam. Does not compute to me because we are not even close to just a Siakam away from contending. You could swap Siakam for Sharpe straight up and we wouldn't be contending, let alone after you gut what we would have to in order to get him.

 

[e_blazer]

If there was a path to being a contender and the Blazers as a franchise were actually serious about pursuing it they wouldn't be doing everything they can to stay under the tax. The Blazers aren't willing to spend what the top teams are and we keep trading for less and less talented players because of it.

Sorry, but that is just plain wrong. The reason the Blazers were so intent on staying under the tax this season was to avoid starting the luxury tax repeater penalties a year earlier than they have to. Those penalties are steep and impact what players can be acquired in order to complete the restocking of the Blazers' roster. The Blazers will be in the luxury tax next year and likely every year remaining on Dame's contract.

Cronin did what he could to set things up so that over the summer he can acquire one more top-flight starter without the need to trade one of his current top-3 guys (Lillard, Grant or Simons). The Raptors' asking price on OG Anunoby is instructive in what the current market price is for a guy that fits that bill:

"The Nets have been aware since July that Memphis was ready to trade every pick and swap of its own for Durant, sources said. (The Grizzlies have remained steadfast that Bane, Morant, and Jaren Jackson Jr. are 100% off the table in all talks, sources across the league said.) They didn't get far. Durant wanted the Suns, and the Nets worked with him to make that happen.

They offered three first-round picks to the Toronto Raptors for OG Anunoby, sources said, but Anunoby remains a Raptor. The Indiana Pacers also offered three first-round picks for Anunoby, sources said, but could not get a deal done. (The Pacers own extra picks from Boston and the Cleveland Cavaliers.) The Raptors made it clear in trade talks they wanted a high-level player or prospect along with draft picks in any Anunoby deal, sources said. The New Orleans Pelicans, another rumored Anunoby suitor, did not hold serious talks about him with the Raptors, sources said."

So now Cronin likely will have two first round picks, a bunch of second rounders, and young high-level players that he can include in making a run at OG or another player on his tier. He can also include Simons if he wants to try for the next really big player who hits the trade market.

 

[AngryFan]

The Blazers now have a roster that makes 45 million less than the likes of Golden State or the Clippers. To compete with those teams you have to go over the cap and stay over. You can't put off going over the cap and then just close that gap in a season or two.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The Blazers now have a roster that makes 45 million less than the likes of Golden State or the Clippers. To compete with those teams you have to go over the cap and stay over. You can't put off going over the cap and then just close that gap in a season or two.

The Warriors went way over the cap after they won and stayed that way. The Blazers need their full MLE to get better.

 

[Cugel]

Jody ain't spending that kind of money. The whole "build around Dame" is bullshit they are spinning. Nothing Jody Cronin has done since becoming GM has got the team any closer to contending. The idea that Jody Cronin will wave a magic wand and get somebody to take his horrible contracts is a pipe dream. You can't take a team that will have to play it's lone star into the ground to barely make the play-in all the way to the Finals over a summer. Never happen. There is nobody around the league/national media saying "oh Portland is getting there. Nice moves Joe/Jody". Zero. Only on this board will you hear "he is building around Dame, just wait." It's been a year already and nothing. This organization can't/won't do it.

 

[AngryFan]

The Warriors went way over the cap after they won and stayed that way. The Blazers need their full MLE to get better.

And the Clippers? Did they wait until they won a championship to go over too? Or are you just ignoring what you don't feel like responding to?

 

[Pinwheel1]

And the Clippers? Did they wait until they won a championship to go over too? Or are you just ignoring what you don't feel like responding to?

No, I was not trying to ignore it, I just thought it was obvious to everyone that Clippers went way under the cap in order to sign two stars. Then they went over to keep them and sign others.

 

[e_blazer]

And the Clippers? Did they wait until they won a championship to go over too? Or are you just ignoring what you don't feel like responding to?

Do you think any of the players that maybe could have been obtained before the deadline, given the assets that Cronin had available, would have made the Blazers contenders this season? Not likely. So why on earth would you want to start the repeater penalties a year early? I’ve already pointed out that the Blazers will be tax payers for the next several seasons. You’ve created a fiction in your mind that ownership is cheap when in reality it’s about making the smart plays for this summer’s moves.

 

[Samuel]

Blazers can trade Nurk, Little, Knox, and or Keon at the draft.

You make a good point about contract matching, or ‘counting’ as Cronin put it in his presser (ha)—but you also need to consider the small suitor list for a guy like Nurkic and the actual trade value (or lack thereof) of the other guys you listed. Knox is essentially a packageable TPE, Keon can’t get off the bench, and Little probably needs a change of scenery and system (and even then, his market value is low). Cronin would have to trade every pick in the book to get the player he’s looking for and sweeten that Little/Nurkic package. The Nets, meanwhile, got good players AND picks for Durant.

It’s much more likely that Ant is the mystery matching salary, IMO.

Samuel

 

[BassPlaya]

Its humorous to read about winning.....as if it is a movable goalpost. The greats, do not turn that on and off like a convenient switch. That what some fans do as they complain from their internet megaphone. Probably Dame's greatest ability, is his intolerance for losing. MJ was that way. Losing on purpose to gain later, is still losing....I don't give a rats ass how many ways you slice it.

Don't know whether Cronin is the guy. Don't know whether or not this roster and make it to the top before Dame recedes beyond significant contribution. But the one thing I know is, I hope they do whatever they can every game to win. It's why I follow the team. I'm not calling someone else wrong, I'm saying I could not see this any other way.

 

[Whyachi]

There are still ways to duck the tax next year too. Don't sleep on Cronin's ability to gut this team for financial purposes. He's got all summer to trade expensive Blazers for much cheaper players. We might get some picks and send certain fans into a frenzy, while they conjure up an imaginary wall of rookies to make the Blazers an imposing team to play against.

 

[Whyachi]

I mean trading Ant should absolutely be on the table.

1.) He has actual value.

2.) Sharpe has starter+ potential.

The ideal scenario is that Sharpe pops and Ant builds enough value to where we can actually move him + assets for a true all-star level wing. Lowe said on his podcast today there are a few (star) names that are teams are actively monitoring and likely to shake loose in the summer. No reporting from me, but Jaylen Brown? Siakam? KAT?

How about Anfernee for a future 1st, a random RFA and a retiring buyout? That would shave a bunch of cap space. Though I have the impression Nurk is on the hot seat. Official members of the Blazers press have been bashing Nurkic all season. I was surprised Cronin didn't move Jusuf at the trade deadline. I guess the GM couldn't find a sweet deal to save the Blazers money?

 

[Pinwheel1]

How about Anfernee for a future 1st, a random RFA and a retiring buyout? That would shave a bunch of cap space. Though I have the impression Nurk is on the hot seat. Official members of the Blazers press have been bashing Nurkic all season. I was surprised Cronin didn't move Jusuf at the trade deadline. I guess the GM couldn't find a sweet deal to save the Blazers money?

That would be a horrible move. How does that make us better?

 

[Whyachi]

That would be a horrible move. How does that make us better?

a 1st round pick!! They're all the rage when you have a franchise spinning out of control and a highly confused fan base that engage in chat room civil conflict.

 

[HailBlazers]

The Blazers are not spinning out of control. Quite opposite, Joe's unwinding the Olshey dizzy daze and has a plan to compete.

 

[Samuel]

How about Anfernee for a future 1st, a random RFA and a retiring buyout?

Ant for WCJ, one of their lotto picks, and Suggs? Both teams probably say no but it’s an idea. And if I’m Orlando I stay patient and build through the draft.

 

[Idog1976]

i'm thinking of this stuff in the context of us truly elevating to contender status.

and my thinking is that the only way is to trade for another borderline all star while keeping the core (dame/ant/jerami/sharpe) intact. exchanging one of ant or jerami or even sharpe for a similar caliber player but a better positional fit will not elevate us to contender level even if we improve from our current level.

yes, i'm sure guys will shake loose. you mentioned the one i'm keeping my eye on a guy and have been wanting to pair with dame for years: KAT.

Trading Sharpe for a borderline All-Star would be incredibly stupid. That kid has All-Star written all over him with Superstar potential. He's got the highest ceiling since Drexler.

 

[hoopsjock]

Do you think any of the players that maybe could have been obtained before the deadline, given the assets that Cronin had available, would have made the Blazers contenders this season? Not likely. So why on earth would you want to start the repeater penalties a year early? I’ve already pointed out that the Blazers will be tax payers for the next several seasons. You’ve created a fiction in your mind that ownership is cheap when in reality it’s about making the smart plays for this summer’s moves.

IMO this isn't the right question. All 4 players taken back at the deadline are soon to be free agents. We know for sure they turned down Wiseman and Saddiq Bey for GP2. There are rumors they turned down any players in the Knicks deal that had salary next year. There would have been options to do that and stay under the tax still.

So to me, that's a clear indication they weren't just dodging the cap this year because of next year. If they were resigned to be a tax team next year, why take fliers on Reddish and Thybulle but not take a flier on Wiseman? At worst, he'd be a $12 million expiring contract for trades next year. For a team desperate for size, maybe he shows something and has a bit of value in a trade this summer, allowing Cronin to pull off a deal that wouldn't have otherwise been available.

Those are the exact types of risks a team like Portland HAS to take in their situation. Instead it looks like they're already trying to duck the tax again next year, even with a Grant extension.

 

[Samuel]

I never understood the immortal hype around Wiseman. With Reddish I can blur my eyes and see a role/rotation player once he experiences ego death in 3-4 years (not on the Blazers). With Wiseman, I’m not sure he has the defensive chops to be a big in the NBA. The Detroit experience will be telling.

Saddiq Bey is an average player you do ‘not’ want to pay (Detroit didn’t), and I’m not sure I trust the jumper. 3?D?

I’d rather have the picks, tbh.

 

[hoopsjock]

I never understood the immortal hype around Wiseman. With Reddish I can blur my eyes and see a role/rotation player once he experiences ego death in 3-4 years (not on the Blazers). With Wiseman, I’m not sure he has the defensive chops to be a big in the NBA. The Detroit experience will be telling.

I’d rather have the picks, tbh.

Several of the picks likely won't convey, so even that is misleading, but it's missing my point about Wiseman.

If the Blazers miss the playoffs and Wiseman sucks, they'd then have a $12 million expiring contract to attach their lotto pick and the Knicks pick to. Then they're in a situation where instead of giving up one of their core in a deal, they could potentially get a good player back while keeping the players they don't want to trade like Ant and Sharpe.

That's how you build rosters.

 

[Samuel]

I just said ‘picks’ not ‘5 picks’. A couple of those are vaporware. No one is being misleading (though sorry if you felt misled, I guess?).

And I’m not missing the point around Wiseman. You mentioned that you think Wiseman is still an upside flier. I don’t—not in this system anyway. The bar isn’t high but there is still some modicum of pressure to win. In that context he’s not going to ‘show something’ or ‘have value’. I’d rather have the picks than RLEC/Bledsoe 2.0.

Sure, salary matching is a thing. I also don’t know if 4 massive contracts (assuming Cronin’s illusory target star is the 4th) as the basis for your roster makes much sense for this team anyway if you’re keeping Ant and Dame and still interested in developing Sharpe. That’s many millions of dollars in skill overlap.

 

[Hoopguru]

IMO this isn't the right question. All 4 players taken back at the deadline are soon to be free agents. We know for sure they turned down Wiseman and Saddiq Bey for GP2. There are rumors they turned down any players in the Knicks deal that had salary next year. There would have been options to do that and stay under the tax still.

So to me, that's a clear indication they weren't just dodging the cap this year because of next year. If they were resigned to be a tax team next year, why take fliers on Reddish and Thybulle but not take a flier on Wiseman? At worst, he'd be a $12 million expiring contract for trades next year. For a team desperate for size, maybe he shows something and has a bit of value in a trade this summer, allowing Cronin to pull off a deal that wouldn't have otherwise been available.

Those are the exact types of risks a team like Portland HAS to take in their situation. Instead it looks like they're already trying to duck the tax again next year, even with a Grant extension.

I would have liked Bey instead of Knox. With Badji not sure we needed Wiseman. Im high on Badji.
I see Cronin pulling the trigger during the offseason if the right established player is available.

 

[Samuel]

With Badji not sure we needed Wiseman. Im high on Badji.

Oh my god, please preach me the gospel of Badji. I want to feel something. The YouTube clips weren’t enough to Show Me The Way.

 

[Hoopguru]

Oh my god, please preach me the gospel of Badji. I want to feel something. The YouTube clips weren’t enough to Show Me The Way.

Best kept secret in the assoc. He's been hurt and stashed away, just turned 20.
He's a combo of TGF, Siakam & Bam........
9'10" standing reach and still growing
Decent footwork already, nice fadaway, his motor is flashed.
He will be an all star by the time he's 23....
Alleluia

 

[Samuel]

Best kept secret in the assoc. He's been hurt and stashed away, just turned 20.
He's a combo of TGF, Siakam & Bam........
9'10" standing reach and still growing
Decent footwork already, nice fadaway, his motor is flashed.
He will be an all star by the time he's 23....

Subscribe. Hopefully we can get a peek at him at some point.

 

[Hoopguru]

Subscribe. Hopefully we can get a peek at him at some point.

Summer league?

 

[wizenheimer]

IMO this isn't the right question. All 4 players taken back at the deadline are soon to be free agents. We know for sure they turned down Wiseman and Saddiq Bey for GP2. There are rumors they turned down any players in the Knicks deal that had salary next year. There would have been options to do that and stay under the tax still.

So to me, that's a clear indication they weren't just dodging the cap this year because of next year. If they were resigned to be a tax team next year, why take fliers on Reddish and Thybulle but not take a flier on Wiseman? At worst, he'd be a $12 million expiring contract for trades next year. For a team desperate for size, maybe he shows something and has a bit of value in a trade this summer, allowing Cronin to pull off a deal that wouldn't have otherwise been available.

Those are the exact types of risks a team like Portland HAS to take in their situation. Instead it looks like they're already trying to duck the tax again next year, even with a Grant extension.

I think you're making some assumptions, that may or may not be accurate, and drawing some conclusions based upon those assumptions

to start with, enough of the stuff about 'kicking the tires' on Wiseman. The basketball minds of the Warriors obviously thought he was a giant bust. The few times I've seen him play he was a non-factor. There was no reason to add his 12.3M salary to next season's payroll

Saddiq Bey? Well, for me the question is what package had the most 2nd unit potential....

Reddish + Thybulle
Reddish + Bey
Wiseman

while you are seeing tax reasons, I can see basketball reasons

that's not to say that Cronin isn't operating under instructions from Seattle to be mindful of the tax. I think he probably is. But to see any meaning in Reddish + Thybulle vs the alternatives may be reading more into the situation then there is

 

[Samuel]

Summer league?

Yes, please. Edey v. Badji would be a fun matchup.

But would love a few games with him this season in uniform without expiring his 2-way eligibility.