Cut Military spending?

[magnifier661]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

We aren't even the 5th largest military in the world. This has become a huge problem in my mind.

I understand we have some of the most advanced weaponry; but if even more spending is cut; that advancement will go with it. We need to get our military back on track. Cut other shit like Welfare and force them to enlist, instead of living off our wealth.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Yes, more war please. Ooh and let's force all the poor to fight in them.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes, more war please. Ooh and let's force all the poor to fight in them.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. We don't have to go to war; but we need to let other countries know that we are still a strong country.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, more war please. Ooh and let's force all the poor to fight in them.

You ought to run for office on that platform.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've said this before, but I would drastically alter our military.

#1: I would pull back our troops from every base except Naval bases.

#2: I would maintain the Navy as it is. Having the strongest Navy is paramount to being the most powerful.

#3: I would cut down our standing Army to almost nothing. I would only leave the Ranger battalions and the Spec Ops units.

#4: Marines would remain the same as I consider them to be connected to the Navy.

#5: Air Force would be cut down to what is only necessary. Transport units, logistics, and bomber squadrons.

I consider the Navy and Marines to be key to maintaining power around the globe. I do not think we need a huge standing Army. If anything, I would give more money to National Guard units and improve their training. I have experience with the Guard, and it's not pretty.

 

[Paxil]

We spend 4 times what any other country does on military. The number of people doesn't really matter much.

 

[tlongII]

I think the Air Force is the key to being the most powerful in today's world.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

We aren't even the 5th largest military in the world. This has become a huge problem in my mind.

I understand we have some of the most advanced weaponry; but if even more spending is cut; that advancement will go with it. We need to get our military back on track. Cut other shit like Welfare and force them to enlist, instead of living off our wealth.

When has our military been off track?

And we don't have some of the most advanced weaponry, we have the most advanced weaponry.

Instead of looking at how many people we have in the military why not look at how much we spend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_spending

We could cut spending in half (Which I'm not saying we should do) and we'd still be spending twice as much as the next country. We spend more on the military then the next 14 countries combined.

Look at high ticket items like aircraft carriers, out greatest threats, Russia and China each have 1. We have 12. We also have 2 in reserve and are currently building 3 more.

Where is our military off track? What conflict or war do we not currently have enough equipment or troops to engage in?

 

[magnifier661]

When has our military been off track?

And we don't have some of the most advanced weaponry, we have the most advanced weaponry.

Instead of looking at how many people we have in the military why not look at how much we spend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_spending

We could cut spending in half (Which I'm not saying we should do) and we'd still be spending twice as much as the next country. We spend more on the military then the next 14 countries combined.

Look at high ticket items like aircraft carriers, out greatest threats, Russia and China each have 1. We have 12. We also have 2 in reserve and are currently building 3 more.

Where is our military off track? What conflict or war do we not currently have enough equipment or troops to engage in?

Bite me! Okay I rescind my "Off track" comment.

 

[speeds]

Enlistment:

China: 1/282 people
India: 1/255 people
USA: 1/142 people
Russia: 1/41 people
North Korea: 1/3 people

Pretty good for a volunteer military. The pay for low ranking military personnel is shameful, though.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think the Air Force is the key to being the most powerful in today's world.

Historically, the nation with the most powerful navy has been the most powerful. That could be changing now with air power, but with the Navy you have virtually everything the Air Force has, but it's mobile. Aircraft Carriers, nuclear subs, destroyers, they're all extremely powerful, but mobile. Paired with the MEU, we really don't need to have a huge air force or army.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Enlistment:

China: 1/282 people
India: 1/255 people
USA: 1/142 people
Russia: 1/41 people
North Korea: 1/3 people

Pretty good for a volunteer military. The pay for low ranking military personnel is shameful, though.

This is exactly what I wanted to see (the ratios); thanks for providing!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think we can easily cut military spending after we're out of Iraq and Afgahnistan.

 

[speeds]

I think we can easily cut military spending after we're out of Iraq and Afgahnistan.

You have 36,000 military personnel plus support staff in Japan. Hundreds? of international bases. More in secret. Without sounding too much like Ron Paul, those would be a good start.

 

[oldguy]

I think we should have to register our weapons with the UN, and they can decide what is appropriate.

Go Blazers

 

[Natebishop3]

You have 36,000 military personnel plus support staff in Japan. Hundreds? of international bases. More in secret. Without sounding too much like Ron Paul, those would be a good start.

Like I said, the Naval bases should stay, but I think we can easily pull out of a lot of other places. I'm sick of other countries bashing us while we help them. I think we should stop giving financial and military aid to other countries. Let them see what it's like.

 

[magnifier661]

Like I said, the Naval bases should stay, but I think we can easily pull out of a lot of other places. I'm sick of other countries bashing us while we help them. I think we should stop giving financial and military aid to other countries. Let them see what it's like.

That's a good proposal. I'm tired of them bashing us too.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's a good proposal. I'm tired of them bashing us too.

Check out this interactive map of foreign aid for 2012.

http://foreignassistance.gov/CountryIntro.aspx

"United States recently has continued to pump around $50 billion in aid to other countries each year."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/us-foreign-aid-by-country_n_1837824.html

 

[Denny Crane]

We've got drones.

 

[Natebishop3]

We've got drones.

Exactly. Cut the miliitary and spend it all on our army of robots!

 

[speeds]

Drones are people.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I am in favor of drone/drone marriage.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'd love it...and most of what NateBishop said I've been saying for years. (I'd cut the Marines down as well, but nothing like the Army and Air Force).

(And we've been out of Iraq since Dec. 18, 2011).

China has more submarines than we do (the largest sub fleet in the world). Ours are bigger and better (and more expensive), but they have more. And before you say "they're mostly crappy old diesel boats", they have about half as many nuclear-powered ballistic missile subs as we do. And they're spending rapidly.

Another issue is that China's "published" budget numbers a) don't match expenditures and b) don't take into account myriad things that ours does, for instance, foreign military purchases. If the Chinese buy a sub or plane or tank from the Russians, it doesn't count against their budget. Much of their capital defense spending (new bases, R&D, etc) aren't accounted for in their budget. DoD estimated last year that of the $115B "published" number actually entailed between $140-190B. China has publicized that they plan to increase defense spending by 10% per year, with a disproportionate amount of growth put into making their navy into a "Top 5 Navy" by 2030 and a "Top 3 Navy" by 2049.

As our defense spending decreases (just continuing the trend line--without even discussing the "deep" cuts we're talking about here) and China's increases (with a large portion going to the Navy), by 2016 China's Naval Spending could easily be more than 50% of ours. And they're a theater force, not a global force. That's not even bringing up Russia's modernization efforts to get to 30 front-line nuclear subs (all less than a decade old) by 2020.

Some open-source links (I don't agree with all of the strategies or arguments posted, but they have some stats and references):
http://thediplomat.com/the-naval-di...-to-make-of-chinas-defense-spending-increase/
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...should-respond-to-the-chinese-naval-challenge
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/20130522.aspx

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'd love it...and most of what NateBishop said I've been saying for years. (I'd cut the Marines down as well, but nothing like the Army and Air Force).

(And we've been out of Iraq since Dec. 18, 2011).

China has more submarines than we do (the largest sub fleet in the world). Ours are bigger and better (and more expensive), but they have more. And before you say "they're mostly crappy old diesel boats", they have about half as many nuclear-powered ballistic missile subs as we do. And they're spending rapidly.

Another issue is that China's "published" budget numbers a) don't match expenditures and b) don't take into account myriad things that ours does, for instance, foreign military purchases. If the Chinese buy a sub or plane or tank from the Russians, it doesn't count against their budget. Much of their capital defense spending (new bases, R&D, etc) aren't accounted for in their budget. DoD estimated last year that of the $115B "published" number actually entailed between $140-190B. China has publicized that they plan to increase defense spending by 10% per year, with a disproportionate amount of growth put into making their navy into a "Top 5 Navy" by 2030 and a "Top 3 Navy" by 2049.

As our defense spending decreases (just continuing the trend line--without even discussing the "deep" cuts we're talking about here) and China's increases (with a large portion going to the Navy), by 2016 China's Naval Spending could easily be more than 50% of ours. And they're a theater force, not a global force. That's not even bringing up Russia's modernization efforts to get to 30 front-line nuclear subs (all less than a decade old) by 2020.

Some open-source links (I don't agree with all of the strategies or arguments posted, but they have some stats and references):
http://thediplomat.com/the-naval-di...-to-make-of-chinas-defense-spending-increase/
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...should-respond-to-the-chinese-naval-challenge
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/20130522.aspx

According to this we have 14 missle subs and China has 5. We have 57 attack subs and China has 55. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_warships_in_service_worldwide

Also a lot of the stuff they buy from Russia is old. The aircraft carrier they have was a 20yr old Russian one that they never finished building.

 

[BrianFromWA]

They have 6 and we have 14. If they had one more it would be half, so I said "almost half".

(Edit: looks like they retired the Xia, so they're back to 5. I hadn't read this year's CRS assessment here: Page 42 has the 2010 levels and 2015 projections)

They're already landing planes on that carrier, 20 years old or not, about 4 years ahead of projected schedule.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Greatest number of riflemen =/= Military strength.

 

[BrianFromWA]

True. If you believe Iosif Vissarionovich, though, often times quantity has a quality all its own.

 

[Denny Crane]

Greatest number of musketeers =/= military strength.

 

[MarAzul]

Well we must build a few ships so we retain the capability to build ships. No doubt the same is true for fighter aircraft and drones. We probably have a bomber fleet serviceable for the next 50 years. So we can give up that industry. Kicking out smart bombs and stand off missiles out the rear of a cargo planes seem good enough anyway to cover where the Navy attack air craft leave off.

Yes cut the Military down after stripping the government of useless things like Dept of Education, Energy, and chunks of all other. Cut it down to where we match revenue. Oh my gosh, we could call it balanced.

 

[MARIS61]

Cut military spending by 80%. Purely defensive capability, no more "policing" the world.