Dame all but demanding vet roster

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TBpup said:
When did good judgement (Jackson's case) become collusion? It would be insane to offer him that much guaranteed money for that many years? Just because a couple of idiot owners did it with Watson and Murray doesn't mean the rest of the owners have to be as clueless.
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Kapernick wasn't collusion either.
The talent level did not exceed the headache level.
 
Being the 'best player in franchise history' says more about the Blazers history than anything tho. That status is partly tied to the fact that historically the Blazers rarely bottom out and actually get top end picks... and when they have got them they've squandered them.

Dame has been in the league 11 years. In that time his career has crossed over with the careers of James, Curry, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Paul, Harden, Tatum, Jimmy, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Kawhi, Durant, Wade, Howard, Davis, Westbrook, Shai, Luka. That is 20+ players clearly above or at his level of play and I'm probably forgetting a few. That is 20+ 'generational' talents in the league in 11 years.
 
Dame has shown extremely rare loyalty to a small franchise. I personally think that buys him some slack to finally demanding talent around him. Had this been Durant he would have left after first contract. I think this is slippery slope bad mouthing his desire to put a contending roster around him shouldn’t be something we complain about he wants championship here. Love that! That said if we trade him it can’t just be to where he wants with shitty deal coming back to Blazers. I assume he’ll give 4-5 teams he’d like to play for and then Blazers go out and see what the best deal is they can get for him.

teams I can see him wanting trade to that make sense for us
Lakers- all they have is future draft picks way down on my list especially since I hate them. Their picks might be valuable 3-5 years down road when Lebron is done
Jazz- lots of assets to trade and picks
Heat- IMO they would be front runner
Bucks
Sixers
Boston
NY-maybe but not really a contender
Phoenix- don’t think they can give us what we’d want back they don’t have assets
 
Riley needs scoring and we need defense, trade Simons and some for Butler.
 
BlazerBender said:
Collin Kapernick and Lamar Jackson say hello.
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I'm not sure either are close to a great example of Dame's value around the league. And if you're someone who believes Kap is out of the league due to political reasons (a debate I won't touch), I do not believe Dame has done anything to put him in that category.

I'm comfortable saying I don't think NFL GM's are colluding to make a collective statement about a players political stance or negotiation practices. I believe the stance is based off what they believe is in their teams best interest.
 
PCmor7 said:
He's not going to come out and say he wants them to be reckless and make bad moves, of course. Why would he say that? Why would he want that?

And sure, he's pushing for the team to win a championship. The problem is his idea of how to accomplish that might be pushing the team farther from a championship.

The issue is that he has a bias or preference that eliminates a potential avenue to what he wants, and, like most prejudices, there's just nothing factually to support eliminating that player pool from helping Dame and the Blazers to get to a championship.

I think of it a bit like baseball with the Negro Leagues. We know they have great players but we're not signing them because of skin color. It's not rational to say "I don't want to draft 19-year-olds" when we drafted a 19-year-old this year who looks like he can help the Blazers to their goal and that we drafted the guy running in the backcourt with him now as a 19-year-old.

It really should be Player A vs. Player B. That's it.

If Dame has a preference and it's going to be a distraction ... and he's got people here and nationally talking about his comment, so it's definitely a distraction ... then I think it's fine to let him go.
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I agree Dame has a bias in terms of roster construction. Cronin, Billups, and Jody also have bias regarding that as well. Us fans, we have a bias also.

As I said in my previous post, I hope Cronin looks at all options and picks the best one. Dame wanting this franchise to put a competitive roster around him seems like perfectly reasonable request. Doesn't mean Cronin will do or can do it.
 
Tince said:
I agree Dame has a bias in terms of roster construction. Cronin, Billups, and Jody also have bias regarding that as well. Us fans, we have a bias also.

As I said in my previous post, I hope Cronin looks at all options and picks the best one. Dame wanting this franchise to put a competitive roster around him seems like perfectly reasonable request. Doesn't mean Cronin will do or can do it.
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My bias is making the Blazers better.

And Dame's want doesn't mean he has a great idea on how to accomplish it. The fact that he's setting parameters on how to go about it and that following those parameters could both accomplish nothing now and put us in a hole after he's gone on to life after basketball is problematic.
 
The request is reasonable, so long as he's not married to the request and understands we aren't in an NBA that's working with us to accomplish his goals in his ways and he has to be open to putting together the best team no matter what the age, race, experience, political party, favorite forum and hair color are.
 
PCmor7 said:
My bias is making the Blazers better.

And Dame's want doesn't mean he has a great idea on how to accomplish it. The fact that he's setting parameters on how to go about it and that following those parameters could both accomplish nothing now and put us in a hole after he's gone on to life after basketball is problematic.
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Agreed he may not have a great idea on how to accomplish it. Odds are, he knows a lot more of the ins and outs of the league than anyone on here who thinks they know the best way is to keep him or trade him.

We agree that what Dame wants MAY not be best for the franchise. There is a world where the franchise has played it ultra safe for a decade and a nudge from their superstar and combined with his own recruiting actually give them the best chance to make a move to be competitive.

I'm trying to think of a better player in the last 30 years who spent a decade plus with one franchise, was given less of a supporting cast than Dame, and was also less pushy than he has been. Any narrative that he's become overly demanding seems way off base to me.

Again, he may not get what he wants and he or the franchise may decide to go in different directions, but I can't blame Dame for advocating.
 
As good as Lillard is he has not been able to move the needle in regards to persuasion to bring big time players to Portland.
 
After playing with team USA Dame networked, he knows the difference between playing with impact players and playing with guys still figuring it out. Makes total sensee that he wants a roster that is plug and play and not 3 seasons away from winning at the highest level...I'd expect nothing more from a franchise player of Dame's caliber...he's not pressuring anybody to do anything and he's repeated over and over that as far as basketball goes....he's already won. He's got the bag and the max deal and the keys to the city and he knows there are worse situations to be in in the league than Portland. He's not going anywhere and he's right....we need three or four impact vets on our roster that are rotation players and not students. The worst thing the team could do is trade Dame for rookies in my view. Blowing it up is the same as tanking to me. No thanks.
 
Tince said:
Agreed he may not have a great idea on how to accomplish it. Odds are, he knows a lot more of the ins and outs of the league than anyone on here who thinks they know the best way is to keep him or trade him.

We agree that what Dame wants MAY not be best for the franchise. There is a world where the franchise has played it ultra safe for a decade and a nudge from their superstar and his own recruiting actually give them the best chance to make a move to be competitive.

I'm trying to think of a better player in the last 30 years who spent a decade plus with one franchise, was given less of a supporting cast than Dame, and was also less pushy than he has been. Any narrative that he's become overly demanding seems way off base to me.

Again, he may not get what he wants and he or the franchise may decide to go in different directions, but I can't blame Dame for advocating.
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Unfortunately, this is going to come across overly condescending, but it's really meant to just get to the heart of things.

It doesn't matter.

Dame's path doesn't matter. Dame's loyalty to the Blazers doesn't matter. That the Blazers haven't put better teams around Dame doesn't matter. And, for the record, they've tried ... they've tried the way for which Dame is advocating more than they've tried to go the way he doesn't, actually.

Dame is a player on a team that was around decades before he was born and will be around long after he's left. He's been rewarded in myriad ways and is on the short list of the most lucrative contracts in the league. The team, it appears, has given him a lot of input in the direction of the Blazers.

He's not owed anything, though. At least, not until he actually buys the Blazers.

I worked 30 years for a company once that tried to guilt me into doing something that clashed with both my values and better judgment by saying how I owed them my loyalty, that they gave me a chance when I was starting out. My reply was this: I produced for you and you paid me for that. If I wasn't productive, smart business would be to let me go. I work for you, but I do not belong to you.

It's a trade-off, and there are hundreds of players in this league that wish they'd have been compensated for their efforts as well as has Damian Lillard.

The odds would suggest Dame knows a lot about the ins and outs of the league. That's certainly true. Does that make him an expert on the composition of a winning team? I haven't seen evidence of that. And I think essentially telling all the NBA and sports that he wants it done this way and putting the Blazers in a situation which puts the organization in a corner, which hurts its leverage, which limits the avenues to make the team better actually steams over the towline Dame laid with this organization over the last decade.

He's certainly entitled to his opinion and the team itself seems to value his insight. However, making a statement like this in public is anti the Damian we've come to know and impedes the organizations very efforts to make him a winner here.

Dame wants Portland to be a winner, but the message he's sent clearly is that he's above the organization. If the organization feels differently and finds a good trade for him because it better suits those goals than trying to win his way, no one including Damian Lillard should have a problem with it now.
 
PCmor7 said:
Unfortunately, this is going to come across overly condescending, but it's really meant to just get to the heart of things.

It doesn't matter.

Dame's path doesn't matter. Dame's loyalty to the Blazers doesn't matter. That the Blazers haven't put better teams around Dame doesn't matter. And, for the record, they've tried ... they've tried the way for which Dame is advocating more than they've tried to go the way he doesn't, actually.

Dame is a player on a team that was around decades before he was born and will be around long after he's left. He's been rewarded in myriad ways and is on the short list of the most lucrative contracts in the league. The team, it appears, has given him a lot of input in the direction of the Blazers.

He's not owed anything, though. At least, not until he actually buys the Blazers.

I worked 30 years for a company once that tried to guilt me into doing something that clashed with both my values and better judgment by saying how I owed them my loyalty, that they gave me a chance when I was starting out. My reply was this: I produced for you and you paid me for that. If I wasn't productive, smart business would be to let me go. I work for you, but I do not belong to you.

It's a trade-off, and there are hundreds of players in this league that wish they'd have been compensated for their efforts as well as has Damian Lillard.

The odds would suggest Dame knows a lot about the ins and outs of the league. That's certainly true. Does that make him an expert on the composition of a winning team? I haven't seen evidence of that. And I think essentially telling all the NBA and sports that he wants it done this way and putting the Blazers in a situation which puts the organization in a corner, which hurts its leverage, which limits the avenues to make the team better actually steams over the towline Dame laid with this organization over the last decade.

He's certainly entitled to his opinion and the team itself seems to value his insight. However, making a statement like this in public is anti the Damian we've come to know and impedes the organizations very efforts to make him a winner here.

Dame wants Portland to be a winner, but the message he's sent clearly is that he's above the organization. If the organization feels differently and finds a good trade for him because it better suits those goals than trying to win his way, no one including Damian Lillard should have a problem with it now.
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Who is the expert in this organization when it comes to the composition of a winning team? Whoever that is, that's who I want calling the shots.

What Dame is saying now isn't that far off from what Cronin said publically earlier the week. Both have stated that middling in two timelines is dangerous. Both have stated that they need to pick a path. Both have said their youth and lack of experience was part of the problem this year. So the narrative that Dame is saying only seems to be echoing what Cronin said earlier. When you're repeating what your boss says, it's not really going above the organzation in my opinion.

Now if people don't like what Cronin and Dame are saying, that's a fair opinion. We could go back to a time 5 years ago when everyone in the organization was pubically saying that a starting lineup with Harkless/Aminu was good enough to win at the highest level. If that
 
Tince said:
Who is the expert in this organization when it comes to the composition of a winning team? Whoever that is, that's who I want calling the shots.

What Dame is saying now isn't that far off from what Cronin said publically earlier the week. Both have stated that middling in two timelines is dangerous. Both have stated that they need to pick a path. Both have said their youth and lack of experience was part of the problem this year. So the narrative that Dame is saying only seems to be echoing what Cronin said earlier. When you're repeating what your boss says, it's not really going above the organzation in my opinion.

Now if people don't like what Cronin and Dame are saying, that's a fair opinion. We could go back to a time 5 years ago when everyone in the organization was pubically saying that a starting lineup with Harkless/Aminu was good enough to win at the highest level. If that
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Again, hate to be condescending, but it's a moot point about who is the expert on building a winning team because what Dame is doing isn't helping it at all.

I think the bigger narrative was that injuries were the problem this year.

And equivocating what Cronin said and Dame said and ignoring the important context that they aren't the same person and are in different roles is unbecoming. By your own admission, they didn't say the same thing and they certainly don't fill the same roles.
 
Mediocre Man said:


This would be a solid on Dame’s part if he asked out
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We are going to see a lot of these ideas from talking heads. Dame to Miami to play with Butler makes no sense to me. Miami was not good this year with Lowry. If they take away Bam, which is who we would demand, how would they be better? They got outrebounded by 25 in their last game against a very average rebounding team in Atlanta. I think Miami needs to tear it down and start over with free agents. They usually do well with that.
 
PCmor7 said:
Again, hate to be condescending, but it's a moot point about who is the expert on building a winning team because what Dame is doing isn't helping it at all.

I think the bigger narrative was that injuries were the problem this year.

And equivocating what Cronin said and Dame said and ignoring the important context that they aren't the same person and are in different roles is unbecoming. By your own admission, they didn't say the same thing and they certainly don't fill the same roles.
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I don't think you're being condescending. I appreciate your opinion.

I'm not sure what Dame/Cronin have said in the last week has helped or hurt anything. There is certainly no proof what they've said has increased interest or lowered what teams are willing to offer. There is no reason to think a team lowered their offer based on the comments. I believe Cronin came out earlier this week and stated that the franchise needs to pick a direction and that their youth hurt their chances of winning games this year. So when Dame came out, and said the same thing, I'm not sure what significant difference it made on what type of roster Cronin will be able to put together this summer.

You appear to be assuming the teams ability to maximize trades went down between the Cronin exit interview and Dame's recent interview. That seems like a major stretch and certainly can't be backed up with any evidence.
 
Joe better know what the hell he’s doing by draft day! Say the Blazers get the #2 pick in the draft we will most likely get the chance to draft Scoot Henderson. If we say we’re going to try to do this for Dame by giving him a winning team and it doesn’t work out. We passed up on Scoot and it may not look very good.
 
BigGameDamian said:
Joe better know what the hell he’s doing by draft day! Say the Blazers get the #2 pick in the draft we will most likely get the chance to draft Scoot Henderson. If we say we’re going to try to do this for Dame by giving him a winning team and it doesn’t work out. We passed up on Scoot and it may not look very good.
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That would give the Blazers a lot of options. Scoot's on a plane just below Wemby. I think there'd be a number of teams that would be willing to trade quite a bit for him. Conversely, it also opens the door for the Blazers to just draft him and trade Ant ... or trade Dame.
 
Or the Blazers could draft Miller or trade down a spot or two and pick up other aspects.

Getting the No. 2 pick won't be as good as No. 1, but it sure would make things interesting.
 
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