Dame gets no love from the refs

[BBert]

Whats funny is I bet fans from other teams think the exact same thing.

Well, they are dumb.

 

[Chris Craig]

what do you mean "could"?

That's sad

 

[Trackjack]

But he dribbled once before he took 4 more steps!


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Referee always been the worst of any levels of the game. Next time they what to strike let them and higher college officials.

 

[dviss1]

what do you mean "could"?

This is why I never want to be an NBA referee.

 

[BBert]

Lebron took 3 steps, one dribble, then four steps, then got the superstar "foul" call. SMH

 

[Haakzilla]

...refs are sponsored by Nike?!

 

[STOMP]

See 2000 WCF.

...and most every playoff series since. I've long since given up hopes of getting a fair shake from the officiating as the league is sports entertainment not sport. The home team gets down early, expect the visiting team's stars to get into foul trouble so fans can have their close finish. God forbid a ratings disaster market like Portland makes the playoffs. If they do, expect fantom fouls and unbelievable no-calls the other way to ensure the desired outcome. When this happens yet again the looks on the player's faces tells me they know the deal... you don't win here. Even following the embarrassment of the Donaghy scandal the league refused to allow the officials to become independent from the league's front office like every other major sports league. At the time they gave lip service to doing this but it was all swept under the rug once the negative attention faded.

I still watch because I love hoops. I enjoy the moment and revel in great plays, but don't take much stock in the results.

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

...and most every playoff series since. I've long since given up hopes of getting a fair shake from the officiating as the league is sports entertainment not sport. The home team gets down early, expect the visiting team's stars to get into foul trouble so fans can have their close finish. God forbid a ratings disaster market like Portland makes the playoffs. If they do, expect fantom fouls and unbelievable no-calls the other way to ensure the desired outcome. When this happens yet again the looks on the player's faces tells me they know the deal... you don't win here. Even following the embarrassment of the Donaghy scandal the league refused to allow the officials to become independent from the league's front office like every other major sports league. At the time they gave lip service to doing this but it was all swept under the rug once the negative attention faded.

I still watch because I love hoops. I enjoy the moment and revel in great plays, but don't take much stock in the results.

STOMP

It's sad because it's still probably my favorite sport, and the Blazers are our only major sports franchise other than the Timbers. I see bad calls in other sports, but I don't usually get the feeling like they were deliberate. They weren't done on the command of the higher ups. The NBA is the closest thing to wrestling.

 

[Natebishop3]

Last night was a perfect example of this bullshit.

Dame is so much better than Harden it's ridiculous.

Harden attempted 18 FT last night and made 15.

Dame went 4/4 from the line.

Harden's line last night was 33 points off 7-18 shooting (38%), 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, and 10 turnovers in 35.5 minutes.

If Dame was handed an extra 10 points off free throws, his line would have been: 31 points off 7-20 shooting, 10 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, and 4 turnovers.

Harden isn't a superstar. I don't even think he deserves to be an All-Star.

 

[riverman]

You could actually insert the word Blazers instead of Dame in the thread title...Dame is not getting superstar calls, allstar nods...he'll let his game do the talkin'

 

[Natebishop3]

Some more information.

Harden is first in the league with 467 points this season off free throws. That's 122 more points than the next guy on the list, DeMar DeRozan, with 345 points off free throws.

Harden has attempted 536 free throws. Again, he's first in the league, and the next guy on the list is DeMarcus Cousins with 417 attempts.

 

[Sinobas]

It's very noticable. No one goes inside and hits the ground more per call than Damian. I think he is indeed trying to draw fouls by falling down, and maybe he has a rep for doing that, but that doesn't seem to matter for guys that are real flagrant floppers.

Not sure why refs would dislike Damian, he's not harsh with the refs.

 

[Sinobas]

IF we get DeRozan next year, it'll be interesting to see if his FTA's plummet.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's very noticable. No one goes inside and hits the ground more per call than Damian. I think he is indeed trying to draw fouls by falling down, and maybe he has a rep for doing that, but that doesn't seem to matter for guys that are real flagrant floppers.

Not sure why refs would dislike Damian, he's not harsh with the refs.

I don't think it's the refs. They work for the NBA. I have always thought that the NBA hands down orders on who they want to protect. Guys like Shaq, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc. Harden is just one of the absolute worst about taking advantage of that favoritism.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Some more information.

Harden is first in the league with 467 points this season off free throws. That's 122 more points than the next guy on the list, DeMar DeRozan, with 345 points off free throws.

Harden has attempted 536 free throws. Again, he's first in the league, and the next guy on the list is DeMarcus Cousins with 417 attempts.

Whoa, that's a lot of time spent on his knees blowing the refs before games.

 

[blue32]

Dame doesn't really euro step or slither.... and often times runs straight into dudes, falls down and just yells. No drama added.

Harden slithers around.... and often times whips his head back and over exaggerates contact and falls down with added drama attached.

Its quite obvious why Dame doesn't get them. He's not trying to cheat the system.

Harden on the other hand is purely dramatic in the majority of his fouls, and well, the NBA refs eat that shit up like its a golden turd.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Last night was a perfect example of this bullshit.

Dame is so much better than Harden it's ridiculous.

Harden attempted 18 FT last night and made 15.

Dame went 4/4 from the line.

Harden's line last night was 33 points off 7-18 shooting (38%), 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, and 10 turnovers in 35.5 minutes.

If Dame was handed an extra 10 points off free throws, his line would have been: 31 points off 7-20 shooting, 10 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, and 4 turnovers.

Harden isn't a superstar. I don't even think he deserves to be an All-Star.

Actually, if Dame were handed an extra 10 free throws, his line would show him as 7-15, because those missed shots on which fouls were called wouldn't count as field goal attempts.

For all those (@Tunchi) criticizing Dame's FG%, how much higher would it be if he got the amount of foul calls he deserves? Or conversely, how much lower would Harden's be if he weren't getting so many BS calls?

 

[Natebishop3]

Actually, if Dame were handed an extra 10 free throws, his line would show him as 7-15, because those missed shots on which fouls were called wouldn't count as field goal attempts.

For all those (@Tunchi) criticizing Dame's FG%, how much higher would it be if he got the amount of foul calls he deserves? Or conversely, how much lower would Harden's be if he weren't getting so many BS calls?

Good point. I didn't even think about it like that.


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[BlazerCaravan]

Scottie Pippen's FTr (free throw rate) dropped nearly 5 percentage points (about 15%) between his year in Houston and his first year in Portland.

 

[Natebishop3]

Scottie Pippen's FTr (free throw rate) dropped nearly 5 percentage points (about 15%) between his year in Houston and his first year in Portland.

Shocking! Shocking I say!

 

[Dan Marang]

This is why I hate the NBA.

Dame is 28th in the league in FTA at 5.1 per game.

That's ridiculous considering he's 7th in the league in scoring behind (rank in FTA):

1. Steph Curry (#17)
2. James Harden (#1)
3. Paul George (Tied for #7)
4. Kevin Durant (Tied for #12)
5. LeBron James (#9)
6. Russell Westbrook (Tied for #4)

I find it strange that Curry and Lillard are ranked so low in FTA, but Lillard is the only player not even in the top 20 in FTA.

By comparison, Dame takes 36.7% of his shots within 10 feet.

1. Steph Curry 27.8% within 10 feet.
2. James Harden 35.1%
3. Paul George 22.8%
4. Kevin Durant 28.4%
5. LeBron James 56.1%
6. Russell Westbrook 41.7%

So despite Dame attempting the 3rd most shots within 10 feet of that list of scorers, he's 28th in FTA. What happened to rewarding aggressive players?

I mentioned this in the analysis on CJ McCollum but if you take a look here you can read how Steph has actively targeted that as a weak link in his game and worked to make it better.

There's a list of players (and articles) backing up the theory that it's a skill that is developed over time- but also something that some players have naturally. Not just the arm flailing, but the ability to anticipate player movement and act to get into that space before hand, setting up a defender to be where you want him and not where he wants to be. CJ on RipCityMornings Friday stated he REALLY needs to work on drawing contact, and flat out admitted that his game about avoiding contact b/c of his size growing up. Meanwhile, Harden was always a bull at the 2 and he developed a lot of different methods- 1 being left handed and having the ability to go right & left, changing speeds probably better than anyone, the Eurostep, and of course the arm flailing and acting. That last part is really only a part of it - and just serves to sell the original act that is really a refined craft. Let me state- I hate the way he does it- but it's effective.

Lillard gets caught anticipating contact when sometimes there isn't any, and THEN resorts to the arm flail. That almost never works (as we've seen) so he still needs to work at setting up his defender better, drawing the contact where and when he wants it so he's better prepared to generate the foul. It sounds mathematical and simple, but there really is an art to it, as much as I hate to admit it.

As far as free throw rate is concern though, Dame is right on average for a 20PPG scorer. Particularly one that chucks from the 3 point line as much as he does.

Steph .281
Dame .277

Doesn't get all much closer than that. Keep in mind that Curry is the better interior finisher by a large margin and has been in the league 2+ more years. I think it's fair to say that Lillard gets his share of FTs considering the reigning MVP and current NBA darling is drawing them at relatively the same rate.

 

[Natebishop3]

I mentioned this in the analysis on CJ McCollum but if you take a look here you can read how Steph has actively targeted that as a weak link in his game and worked to make it better.

There's a list of players (and articles) backing up the theory that it's a skill that is developed over time- but also something that some players have naturally. Not just the arm flailing, but the ability to anticipate player movement and act to get into that space before hand, setting up a defender to be where you want him and not where he wants to be. CJ on RipCityMornings Friday stated he REALLY needs to work on drawing contact, and flat out admitted that his game about avoiding contact b/c of his size growing up. Meanwhile, Harden was always a bull at the 2 and he developed a lot of different methods- 1 being left handed and having the ability to go right & left, changing speeds probably better than anyone, the Eurostep, and of course the arm flailing and acting. That last part is really only a part of it - and just serves to sell the original act that is really a refined craft. Let me state- I hate the way he does it- but it's effective.

Lillard gets caught anticipating contact when sometimes there isn't any, and THEN resorts to the arm flail. That almost never works (as we've seen) so he still needs to work at setting up his defender better, drawing the contact where and when he wants it so he's better prepared to generate the foul. It sounds mathematical and simple, but there really is an art to it, as much as I hate to admit it.

As far as free throw rate is concern though, Dame is right on average for a 20PPG scorer. Particularly one that chucks from the 3 point line as much as he does.

Steph .281
Dame .277

Doesn't get all much closer than that. Keep in mind that Curry is the better interior finisher by a large margin and has been in the league 2+ more years. I think it's fair to say that Lillard gets his share of FTs considering the reigning MVP and current NBA darling is drawing them at relatively the same rate.

How do you account for Dame taking significantly more shots than Steph within ten feet though? (at least at the time of that post, I haven't looked more recently.) More than Harden as well.

 

[Dan Marang]

Wade and Iverson penetrated exactly like Damien and they got so much more trips to the line, it's crazy.
Anyone remembers Wade in his 2006 championship campaign? anyone who got near him was tagged with a foul

C'mon now guys- I love me some Dame but he's NOWHERE near Wade/AI in terms of going to the rim, finishing, and/or drawing fouls. There's a reason both of those guys have medical files measured in inches, they made a living throwing themselves into the paint and onto the floor on a nightly basis. Personally, I don't want Dame to become that b/c that turns into games missed in a hurry.

Wade and Iverson were some of the best in NBA history at getting to and finishing at the rim their positions have ever seen, it's a little premature to put Dame on that level.

 

[Dan Marang]

How do you account for Dame taking significantly more shots than Steph within ten feet though? (at least at the time of that post, I haven't looked more recently.) More than Harden as well.

I'd have to break up the shots by type to verify... give me a few and I'll see if I present a decent answer.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Maybe Dame should send them a Valentine's Day gift.

 

[Dan Marang]

I'd have to break up the shots by type to verify... give me a few and I'll see if I present a decent answer.

after running the numbers it's really a small breakdown of shot type. Steph creates a bit more space on avg- with his defender 2.87 feet away and Dame at 2.7. Steph has 58% of his shots inside 8ft between 3-8 feet (meaning not inside the restricted area) and Dame is at 54%- they're at the rim percentage is near identical as well.

While nothing here is conclusive, I'd go back to my original point that they are drawing them at about the same rate inside. Where I think Steph is drawing more fouls... and this would be harder to quantify... is that Steph gets fouled on his jumper more often. He does have a nasty pump fake, something that Lillard hasn't resorted to (thank the pump fake God Dorrell Wright!) and/or incorporated into his game all that much.

This does bring up an interesting point though, I'll see if I can find fouls by location and see if there's any difference between Dame/Steph on WHERE they get fouled and that would probably provide a bigger indicator one way or the other.