Dame No Longer #1 Rookie!

[Shooter]

And yet he leads all rookies with assists. So what if it went down?! He's still better than every rookie in the game

Well, if you see one guy's play declining toward the end of the season and another guy's play improving toward the end of the season, that is worth noting. It may mean that the second guy will soon be passing the first guy, or it may not, but it's still significant. If the tables were turned, and Lillard were the one coming on strong, everybody on the board would be clamoring for him to win ROY.

 

[e_blazer]

What the hell has gotten into people on this board lately? Maybe it's the fact that the Blazers are losing, playoff hopes are dwindling, and there's not much of significance to discuss until the summer, but it seems like people are just ripping into each other out of sheer boredom. All I know is that the board is becoming less and less fun to read.

Lillard is going to win the ROY despite Aldridge's rankings simply because he's had a great year from start to finish while Davis has been slow getting out of the gates in part due to injuries. They're both going to be great players and, in the long run, who gives a rip about who comes in 1st or 2nd in the ROY race when a player's success is ultimately rated over the course of an NBA career?

 

[drexlersdad]

shooter has some valid points

lillard is scoring and dishing, but damn, that .410ish shooting percentage is ugly

 

[Natebishop3]

Dame hasn't missed a game?? Big whoop. They don't give you Rookie of the Year for playing every game; it's not an award for endurance, but for performance. Lillard is playing 10 more minutes a game because Portland has the worst bench in the league and they HAVE to keep him out there, or haven't you noticed?

And don't lecture me about personal attacks. You brought my politics into the discussion on another thread when it was uncalled for, so you better be able to take it as well as give it.

It has nothing to do with endurance and everything to do with sample size. Lillard is putting up vastly better numbers in more games and more minutes. Rookie of the year isnt about coming on strong at the end, its about a rookie campaign as a whole. Plus, Davis can't stay healthy.

Explain how telling you to stick to politics is like calling me dim?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Shooter]

Well if based on performance than Lillard wins it easy. He leads all rookies in points and assists. Seems that's a good indicator no?

Hey, I think Lillard deserves to win it and I hope he does. But I also see an enormous talent in Davis, and a guy who has a chance to be really dominant in this league. Unlike you and the other hysterical types on this board, I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to defend Blazer players at every opportunity.

 

[THE HCP]

shooter has some valid points

lillard is scoring and dishing, but damn, that .410ish shooting percentage is ugly

He could shoot 40% the rest of his career and I'd be happy as long as he's putting up 18/6/4!

 

[drexlersdad]

He could shoot 40% the rest of his career and I'd be happy as long as he's putting up 18/6/4!

itll get old...dames a better 3 shooter, but thats basically monta elllis

i have no doubt he will pick it up next year, .450 or so hopefully

 

[Shooter]

It has nothing to do with endurance and everything to do with sample size. Lillard is putting up vastly better numbers in more games and more minutes.

And you don't think Lillard's better numbers have something to do with his higher minutes??? The guy is on the court practically the whole game, so he has a lot more opportunities to score than Davis does.

Rookie of the year isnt about coming on strong at the end, its about a rookie campaign as a whole.

Yes, and the season isn't over yet.

Explain how telling you to stick to politics is like calling me dim?

Geez, you're proving my point. By telling me to stick to politics, you're suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Blazers, and that's an attack on my intelligence. Let me know if you need anything else this obvious explained to you.

 

[magnifier661]

Hey, I think Lillard deserves to win it and I hope he does. But I also see an enormous talent in Davis, and a guy who has a chance to be really dominant in this league. Unlike you and the other hysterical types on this board, I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to defend Blazer players at every opportunity.

Actually I think Davis will be a stud; but it has nothing to do with him deserving the Roy. Lillard wins no matter what. Maybe Davis becomes the better player years down the road.

 

[Jayps15]

Facts or common sense? You mean like the fact that Lillard's assist average is down from the start of the season, or that his shooting percentage has tailed off, or that he seems to have leveled off in some ways while Davis seems to be getting better and better? Are those the kind of facts that are getting in my way?

For a guy who prides himself on being an astute observer of the game, you sure seem pretty dim sometimes.

Well, if you see one guy's play declining toward the end of the season and another guy's play improving toward the end of the season, that is worth noting. It may mean that the second guy will soon be passing the first guy, or it may not, but it's still significant. If the tables were turned, and Lillard were the one coming on strong, everybody on the board would be clamoring for him to win ROY.

The Fuck? That isn't a fact, that's fucking make believe. Month by month Davis is getting worse on the season!

FG FT MIN PPG REB AST
Nov. .500 | .773 | 28.1 | 15.0 | 8.6 | 1.0
Dec. .488 | .811 | 33.9 | 14.0 | 8.6 | 0.6
Jan. .591 |.550 | 24.8 | 11.1 | 6.6 | 0.9
Feb. .443 | .788 | 25.5 | 11.2 | 7.0 | 1.3

He doesn't 'seem to be getting better and better', he's playing less and his averages are all continuing to go down. Oh yea, and he's fucking hurt again and missed a game before this article was even posted.

Lillard, on the other hand, struggled from the 3pt arc but otherwise bounced back from his worst scoring month in January to up his scoring to 19.8ppg in the month of February. His 'tailed off' shooting percentage in Feb? 41.5%. His overall FG% on the season before Feb? 41.9%. So he 'tailed off' less than half a fucking percent. Assists? 6.2 for Feb, down a whopping .3 from his 6.5 average through Jan.

 

[TowelBoy]

Honestly, we probably shouldn't be so defensive about this. Everyone, including Blazer fans, knew/knows Davis was/is the prize of this draft, a dominant and explosive defensive PF/C and the likeliest "high-end" franchise player. We all would have traded Lillard for Davis after, say summer league (although I admit I wouldn't at this point, even if that's a bit homerish).

This was Davis's ROY race to lose. If he had been healthy all season and put up a 21 PER with dominant defensive stats, he could have easily beaten Lillard in a narrow ROY vote even with lower PPG, even with fewer minutes, and even with fewer wins. It's a nice boon for Blazer hype that Davis missed some time, Lillard shone, and Lillard is now the runaway winner of the award.

But that may not dramatically change the picture in the long run, and Thorpe isn't necessarily insane for putting Davis back on top now that he's been healthy long enough to show that he is who we thought he was.

 

[illmatic99]

Dame's biggest problem right now is his FG%. It's plummeting to Felton/Jennings levels. Until he finishes better around the rim and improves his shot selection, I won't really have gripes about this.

The solace here is that even guys like KD and Bron shot horribly their rookie years, and improved drastically. The hope is that Dame can do the same.

 

[illmatic99]

He could shoot 40% the rest of his career and I'd be happy as long as he's putting up 18/6/4!

Really? I wouldn't. Sure he'll bring the intangibles, but I would be pretty disappointed if that's all he turned out to be.

 

[Natebishop3]

And you don't think Lillard's better numbers have something to do with his higher minutes??? The guy is on the court practically the whole game, so he has a lot more opportunities to score than Davis does.

His higher minutes also has something to do with his low shooting percentage. The guy is exhausted. He's played so much more than Davis, and is expected to carry so much more of the offensive work load.

Yes, and the season isn't over yet.

For Davis to make a push, yes it is. The guy can't stay healthy, and his numbers are so much lower than Dame's, I don't think he's got a shot.

Geez, you're proving my point. By telling me to stick to politics, you're suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Blazers, and that's an attack on my intelligence. Let me know if you need anything else this obvious explained to you.

Ah, so an insinuation that you don't know what you're talking about, is the same thing as coming right out and telling me I'm stupid. Gotcha. And no, you don't know what you're talking about if you can't see that Maynor is playing the toughest position and you're expecting him to set the world on fire after only two games, or that Dame's drop off might have something to do with playing 12 more games than Davis. It's commonly referred to as "the rookie wall" and Davis probably hasn't hit it because he's only played a total of 1246 minutes this season, while Dame has played 2194 minutes. That's almost twice as many minutes. Do the math.

 

[blue9]

Really? So when Fez says Lillard was being scorched by those guards, using their stats; ignoring just how Lillard faced them; it is definitely strawman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Actually, mags, a straw man argument is what YOU typically do. That's what I find so hilarious - you constantly cry "straw man" (or "delusional"!), but yet that's the basis of every nearly all of your arguments. You are constantly misrepresenting what OTHERS are saying, twisting words, inserting different players/topics, and just generally spinning the argument off topic rather than addressing the matter at hand. Are you a politician? Because straw man arguments are the primary tool of politicians.
If someone makes an argument with incomplete information (as you suggest Fez did), that's NOT a straw man argument. It's a position, but perhaps not a very strong position.

 

[Boise Blazer]

You know what my favorite part about this thread is? One that we have a PG the is even being discussed for ROY and 2) that his amazing rookie year "appears" it to some to have dropped off enough to bump him to #2 for the Week . This makes me very very happy for the future.

 

[Shooter]

His higher minutes also has something to do with his low shooting percentage. The guy is exhausted. He's played so much more than Davis, and is expected to carry so much more of the offensive work load.

Well, that's an interesting theory, but only a theory. Lillard actually looks pretty fresh to me most of the time. The kid is 22 years old and he's probably thrilled to be getting this much playing time. I don't see exhaustion in his case.

Ah, so an insinuation that you don't know what you're talking about, is the same thing as coming right out and telling me I'm stupid.

Spare me your sad story, bro. You were insulting my intelligence and you know it. I don't get personal in debates unless the other guy does it first, and you did it. So shut up and take your own medicine.

And no, you don't know what you're talking about if you can't see that Maynor is playing the toughest position and you're expecting him to set the world on fire after only two games. . .

I never said Maynor should be setting the world on fire, but I did expect him to perform better than he has. He's a veteran and he shouldn't have to "adjust" that much. I've seen veteran players step right in and contribute from game one. Look at Rudy Gay. He was off and running the first game with his new team. I'm actually hoping that Maynor works out, and that he becomes a very good backup point guard for us. I'll be thrilled if that happens, starting tonight. However, what I have seen from his first two games has not been encouraging.

 

[Natebishop3]

Well, that's an interesting theory, but only a theory. Lillard actually looks pretty fresh to me most of the time. The kid is 22 years old and he's probably thrilled to be getting this much playing time. I don't see exhaustion in his case.

I see it on his face all the time. He's tired. So you're going to ignore the fact that Davis has played half the minutes this season as Lillard? Okay....

Spare me your sad story, bro. You were insulting my intelligence and you know it. I don't get personal in debates unless the other guy does it first, and you did it. So shut up and take your own medicine.

I didn't question your intelligence, I questioned your knowledge about the game. Those are not the same thing. Stephen Hawking is a genius, is he any less so because he might not know as much about basketball as the people on this board? You were the one who jumped to insulting my intelligence... and that weird crack about my dog. Still not sure exactly what that was about.

I never said Maynor should be setting the world on fire, but I did expect him to perform better than he has. He's a veteran and he shouldn't have to "adjust" that much. I've seen veteran players step right in and contribute from game one. Look at Rudy Gay. He was off and running the first game with his new team. I'm actually hoping that Maynor works out, and that he becomes a very good backup point guard for us. I'll be thrilled if that happens, starting tonight. However, what I have seen from his first two games has not been encouraging.

Rudy Gay has one job - score. Of course he's going to be off and running on a new team. All he has to worry about is taking shots. Maynor is not a scorer, he's a floor general, so it's going to take him longer to learn his teammates, learn the offense, and build chemistry. I find it funny that you would compare him to the absolute easiest position for someone to step into on a new team.

 

[Blaze01]

The homerism on this board is really getting ridiculous...Anyone that says anything contrarian to the group mind think around here is attacked, often personally....

Both Fez|Shooter are making good points, Lillard has had a good year but he is not without flaws...

 

[Shooter]

I didn't question your intelligence, I questioned your knowledge about the game. Those are not the same thing.

You're a great one for splitting hairs, aren't you? You not only questioned my intelligence, you were dismissing my politics as well. You were having a good time at my expense, but now that the tables have been turned you are all upset, which I find humorous.

Rudy Gay has one job - score.

So you don't think his new team wants him to play defense? Wow. You are indeed an astute observer of the game. May I kindly suggest that YOU stick with politics?

 

[Spud147]

You know what my favorite part about this thread is? One that we have a PG the is even being discussed for ROY and 2) that his amazing rookie year "appears" it to some to have dropped off enough to bump him to #2 for the Week . This makes me very very happy for the future.

I know, right?!?

I feel like I'm watching a different player sometimes than the one we're talking about. I just look at how teams are completely focusing their defense on him. That Boston game was amazing to me, they had two and three players on him most of the time. I can't remember Brandon or even Clyde getting that their rookie years. They are making him work for everything he's been getting and I don't see that he's really hit a major rookie wall. I haven't seen a Portland rookie do that before either. Other teams find him so dangerous they're willing to leave other players wide open. He's a gym rat and a student of the game. He's smart and he's going to figure out what other teams are going to try to do to him and he'll adjust his game.

 

[Shooter]

The homerism on this board is really getting ridiculous...Anyone that says anything contrarian to the group mind think around here is attacked, often personally....

You got it. It's been that way for a long time.

 

[Natebishop3]

You're a great one for splitting hairs, aren't you? You not only questioned my intelligence, you were dismissing my politics as well. You were having a good time at my expense, but now that the tables have been turned you are all upset, which I find humorous.


So you don't think his new team wants him to play defense? Wow. You are indeed an astute observer of the game. May I kindly suggest that YOU stick with politics?

So wait, you come into this thread and start attacking me, and I'm the bad guy? Okay shooter. Whatever you say. And if you think telling you to "stick to politics" is

A) questioning your intelligence

or

B) dismissing your politics

Then maybe you are dim. Maybe I gave you too much credit.

Oh, and Rudy Gay and the word "defense" have never gone together.

 

[magnifier661]

The homerism on this board is really getting ridiculous...Anyone that says anything contrarian to the group mind think around here is attacked, often personally....

Both Fez|Shooter are making good points, Lillard has had a good year but he is not without flaws...

Last time I checked, this is a fan-atical forum for the Portland Trailblazers. You think we all need to be espn analysists or something?

 

[Natebishop3]

The homerism on this board is really getting ridiculous...Anyone that says anything contrarian to the group mind think around here is attacked, often personally....

Both Fez|Shooter are making good points, Lillard has had a good year but he is not without flaws...

I think it's funny that you surface for a thread like this.

Anyone else find it interesting that the only three people that seem to have "realistic" opinions on Lillard are:

Blaze01 - one of the biggest meltdowns in board history over the drafting of Lillard
Fez - ultimate Waiters fanboi
Shooter - thinks Maynor should be playing at an all-star level after only two games.

 

[THE HCP]

Who did this Blaze person want us to draft instead?

 

[magnifier661]

Who did this Blaze person want us to draft instead?

Drummond?

 

[illmatic99]

http://sportstwo.com/threads/216440-Harrison-FUCKING-Barnes

More:

If Olshey keeps to his word and goes BPA over reaching for need...

6) Rivers

11) Lamb

This assumes that some version of Beal/MKG/Robinson/Barnes goes #2-5...If one of those guys is there at #6 (or POR trades up), all bets are off...

POR takes Rivers at #6 - highest BPA player on the board (maybe Waiters here, but I think they like Rivers more)

Waiters goes #7 to GS (West loves the guy), Lillard goes #8 to TOR, Drummond goes #9 to DET, New Orleans with no Lillard\Waiters\Rivers left on the board, I think will go big ...that being Zeller

So at #11, POR has a probable short list of Leonard who has major personality red flags IMO, P.Jones (does he have a meniscus injury or not?), Lamb, Ross, Henson or Harkless to choose from...I think it would be one of those guys....

Henson could be a possibility but he is not the best talent of the group, but he is a need (same for Leonard)......If Jones' knee is just a draft day smokescreen or checks out with POR, I could see them going with him at #11, but I think they go with BPA and out of the remainder of guys (Lamb\Ross\Harkless) that is Lamb...darkhorse would be Ross who has looked real good...

lol. Rivers is possibly the worst rookie this year who's still getting minutes.

 

[THE HCP]

HAHA! DAMN!

 

[magnifier661]

Wow I can't believe how many of us thought Lillard was a mistake; including myself. I will say that I was all swinging from the jock of Drummond. I still am! I wish we had #6 and #8 picks.