Dame’s greatness

[BassPlaya]

The "either/or" is used by fans regarding sports.....a great deal. The other analogy is that X isn't being done.....therefor Y is being accomplished/wasted/ignored....yada, yada, yada.

Great players, coaches, moves, etc.....exist on/by nearly every franchise on their way to a title. So are mistakes/bad players/coaching etc. Rarely is everything aligned the way a fan might
want, but rather some great things covering over the bad things to get to the top. It's talent, coaching, hard work, luck, and low$ players suddenly exploding at the right time. Here in Sensitivity U.S.A,
it is hard to get the top players to come. We do not have tax advantages, night life advantages, population base/TV viewership advantages....etc.

Right now, we are witnessing the greatest Blazer of all time, playing at the top of his game. But there is more to it. DL is going to die on the hill of "I am a Blazer....period. I want a championship here! "
I see suggestions of him as a "trade value". I shudder. There is no compensation in my world that replaces DL. Championships are a rare thing. Players like DL are just as rare. To put one over the other,
as far as value, is ignorant in my world. I'll take the one in my hand...rather than the one in the bush.

This current team is a group of really good human beings, and that is a treat to root for as a fan. It is so rare. I am going to enjoy this group and see where it goes, regardless of the preconceived ending.

Thanks Dame. I respect you perhaps more than any other sport player ever. You set the highest standard for what a player should be and act like.

 

[julius]

View attachment 53267

Washed lol

Is that implying he's the 3rd best player in the league, or am I totally reading that wrong?

 

[bigbailes]

The "either/or" is used by fans regarding sports.....a great deal. The other analogy is that X isn't being done.....therefor Y is being accomplished/wasted/ignored....yada, yada, yada.

Great players, coaches, moves, etc.....exist on/by nearly every franchise on their way to a title. So are mistakes/bad players/coaching etc. Rarely is everything aligned the way a fan might
want, but rather some great things covering over the bad things to get to the top. It's talent, coaching, hard work, luck, and low$ players suddenly exploding at the right time. Here in Sensitivity U.S.A,
it is hard to get the top players to come. We do not have tax advantages, night life advantages, population base/TV viewership advantages....etc.

Right now, we are witnessing the greatest Blazer of all time, playing at the top of his game. But there is more to it. DL is going to die on the hill of "I am a Blazer....period. I want a championship here! "
I see suggestions of him as a "trade value". I shudder. There is no compensation in my world that replaces DL. Championships are a rare thing. Players like DL are just as rare. To put one over the other,
as far as value, is ignorant in my world. I'll take the one in my hand...rather than the one in the bush.

This current team is a group of really good human beings, and that is a treat to root for as a fan. It is so rare. I am going to enjoy this group and see where it goes, regardless of the preconceived ending.

Thanks Dame. I respect you perhaps more than any other sport player ever. You set the highest standard for what a player should be and act like.

If he really was "win a championship at all costs" though, he wouldn't have taken the super max extension. I have no problem with him getting paid, and no one should do the job for free, BUT this 'willing to do whatever it takes' talk is lip service because one of the best ways for him to help bring more talent is to do the exact opposite of what he did, that's taking the most money he could.

 

[TBpup]

If he really was "win a championship at all costs" though, he wouldn't have taken the super max extension. I have no problem with him getting paid, and no one should do the job for free, BUT this 'willing to do whatever it takes' talk is lip service because one of the best ways for him to help bring more talent is to do the exact opposite of what he did, that's taking the most money he could.

As much as I can't stand Tom Brady, he has done exactly that to make sure there was more money available to spend on good players to put around him. Then when he won championships, he made a ton of money in endorsements.

 

[blazerkor]

This franchise is at a fork in the road with three paths,
1. Trade Dame- This one will be the most painful in the short term. I get it, he's arguably (though it's less and less of an argument every game) the best player this franchise has ever seen. If he has a couple more years left in him, than the team should get a great haul back for him and you reset around Sharpe/Ant.
2. Trade Anyone Else- Ideally in this scenario you hold on to Grant, as he could be a good #3 but anyone else is available as the franchise makes one last push to win a title around it's 'arguably' best player ever.
3. Make Fringe Moves- Keep doing what they've been doing for the most part, banging their heads against the wall and frustrating fans wasting Dames career

My %'s of what will happen ... #3 60% chance, #2 30% chance, #1 10% chance

I think they have to go with #2. This roster is less than the sum of it's parts and if you're being real with Dame he needs a second all star along with Jerami. So you have to be willing to guarantee Chicago the 2023 pick and use all three of the FRPs that would free up to get that second star who fits in Chauncey's system and complements Dame along with moving anyone who doesn't for players who do.

 

[HailBlazers]

Is that implying he's the 3rd best player in the league, or am I totally reading that wrong?

Certainly an All-Star Starter..

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Washed Great Dane!

 

[PCmor7]

I thought he was hurt again when he had a few bad shooting games a couple of weeks ago.

Every since then, he's been phenomenal. Right up with the best I've seen him play (still a few shaky decisions, but as unstoppable as there is much of the time).

Obvious Dame reads this board and I lit a fire under him. No, no, your thanks are unnecessary ... I mean, I'll take them but I'd prefer Zelle.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

This franchise is at a fork in the road with three paths,
1. Trade Dame- This one will be the most painful in the short term. I get it, he's arguably (though it's less and less of an argument every game) the best player this franchise has ever seen. If he has a couple more years left in him, than the team should get a great haul back for him and you reset around Sharpe/Ant.
2. Trade Anyone Else- Ideally in this scenario you hold on to Grant, as he could be a good #3 but anyone else is available as the franchise makes one last push to win a title around it's 'arguably' best player ever.
3. Make Fringe Moves- Keep doing what they've been doing for the most part, banging their heads against the wall and frustrating fans wasting Dames career

My %'s of what will happen ... #3 60% chance, #2 30% chance, #1 10% chance

I like 2 bigbailes! Wait.......that didn't sound right. I like choice #2.

Can't, under any way of thinking, justify trading Dame whose loyalty and desire to stay in Portland should serve as a great example to future "stars".
I think we all know about choice #3 and have had enough of that shit.

 

[e_blazer]

I think they have to go with #2. This roster is less than the sum of it's parts and if you're being real with Dame he needs a second all star along with Jerami. So you have to be willing to guarantee Chicago the 2023 pick and use all three of the FRPs that would free up to get that second star who fits in Chauncey's system and complements Dame along with moving anyone who doesn't for players who do.

I agree that’s the most likely plan, but I doubt that it happens before next summer. They are too constrained by the hard cap, the need to avoid the luxury tax this season in order to put the repeater penalty start date off one more season, and the unavailability of including a first round pick in a deal without removing the protection on this year’s pick. How bad would it suck on that last one to remove the protection, fail to make the playoffs, have the lottery balls come up magical and see the Bulls grab Wembanyama? Shades of giving them Jordan all over again.

I think they use Hart at the deadline to balance the roster a bit and avoid losing him for nothing. Save the big moves for summer.

 

[wizenheimer]

If he really was "win a championship at all costs" though, he wouldn't have taken the super max extension. I have no problem with him getting paid, and no one should do the job for free, BUT this 'willing to do whatever it takes' talk is lip service because one of the best ways for him to help bring more talent is to do the exact opposite of what he did, that's taking the most money he could.

that's just ridiculous

how the hell does a salary he'll have 3 years from now impact the team Portland could assemble today, tomorrow, next summer or at any time in the 3 years before that salary kicks in? And just how is it you're able to gauge a salary in 2026 without knowing what the 2026 salary cap will be?

You can't gauge it...you just scrounging for ways to criticize Dame in one form or another. Dame is making 34.3% of the salary cap this season; the same as Giannis, Kawhi, and PG13. And less than Westbrook, Bradley Beal, & Durant

and just how the fuck does him making a max keep Portland from signing a top-15 player when they have never even signed a top-75 free agent in the CBA era? Just who is it that Dame's max salary will prevent Portland from landing in a trade? Over the last 5 seasons, just who is it that Dame's salary kept Portland from acquiring? They had opportunities to add PG13 or Jimmy Butler, but CJ was held untouchable. They've had opportunities to draft all-star level talent, but simply missed in the draft picks, or even worse have wasted 7 first round draft picks on Afflalo-Zach-Swanigan-RoCo-Nance. Dame's salary had nothing to do with any of that

Dame's next extension kicks in the season after all the new media contracts will be signed. It easily could be that Dame will be making less than a max salary at that time. I've seen suggestions it will be at least a 175M cap. That would put Dame's salary at 33% of the cap instead of 34%. We simply don't know what the math will be. I don't, you don't....but somehow you think you can forecast the future so well you can say that Dame's salary will be cock-blocking the Blazer front office. There is just no logic behind what you're saying

not only that, Dame has already taken one for the team. When he signed his rookie extension, he was entitled to 30% of the cap instead of 25%. He compromised and took 27.5% so Olshey had some wiggle room. And Olshey didn't do jack-shit except wiggle all over on guys like Chandler Parsons and Evan Turner and Crabbe and Ezeli. Dame learned his lesson

 

[KingSpeed]

What Joe has to take into account is how it affects the franchise in terms of winning, if that is indeed the goal of the organization. For as tremendous as Dame has been offensively, it has not translated into elevating the team in terms of being a contender. There are a multitude of reasons for why or why not that has happened, but all those points haven't changed the direction of the franchise to where you would like a team to go. As of now, they have been out of the 1st round of the Playoffs once in the last 7 seasons. The points aren't translating into meaningful wins.

Does trying to add to Dame and sacrificing the future cause more of a positive trend, or does moving Dame for what would likely be the most they could get for any player on the roster, do more to help the team reboot, rebalance and possibly be better going forward? Losing Dame would be a HUGE blow, but it's not like the TEAM has been anywhere near the status of not breaking it up to try something else to see if it is better. It has been the definition of mediocrity for years.

It will take some hard decisions either way.

Twice. Blazers made it out of the first round in 2016.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I thought he was hurt again when he had a few bad shooting games a couple of weeks ago.

Every since then, he's been phenomenal. Right up with the best I've seen him play (still a few shaky decisions, but as unstoppable as there is much of the time).

Obvious Dame reads this board and I lit a fire under him. No, no, your thanks are unnecessary ... I mean, I'll take them but I'd prefer Zelle.

Consider yourself thanked.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

As much as I can't stand Tom Brady, he has done exactly that to make sure there was more money available to spend on good players to put around him. Then when he won championships, he made a tone of money in endorsements.

To be fair Brady’s wife made twice as much as him so money wasn’t a big concern. That said Brady cared more about winning and still gave up money

 

[TBpup]

Twice. Blazers made it out of the first round in 2016.

In the last 7 seasons. That was the 8th season ago. I believe someone said, first read, then post.

 

[42N8Bounce]

I figure this is a good place to put some of these graphs and charts that give a good visual of Dame's performance -

I'd say Dame is past his 'peak', but it's looking like a gradual arc down. He's got many amazing years ahead.



Greatest Blazer ever? He's got a good argument. That illusive championship, or finals appearance would probably close the discussion.

















The Blazers jersey should be the only jersey Dame ever wears.

 

[Shaboid]

I figure this is a good place to put some of these graphs and charts that give a good visual of Dame's performance -

I'd say Dame is past his 'peak', but it's looking like a gradual arc down. He's got many amazing years ahead.

View attachment 53270

Greatest Blazer ever? He's got a good argument. That illusive championship, or finals appearance would probably close the discussion.

View attachment 53279

View attachment 53272

View attachment 53286

View attachment 53274

View attachment 53275

View attachment 53285

View attachment 53277

View attachment 53278

The Blazers jersey should be the only jersey Dame ever wears.

View attachment 53282

I was looking at the career points list and thinking about where Dame would end up at the end of the season. I think he could catch Jamal Crawford if he remains hot and really torches people after the AS break.

 

[BassPlaya]

I drew in my own line.

 

[42N8Bounce]

I drew in my own line.

View attachment 53287

Excel has a feature that draws a trend line. I tried to be non-biased and use that. I like your trend line better.

 

[HansenYang]

I was looking at the career points list and thinking about where Dame would end up at the end of the season. I think he could catch Jamal Crawford if he remains hot and really torches people after the AS break.

Yah - He should be ~19,500 points by the end of the season... So somewhere between #62 and #57 on that list.

 

[bigbailes]

that's just ridiculous

how the hell does a salary he'll have 3 years from now impact the team Portland could assemble today, tomorrow, next summer or at any time in the 3 years before that salary kicks in? And just how is it you're able to gauge a salary in 2026 without knowing what the 2026 salary cap will be?

You can't gauge it...you just scrounging for ways to criticize Dame in one form or another. Dame is making 34.3% of the salary cap this season; the same as Giannis, Kawhi, and PG13. And less than Westbrook, Bradley Beal, & Durant

and just how the fuck does him making a max keep Portland from signing a top-15 player when they have never even signed a top-75 free agent in the CBA era? Just who is it that Dame's max salary will prevent Portland from landing in a trade? Over the last 5 seasons, just who is it that Dame's salary kept Portland from acquiring? They had opportunities to add PG13 or Jimmy Butler, but CJ was held untouchable. They've had opportunities to draft all-star level talent, but simply missed in the draft picks, or even worse have wasted 7 first round draft picks on Afflalo-Zach-Swanigan-RoCo-Nance. Dame's salary had nothing to do with any of that

Dame's next extension kicks in the season after all the new media contracts will be signed. It easily could be that Dame will be making less than a max salary at that time. I've seen suggestions it will be at least a 175M cap. That would put Dame's salary at 33% of the cap instead of 34%. We simply don't know what the math will be. I don't, you don't....but somehow you think you can forecast the future so well you can say that Dame's salary will be cock-blocking the Blazer front office. There is just no logic behind what you're saying

not only that, Dame has already taken one for the team. When he signed his rookie extension, he was entitled to 30% of the cap instead of 25%. He compromised and took 27.5% so Olshey had some wiggle room. And Olshey didn't do jack-shit except wiggle all over on guys like Chandler Parsons and Evan Turner and Crabbe and Ezeli. Dame learned his lesson

hahaha ... this whole post is comical! I'm not scrounging for reasons to criticize him, I'm saying things that I've said multiple times before. I do appreciate how him 'taking one for the team' is him taking 2.75% less or that with the new cap it would be 1% less ... really doing all he can to help the franchise win.

As for the 3 years down the line, you realize that these deals aren't done in a vaccum for just this season right? They have to make long term plans and fit salaries into the cap years down the line. Yea they are never getting a free agent all star to come to PDX but trades are where this team has to make their moves and you do that by having more cap room and taking on salaries other teams don't want.

I don't blame him for one minute taking all he can, in one respect he's doing the unselfish move as he is setting up generations upon generations of his family to enjoy his wealth. You could argue that by giving back that money he's being selfish in pursuit of winning a championship for himself, OR you can flip the whole thing around. Life is all about perspective and where you stand but when he says he's doing all he can for a title, sorry if we all know that's not right.

 

[THE HCP]

I figure this is a good place to put some of these graphs and charts that give a good visual of Dame's performance -

I'd say Dame is past his 'peak', but it's looking like a gradual arc down. He's got many amazing years ahead.

View attachment 53270

Greatest Blazer ever? He's got a good argument. That illusive championship, or finals appearance would probably close the discussion.

View attachment 53279

View attachment 53272

View attachment 53286

View attachment 53274

View attachment 53275

View attachment 53285

View attachment 53277

View attachment 53278

The Blazers jersey should be the only jersey Dame ever wears.

View attachment 53282

Where do we think Dame will finish the season on the all time scoring list?

 

[THE HCP]

Nevermind

 

[wizenheimer]

hahaha ... this whole post is comical! I'm not scrounging for reasons to criticize him, I'm saying things that I've said multiple times before. I do appreciate how him 'taking one for the team' is him taking 2.75% less or that with the new cap it would be 1% less ... really doing all he can to help the franchise win.

As for the 3 years down the line, you realize that these deals aren't done in a vaccum for just this season right? They have to make long term plans and fit salaries into the cap years down the line. Yea they are never getting a free agent all star to come to PDX but trades are where this team has to make their moves and you do that by having more cap room and taking on salaries other teams don't want.

I don't blame him for one minute taking all he can, in one respect he's doing the unselfish move as he is setting up generations upon generations of his family to enjoy his wealth. You could argue that by giving back that money he's being selfish in pursuit of winning a championship for himself, OR you can flip the whole thing around. Life is all about perspective and where you stand but when he says he's doing all he can for a title, sorry if we all know that's not right.

ok...let's get at it another way since you explicitly said "he wouldn't have taken the super max extension" if he really wanted a championship

do you even know what the difference between a max extension and a super-max extension will be in 2025-26? I sure don't. The cap went up this season more than 11M from last season. Early projections of next season set the cap at 133-134M. The way-early projections of the 2025-26 cap are ranging in the 170-175M range after the new media deals (estimate is the broadcast rights alone will go up from the 24B deal in 2016 to 75B in 2025. And there will be an additional gold mine in streaming rights, including international rights). This assumes no smoothing which the player's union is strongly opposed to

if the cap is 170M, a max salary of 35% of the cap would be 61.3M. Dame will be getting 58.5M, so his "supermax" will actually be less than a max. If the cap is only 160M, his supermax would exceed the max by 2M. Yeah, that 2M should bring in another all-star, seeing as how it would be less than a vet minimum
deal

exactly how much less should Dame have taken, and which player, or at least what level of player would Dame's sacrifice have allowed Portland to acquire....and how exactly

maybe it's easier to apply your theory to last summer. Dame's salary is 42.5M. Portland had no chance at cap-space last summer. So they would have still been left with only the MLE for free agents. Dame making 10%, which would be 4.25M wouldn't have allowed the Blazers to do a damn thing. Nada...Zilch. But it would have been about a 17-18M sacrifice for Dame. As pointless as it would have been, would that have made you say "look at that, Dame really wants a championship"

would an extension of 50M/year satisfy your objection? That would be Dame sacrificing 20M in 2 years.

I did notice that you failed to explain how giving Dame less money would open up the option for building a contender.

 

[42N8Bounce]

Where do we think Dame will finish the season on the all time scoring list?

30.1 ppg x 34 games = 1,023 points.
18,594 (current points) + 1,023 = 19,617
Budget a few games missed due to minor injuries.
Take off a few points since I think his average will come down a bit (no one can maintain this torrid pace!).

I think Dame will end up somewhere around 19,500 points at the end of the season. That would put him in the 57-Walter Davis / 58-Cliff Robinson range. Two ex-Blazers, both from the same 1990-91 team. Good company.

 

[Strenuus]

Blazers win: BLAME DAME FOR NOT GETTING US A PICK.

Blazers lose: DAME TOOK TOO MUCH MONEY AND WE CANT GET HIM HELP. BLAME DAME FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO GET US HELP.

just in case people blaming dame want to see the facts against their illogical takes.

 

[42N8Bounce]

Where do we think Dame will finish the season on the all time scoring list?

How about you? Where do you think Lillard will finish the season?

And don't tell me "20,000 points, edging out John Stockton for #55." You're always way too optimistic.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

In the last 7 seasons. That was the 8th season ago. I believe someone said, first read, then post.

The LAST 7 seasons:

1. 2021-22
2. 2020-21
3. 2019-20
4. 2018-19
5. 2017-18
6. 2016-17
7. 2015-16<=====Blazers out of first round

Learn math, then post

 

[TBpup]

The LAST 7 seasons:

1. 2021-22
2. 2020-21
3. 2019-20
4. 2018-19
5. 2017-18
6. 2016-17
7. 2015-16<=====Blazers out of first round

Learn math, then post

That works if we are in the 21-22 season.

 

[THE HCP]

The LAST 7 seasons:

1. 2021-22
2. 2020-21
3. 2019-20
4. 2018-19
5. 2017-18
6. 2016-17
7. 2015-16<=====Blazers out of first round

Learn math, then post

SIGH