Dame’s greatness

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wizenheimer said:
ok...let's get at it another way since you explicitly said "he wouldn't have taken the super max extension" if he really wanted a championship

do you even know what the difference between a max extension and a super-max extension will be in 2025-26? I sure don't. The cap went up this season more than 11M from last season. Early projections of next season set the cap at 133-134M. The way-early projections of the 2025-26 cap are ranging in the 170-175M range after the new media deals (estimate is the broadcast rights alone will go up from the 24B deal in 2016 to 75B in 2025. And there will be an additional gold mine in streaming rights, including international rights). This assumes no smoothing which the player's union is strongly opposed to

if the cap is 170M, a max salary of 35% of the cap would be 61.3M. Dame will be getting 58.5M, so his "supermax" will actually be less than a max. If the cap is only 160M, his supermax would exceed the max by 2M. Yeah, that 2M should bring in another all-star, seeing as how it would be less than a vet minimum
deal

exactly how much less should Dame have taken, and which player, or at least what level of player would Dame's sacrifice have allowed Portland to acquire....and how exactly

maybe it's easier to apply your theory to last summer. Dame's salary is 42.5M. Portland had no chance at cap-space last summer. So they would have still been left with only the MLE for free agents. Dame making 10%, which would be 4.25M wouldn't have allowed the Blazers to do a damn thing. Nada...Zilch. But it would have been about a 17-18M sacrifice for Dame. As pointless as it would have been, would that have made you say "look at that, Dame really wants a championship"

would an extension of 50M/year satisfy your objection? That would be Dame sacrificing 20M in 2 years.

I did notice that you failed to explain how giving Dame less money would open up the option for building a contender.
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I guess you missed my part about using it in trades
wizenheimer said:
ok...let's get at it another way since you explicitly said "he wouldn't have taken the super max extension" if he really wanted a championship

do you even know what the difference between a max extension and a super-max extension will be in 2025-26? I sure don't. The cap went up this season more than 11M from last season. Early projections of next season set the cap at 133-134M. The way-early projections of the 2025-26 cap are ranging in the 170-175M range after the new media deals (estimate is the broadcast rights alone will go up from the 24B deal in 2016 to 75B in 2025. And there will be an additional gold mine in streaming rights, including international rights). This assumes no smoothing which the player's union is strongly opposed to

if the cap is 170M, a max salary of 35% of the cap would be 61.3M. Dame will be getting 58.5M, so his "supermax" will actually be less than a max. If the cap is only 160M, his supermax would exceed the max by 2M. Yeah, that 2M should bring in another all-star, seeing as how it would be less than a vet minimum
deal

exactly how much less should Dame have taken, and which player, or at least what level of player would Dame's sacrifice have allowed Portland to acquire....and how exactly

maybe it's easier to apply your theory to last summer. Dame's salary is 42.5M. Portland had no chance at cap-space last summer. So they would have still been left with only the MLE for free agents. Dame making 10%, which would be 4.25M wouldn't have allowed the Blazers to do a damn thing. Nada...Zilch. But it would have been about a 17-18M sacrifice for Dame. As pointless as it would have been, would that have made you say "look at that, Dame really wants a championship"

would an extension of 50M/year satisfy your objection? That would be Dame sacrificing 20M in 2 years.

I did notice that you failed to explain how giving Dame less money would open up the option for building a contender.
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I did reply to that in talking about trades and being able to absorb salary ... all I was saying is he could have easily not taken the super max and given the team so more flexibility in the past and future but that wasn't his priority.
 
Strenuus said:
Blazers win: BLAME DAME FOR NOT GETTING US A PICK.

Blazers lose: DAME TOOK TOO MUCH MONEY AND WE CANT GET HIM HELP. BLAME DAME FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO GET US HELP.

just in case people blaming dame want to see the facts against their illogical takes.
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I don't blame him for anything ... as we've seen time and time again he's great enough to drag a horribly constructed roster to a 6-8 seed and maybe get a first round win but nothing more (aside from the one outlier). It's remarkable how hard he plays night in and night out when so many of his contemporaries are out for 'load management' all the time. I will never waiver though from my desire to see this TEAM win a championship, the individual stuff means a lot less to me than it does others on here. I realize my want is most likely a pipe dream and maybe I should accept the status quo like so many others on here, but it's just not my mindset at this time.
 
bigbailes said:
I did reply to that in talking about trades and being able to absorb salary ... all I was saying is he could have easily not taken the super max and given the team so more flexibility in the past and future but that wasn't his priority.
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again...please explain exactly how the flexibility of Dame taking 5 or 6 million less would make any difference. Unless that is you wanedt him to play/have-played for the MLE there's not enough flexibility to do anything

the flexibility that would have mattered would be not paying Crabbe or Turner anything at all; paying CJ 20M instead of 30M and not holding him untouchable in trades. Not making max offers to Hibbert, Kanter, Greg Monroe, or Chandler Parsons when Portland had max-salary cap-space. Not wasting 7 first round draft picks. Not cheap-screwing scrubs like Hezonja and Tolliver

considering all that, casting any kind of blame at Dame's salary for Portland not being a contender makes no sense at all to me
 
wizenheimer said:
again...please explain exactly how the flexibility of Dame taking 5 or 6 million less would make any difference. Unless that is you wanedt him to play/have-played for the MLE there's not enough flexibility to do anything

the flexibility that would have mattered would be not paying Crabbe or Turner anything at all; paying CJ 20M instead of 30M and not holding him untouchable in trades. Not making max offers to Hibbert, Kanter, Greg Monroe, or Chandler Parsons when Portland had max-salary cap-space. Not wasting 7 first round draft picks. Not cheap-screwing scrubs like Hezonja and Tolliver

considering all that, casting any kind of blame at Dame's salary for Portland not being a contender makes no sense at all to me
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You nailed it. The amount of over-market contracts we've given out to Dame's teammates during this time has been upsetting. Could save that $6m/year in a lot of other places.

Teams would gladly trade for Dame and his contract today. Can't say the same about Nurk. Couldn't have said that about Turner, Powell, Meyers, Crabbe, etc. in the past.
 
gBzECQ6.jpg


Link to his Facebook post.
 
KingSpeed said:
Tweet leaves out that Steph Curry’s loyalty has won him 4 rings and a Finals MVP award. Kobe and Dirk were loyal too.
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But we're Portland. We are a minor league team for others lol that's the group think apparently
 
Strenuus said:
But we're Portland. We are a minor league team for others lol that's the group think apparently
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Minor league team for what others? LA and New York?
Nobody else cares.
People show up in person/on TV to watch the players like Ja Morant, whose team is in a metro area about half the size of Portland's.
I guess that would be a micro league team then.
 
Since the hopes of a playoff push are starting to fade, it's at least nice to fall back on some impressive numbers we're seeing out of Dame -

Dame is currently #66 in the NBA/ABA Career Scoring ranks. He's only 89 points behind Gail Goodrich (will that be 2 more games?), and only 19,358 points behind LeBron (Hard to imagine that James has more than twice as many career points as Dame, wow.).

upload_2023-3-2_12-6-13.png

Lillard is #6 in the NBA/ABA Career 3 Pointers made ranks.

upload_2023-3-2_12-8-15.png

And, of course, I have to post this chart again -

upload_2023-3-2_15-52-8.png

Geoff Petrie held the scoring record from 2/23/1971 to 4/8/2017. 12,401 days (33 yrs, 348 days)
Damon Stoudamire held the scoring record from 1/14/2005 to 4/8/2017. 4,480 days (12 yrs, 97 days)
Damion Lillard has held the scoring record since 4/8/2017. So far - 2,161 days (5 years, 335 days)

Will Lillard's scoring record hold up for as long as Petrie's did?
 
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42N8Bounce said:
Since the hopes of a playoff push are starting to fade, it's at least nice to fall back on some impressive numbers we're seeing out of Dame -

Dame is currently #66 in the NBA/ABA Career Scoring ranks. He's only 89 points behind Gail Goodrich (will that be 2 more games?), and only 19,358 points behind LeBron (Hard to imagine that James has more than twice as many career points as Dame, wow.).

View attachment 54312

Lillard is #6 in the NBA/ABA Career 3 Pointers made ranks.

View attachment 54313

And, of course, I have to post this chart again -

View attachment 54315

Geoff Petrie held the scoring record from 2/23/1971 to 4/8/2017. 12,401 days (33 yrs, 348 days)
Damon Stoudamire held the scoring record from 1/14/2005 to 4/8/2017. 4,480 days (12 yrs, 97 days)
Damion Lillard has held the scoring record since 4/8/2017. So far - 2,161 days (5 years, 335 days)

Will Lillard's scoring record hold up for as long as Petrie's did?
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Didn't CJ score 50 against the Bulls few years ago?
 
42N8Bounce said:
Since the hopes of a playoff push are starting to fade, it's at least nice to fall back on some impressive numbers we're seeing out of Dame -

Dame is currently #66 in the NBA/ABA Career Scoring ranks. He's only 89 points behind Gail Goodrich (will that be 2 more games?), and only 19,358 points behind LeBron (Hard to imagine that James has more than twice as many career points as Dame, wow.).
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He has played in twice as many seasons, I believe.
 
@tykendo @Labinot41 The graph above shows the single-game scoring records. When Roy, Drexler, CJ... scored 50, the record was more than they scored.

Here's a graph that shows all Blazers that scored 50 or more -

upload_2023-3-2_13-59-29.png

Here's the timing of those 50 point games -

upload_2023-3-2_14-0-53.png

Note that when Roy scored 52 on 12/18/2008, Stoudamire held the scoring record of 54 set on 1/14/05. Yellow on this chart shows when the single-game record was set.

upload_2023-3-2_14-10-33.png
 
42N8Bounce said:
@tykendo @Labinot41 The graph above shows the single-game scoring records. When Roy, Drexler, CJ... scored 50, the record was more than they scored.

Here's a graph that shows all Blazers that scored 50 or more -

View attachment 54344

Here's the timing of those 50 point games -

View attachment 54347

Note that when Roy scored 52 on 12/18/2008, Stoudamire held the scoring record of 54 set on 1/14/05. Yellow on this chart shows when the single-game record was set.

View attachment 54357
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Nice work. Bravo! for putting the graph together.
 
Here's a look at all of the 60+ point games since 1985:

upload_2023-3-2_16-34-16.png

Michael Jordan had 4.
Kobe Bryant had 6.
James Harden has/had 4.
Damian Lillard has 5, and counting...
 
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The points are incredible as a personal accomplishment. Few players in the the history of the NBA have accomplished what we here get to see as local fans. Wilt's 100 point game wasn't even on TV, see we are very lucky as fans to have the access, and have a personal tie to such amazing performances. As a fan, I just wish those points converted into more post-season success. It's nice, but players with rings wouldn't trade any of those rings for a mega game performance and I imagine Dame would trade them all for a ring.
 
TBpup said:
The points are incredible as a personal accomplishment. Few players in the the history of the NBA have accomplished what we here get to see as local fans. Wilt's 100 point game wasn't even on TV, see we are very lucky as fans to have the access, and have a personal tie to such amazing performances. As a fan, I just wish those points converted into more post-season success. It's nice, but players with rings wouldn't trade any of those rings for a mega game performance and I imagine Dame would trade them all for a ring.
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I disagree with this take, at least the way you worded it. Teams win championships. The end-of-the-bench rookie or over-the-hill vet gets the same ring as the Finals MVP. Nobody is going to remember those guys for winning a title. I bet many of them would trade a ring that they had little involvement in earning for a record book season like Dame is putting up. The Blazers management’s inability, at least to this point, to surround him with quality talent is their failing, not Dame’s.
 
tykendo said:
That graph doesn't show CJ's 50, or Dame's many 50's.
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the graph was tracking the Blazer single game scoring record thru time. When CJ scored 50 points two other Blazers had scored 50 in a game, and 7 times before CJ, Blazers had scored more than 50

it was 32 years after Petrie had scored 51 in a game (twice) that Damon finally broke Petrie's record with 54. 12 years after that Dame broke Damon's record by scoring 59.
 
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